Here they go again

[snicko]

Hey Nowoolies when they tried to ban bull bars 4x4 Action had a draft protest Email made and all members filled it in and sent it. I as well sent a personal Email saying that the bull bar on my truck saved our lives so you could do the same with your experience.

[the evil twin]

IN MY OPINION 4WD Action are the biggest pack of inflammatory critics in Australia when it comes to this sort of issue. Their previous input in 2010 at all levels was obstructionist, negative and extremely detrimental to reasoned debate and consultation by peak bodies with Government.

Personally I have no issue with the National Code of Practice (NCOP), VSB 14. If VSI 50 (which is NSW specific) is aligned with the NCOP then that is what the previous 'fight' in 2010 was about when the proposals were going to be tighter than the NCOP. The 4WD fraternity won that round.

50mm increase in track lets you run up to 305's, 50mm tyres lets you run 33's etc etc.

There are solid engineering principles that need to be addressed behind anything much over those parameters such as degraded braking efficiency and massively increased stress to suspension components before any sane person lets vehicles on the road with Joe Public.

Bottom line... if VSI 50 is no tighter than the NCOP then what is the problem, it is just 4WD Action beating their meat and crying 'look at me, look at me'. If VSI 50 is tighter then reasoned debate from a united group of representatives will win again.

[patch697]

Sorry i was late.......

Hmmmm? There is some really good debate here and i thank Plas for some quality realism, not sure i agree with it all but your opinions are real world mate and full of credibility.

I was pleased when i clicked on the vid link in the first post and saw that 4wd action where getting political again but blown away when they started ranting about compulsory Unionism?? WTF are they thinking. Bloody amateurs. If 4wd action believe their campaign strength is to put active members of the educated 4wd community off side (Club members) then we should all retire now and start burning books (magazines more like it) Just madness. The easiest way to win a war is to divide and conquer! Hello!!!

Lets drop the internal politics, its crap and aimed poorly. If this is to be battled then "the People United will Never be Defeated" A club full of splinters breaks easily.

No doubt there is some short comings with 4wdNSW as there is with 4wd VIC, I have a very big problem with these organisations and their lack of real support for members on the ground. I am an active club member at a Committee level and been on the executive for many years and struggle to see any real benefit in remaining a member of 4wd Vic. I will battle that in private though and / or at another time, that has NOTHING to do with the fight over VSI-50. Why has membership to a club become the primary football in this campaign?? Speechless.

I dont necessarily have a problem with the fundamental objective of something like VSI-50, its problem is that it is trying to do too much! its primary aim was to deal with the ricers and the hoons running tubbed and bagged Civics with sparks flying off them running on bump stops and cut down springs fully sik! So Write it already!!! Get it out there!! The original draft though stated 2inch difference and did not consider lowered or raised and caught our group in the wash. If it defined its intent early then we all would have walked away and been happy and the laws would be functioning.

If the legislators want to deal with the 4WD community then be specific and lets talk turkey. Let them come to the table and be educated by us about what it is that WE do with our cars, Why we want the modifications that we do, Why we need them and where we take them. I cant imagine a single person sitting at the legislative table that would even know that you can buy a 35 inch tyre for a land cruiser! and What we would do with that?? Then the fact that a 4 inch lift is needed to safely run a tyre that size and that we have an expectation that our cars handle as well or better on our "Upgraded" suspension and tyre package would be unimaginable to most. What part of that well thought out, well researched, highly developed modification makes me a Hoon??

Why is it that the Legislative restrictions make it oppressively expensive to have my vehicle Engineered with its current spec yet my setup is commercially available to anyone?? Why can the Legislators sit there and make a blanket ban on the most common of 4wd modifications when investing in some ADR testing of some select improvements may support local industry and open the way for quality well developed modifications to be done within the rules. Most of the cowboys would disappear. I have no time for cowboys, they give us all a bad name.

How can the blanket bans be rolled out without the decision makers having any real concept as to why we would want or need to run a 35 inch tyre?? The bottom line for most is the lift is installed to allow for a selected tyre size, most commonly 35s. I'd be happy to take a car load of legislators up into the high country in my GUIV with a 3' lift and 35s and show them why it is a perfect yet illegal setup. It would be interesting to hear from them, after the drive, explain to me how even the highest qualified Engineer will NOT sign off on a set of 35s!!!

a 35 inch tyre in the high country shale and rock steps is the king! Safety is paramount and my 35s are choice for getting to the top safely with my family.

Split it up. Get VSI-50 out there for the Ricers. Sort that sh1t out!

Write a New 4WD specific Legislation. get educated, do the research, consult our community, we are the user group. Consultation and Consideration will engage cooperation and compliance. Liberate the legislation and liberate the Engineers and allow us to pursue a safe, well educated sport supported by a local manufacturing industry committed to Worlds best practice products.

It aint that hard!!

MR..... I just love your work.....Thanks mate

[TuffTD42]

I like how the do-gooders (sorry don't know what else to call em on the family rated forum) say 35's aren't safe because they place to much stress on certain mechanical components. Anything above a 2" lift & your rig WILL topple over, disconnecting sway-bars is dangerous blah blah blah.

Aren't Patrol's over engineered? Well from the Gq onwards. I remember reading it several times over the years in a few different places. Nissan had reliability probs with mq/mk patrols so they went all out with the new gen GQ it was over engineered I think the words were.

The case maybe the same for Landcruiser's, maybe earlier patrols had strong enough wheel bearings etc to handle 35's.

Dose anyone actually know what stresses a gq etc can handle in tyre size before it is unsafe? Every make/model will be different!

I am more than happy to take these desk jocky's for a ride in my gq. The front sway-bar is gone the rear has disconnects & it sits on 6' springs & 35's. I have travelled from home to Brisbane return 2500klms many times with out any accidents. It gets used as a daily vehicle & is quite capable off road. It stops, steers & dose everything it did before the mods without any drama's.

I think a system should be introduced that takes into account the make & model of vehicle. For example I can't see any problems with a GQ/GU patrol or 80/100 series running 4" springs & 35's. How many get around now with out incident. Then say a suzuki may be able to run a max of 2' lift & 31's. I think this would be a much more commonsense & fair set of rules than to just blanket the lot with 2" suspension & 50mm in tyres.

What about the driver? I wouldn't have a problem with having to sit a test, & do a driving test also to prove that I am capable of driving my modified 4wd. Put that class on your license. I drive semi's/rigid's etc for a living. I had to sit a test & do a driving test to prove I could drive one, that I was aware of it's braking & handling capabilities.

How about P platers? Only allowed a 2' lift & 32's for example. They brought in the laws to stop them from driving turbo'd or v8 performance vehicles. I didn't see the Do-gooders banning v8's etc.

This VSB14/VSI50 is just a bunch of hypocritical b#@@sh$#! how can I get my GQ engineered & the government/do-gooders agree it's safe now all of a sudden it's not.

It's plain to see that the 4wd association has done a back door deal. I won't get started on them, but I for one will never give them any of my hard earned.

Just my Opinion. It is not aimed or intended to upset anyone on here or with any other model Patrol Or other make/model of 4wd.

Cheers jono.

[Finly Owner]

Remember people "4WD Action" is a magazine that makes lots of money from advertisers! Whom advertise Lifting kits and BIG Tyres. enough said I think........................

Tim

[NissanGQ4.2]

Remember people "4WD Action" is a magazine that makes lots of money from advertisers! Whom advertise Lifting kits and BIG Tyres. enough said I think........................

Tim

very true Tim, Very true. Imagine the amount of money they would loose from advertising

[Sir Roofy]

very true tim, very true. Imagine the amount of money they would loose from advertising

at what they charge for kits and things they,l be broke in a week

the 3 big names would be hurting real bad

[patch697]

Morning all.......

As you all know, we (the forum admin) respect everyone's opinions here, in fact we welcome & encourage them. The forums knowledge base is astonishing to say the least & the posts put forward in this thread is a clear testament to the passionate & informative views shared by many.

However I would like to remind everyone that we all need to ban together, 4x4 enthusiasts, 4x4 clubs, 4x4 organizations, 4x4 business's & 4x4 promoters alike If we wish to make a difference here, so lets all please keep the objective in prospective.

Regards
Paul.

[XTC]

Over the last few days I've seen many threads (similar to this one) on this topic appear on most of the 4x4 forums, all it would seem inspired by the one newsleter from the Editor of the 4WD Action magazine. Does anyone have any real information on the progress of this proposed legislation?

I still haven't seen any sort of group action which we can take to voice our dislike for the proposed legislation. Is there any group action which we can partake in drafted yet?

[the evil twin]

I'm with XTC on this.

First off we should remember that VSI 50 is NSW only and whilst it is best to all band together and not leave our brothers in one State to duke it out alone the more important thing is this... has anyone seen any reliable reference from any source other than 4WD Action.

I haven't as yet and I have been looking everywhere. As prev posted, the only references I can find all stem from that 4WD Action Email.

I don't trust 4Wd Action from first hand experience but happy to acknowledge they are first to break this news IF they are right