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Thread: Dawes valve, egr block for a dummy with a crd

  1. #11
    Patrol Guru rottodiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
    Look, laws of physics apply, you'll need to lower the boost to be able to feed exhaust gases back in to intake. Low boost equals high EGTs = bad news for diesel engine. Yes, ZD30 CrD engines are much better at handling higher EGTs than Di but that doesn't mean that it is good for them in the long term.
    CrD control system is much more sophisticated than primitive/rudimentary Di control. Boost of 18 psi is normal on CrDs.
    CrD not only uses MAF but also MAP and MAT to correctly calculate optimal AFR. (not really doing a great job there though)
    Again that doesn't mean Jack if you are feeding crap down your intake mixing it with oil vapor from crankcase ventilation layering the intake manifold and restricting the airflow.
    This has consequences in reduced engine life and increased maintenance costs including fuel consumption. So if you are planning to keep Patrol for 4 years (or while under warranty) max on lease like plan than don't bother fiddling EGR, Dawes, boost control EGTs what not.

    Current emission control tech punishes you the consumer with higher costs and reduced reliability. Basically car makers are making it your problem while handsomely profiting from it by selling you crap cheap technology which makes you to fork out more and more often. Its a win for them and oil companies because these techs also increase fuel consumption.

    You want to effectively reduce emissions you need to reduce fuel consumption. You will reduce it by making the engines more efficient and powerful at the same time while reducing their size.
    So variable camshaft timings or even camless engines, variable hybrid turbo compound chargers, cylinder switching off technologies, water injection etc.
    Instead of outdated technology which costs users fortune like DPF, SCR, EGR, AHI and whatever these assholes would do anything but making better efficient engines.
    Did you know that common rail diesel injection patent was applied for in 1911. It took 80+ years before we started using that technology, for Nissan even longer they started putting that tech in their ZD30s in 2007

    Its your choice. There is no point for Dawes valve alone on CrD. ECU has the boost under control quite well. There is a point for Dawes and needle valve if you want better torque down low, improve power delivery and tractability.
    Would I do it on mine if it was CrD, hell yeah. The difference is phenomenal on Di so it will be even better on CrD me thinks I'd at least try for the cost of it. ($150)
    Have you ever wondered why CrD has the same power and torque output as Di. It makes no sense when D40 2.5L (Navara) has more power and torque than 3.0L.
    Wow.. Some great info, I do t really understand how to use the needle valve, do you have to continually adjust it, does it just boost at the same psi all the time? How does the needle valve actually work.... I am pretty keen to give it a go..
    Thanks again
    Scotty

  2. #12
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    Bloody hell. This Rumcajs bloke just answered a crate of questions I've been pondering for a long time, in a single shot! You seem to know your stuff mate ... First time I've ever seen a bloke here, use a graph to prove a point. And it absolutely made sense. Hats off to you buddy.

    I've got my gauges fitted a week ago, so I'm monitoring what the engine is doing, before I apply the NADS. I've scored the whole CRD Nads kit from Mudski a while back, but really haven't had time to toy around with it till now. My trol needs it now more than ever, especially after fitting the 33's.
    I think I'll bite the bullet and give the dawes, and needle valves a shot sometime this weekend or the week after. My plan of attack is to, fit the valves, adjust to suit, and then later on blank the EGR just to see what difference it makes.

    I'll be honest and say that all in all, I haven't got a bloody clue what I'm doing. I've got a general idea of the principle of the dawes and needle, how it works before and after. And all that was learnt through threads here and a informative chat with Mudski when I picked up the bits.
    But there is an in-experienced , un-educated side of me when it comes to "under the hood" kind of stuff in these CRD's that's got me just a tad concerned. I'm approaching this with a "what if this and what if that" attitude. Put it this way I'm yet to even have a look for and trace the vacuum lines needed for the task ahead.

    But hey you only live once, onwards and upwards. lol
    2005 TD42TI

  3. #13
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    There is no need to keep adjusting it (needle valve) constantly unless you are one of those types who keep constantly fiddling, never happy. Mine is fitted under bonnet is now almost fully close because I use dual stage boost control as well.
    Essentially needle valve is continuously bleeding waste gate like control for the VNT actuator. The valve allows vacuum (its being used to open the vanes up) to be bled off so vanes are backing off thus reducing the rate of turbo spool up. So more vacuum is bled the less are the vanes open the slower the turbo spool up in simple terms.
    Basically you are turning your variable geometry turbo charger into fixed geometry with added bonus of having very fast spool up indeed much faster than you would on fixed geometry turbo. Once predetermined boost is reached Dawes is than dumping vacuum backing the vanes off and that in turn slows the turbo charger down reducing boost. That's basically it really simple rudimentary device. I admit power is great but fuel consumption can also increase especially cruising at higher boost hence I have dual stage boost control with two Dawes one set at max 11 psi and one set at 18 psi. Have the control both automated via accelerator pedal position and voltage switch as well as having manual overide to choose what mode low/high. Great fun. These gems are really of the Patrol4x4 guru Chaz's invention I think he deserves all the credit.
    I'd preferred programmable PWM controller utilizing existing boost solenoid which would allow even better control but this is so far working and is simple.
    You could technically do away without needle valve but it is a piece of mind to have some sort of a spool up control otherwise compressor surge might occur.
    The reason why some people fiddle with needle valve in the cab is so they can adjust the spool rate depending on conditions like towing etc. I was happy to get right compromise between spool rate vs safety and basically it was set and forget type.
    Last edited by Rumcajs; 17th December 2013 at 09:05 PM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Rumcajs For This Useful Post:

    rottodiver (17th December 2013)

  5. #14
    The master farter mudski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post

    Its your choice. There is no point for Dawes valve alone on CrD. ECU has the boost under control quite well. There is a point for Dawes and needle valve if you want better torque down low, improve power delivery and tractability.
    Would I do it on mine if it was CrD, hell yeah. The difference is phenomenal on Di so it will be even better on CrD me thinks I'd at least try for the cost of it. ($150)
    Have you ever wondered why CrD has the same power and torque output as Di. It makes no sense when D40 2.5L (Navara) has more power and torque than 3.0L.
    True dat...
    As for the EGR, all EGR's on diesels need to be blocked. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    Bloody hell. This Rumcajs bloke just answered a crate of questions I've been pondering for a long time, in a single shot! You seem to know your stuff mate ... First time I've ever seen a bloke here, use a graph to prove a point. And it absolutely made sense. Hats off to you buddy.

    I've got my gauges fitted a week ago, so I'm monitoring what the engine is doing, before I apply the NADS. I've scored the whole CRD Nads kit from Mudski a while back, but really haven't had time to toy around with it till now. My trol needs it now more than ever, especially after fitting the 33's.
    I think I'll bite the bullet and give the dawes, and needle valves a shot sometime this weekend or the week after. My plan of attack is to, fit the valves, adjust to suit, and then later on blank the EGR just to see what difference it makes.

    I'll be honest and say that all in all, I haven't got a bloody clue what I'm doing. I've got a general idea of the principle of the dawes and needle, how it works before and after. And all that was learnt through threads here and a informative chat with Mudski when I picked up the bits.
    But there is an in-experienced , un-educated side of me when it comes to "under the hood" kind of stuff in these CRD's that's got me just a tad concerned. I'm approaching this with a "what if this and what if that" attitude. Put it this way I'm yet to even have a look for and trace the vacuum lines needed for the task ahead.

    But hey you only live once, onwards and upwards. lol
    You still got my number mate? Give me a ring if you get stuck bud. A coupla beers and we'll have here done...

  6. #15
    Patrol Guru rottodiver's Avatar
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    Needle valve on its way, expressed, should have it by end of week or early next....

    Scotty

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    Hi rottodiver, Yes i have a Roo systems chip & 3' exhaust, I have just fitted a cross country intercooler and fan today, I do a lot of towing with the camper and the egt was hitting 650 degrees up hill and on the beach .

    Quote Originally Posted by rottodiver View Post
    Thanks jimbo,
    Do have have a chip and exhaust upgrade( I run a 3 inch exhaust and tunit chip) or Dawes
    Scotty

  8. #17
    Patrol Guru rottodiver's Avatar
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    Ok egr is now blocked, to be honest I didn't really notice much difference in egt but I did notice the turbo boost is a little erratic now, this will hopefully be fixed when my needle valve arrives, hopefully tomorrow.
    Scotty

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to rottodiver For This Useful Post:

    93patrol (22nd December 2013)

  10. #18
    Legendary 93patrol's Avatar
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    i am glad you asked the question Scotty because there is alot of fantastic info here that just blows my mind and can help if i ever need to give Fry a hand to fit his when he gets it

  11. #19
    Patrol Guru rottodiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottodiver View Post
    Ok egr is now blocked, to be honest I didn't really notice much difference in egt but I did notice the turbo boost is a little erratic now, this will hopefully be fixed when my needle valve arrives, hopefully tomorrow.
    Scotty
    Ok, needle valve is here..... I am trying to work out the instal of this.....
    On the solenoid with the 3 hoses it looks I remove all the vacuum hoses from that solenoid.. Is this correct?

    Scotty

  12. #20
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    Yes. Use short loop to connect between two of the ports and block the third with another short hose and small screw jammed in the other end of the hose.
    The hose from solenoid which is going to resonator box (under the solenoid) will connect to outlet on the needle valve. vacuum hose coming from the pump needs to "T" pieced in to VNT line with Dawes and needle valve.
    Cheers
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    Last edited by Rumcajs; 23rd December 2013 at 08:15 PM.

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