Here they go again

[Bigrig]

The biggest killer of young men in australia is suicide!
Bugger all money being put into that.
(slightly off track, i know)

Good point though mate!!!

[Bigrig]

Scotty, I love difference of opinion and intelligent debate, that's what makes us superior to monkeys. First let me respond to this post then I'll get to your next one.

Personally I don't think this quoted post is one of your best mate, you're much more intelligent than that.

"What's next?? No more than 75mm when love making to control unsafe sex practices??"

Sorry I fail to see the relevance of this quote to the topic at hand.

"I absolutely LOATHE these people for what they truly are - beaurocratic, hypocritic, ignorant, one eyed, self serving, bottom feeders with nothing better to do than take care of one, and only one, government policy - the "Protect My Own Job" policy ..."

Not sure what facts this is based on. Presume this is an off-the-cuff emotional response. Let's try to keep emotions out of the debate and concentrate on fact.

"Glad all the drug dealers, pedophiles, arms traders, bank robbers, rapists, arsonists, thieves, money launderers, etc are all off the street to give these ludicrously pathetic individuals the time to look into ride heights of 4wd vehicles "

If we waited for this to happen we'd never get on to dealing with any other issue.

"(that opened this country up by the way)"

Before vehicles came on the scene, most of this country was opened up by horse, camel, bullocks, etc. When mechanisation took over the country was opened up by steam train and STANDARD vehciles most notably standard issue Land Rovers as used by Len Beadell running standard suspension on 29" tyres (if that). Read some of the things he did in his LR's and your eyes will boggle.

"Lord, I could go on for hours ... as most of you know!!!! lmao"

And that's why we love you mate!

Please don't take this wrong, I'm absolutely not trying to degrade you here, just putting up (hopefully) a considered difference of opinion.

PS: I don't work for the government, have no interest in any political party and do not work in law enforcement.

You're spot on mate - I am much more intelligent than that ... and that's why I'll leave the conversation at that. Emotion guides every decision we make, including what to, and what not to post ...

No offence taken at all boss - fully appreciate everyone's opinion.

[Benno7]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone. But the fact is we don't need any more laws restricting us with what we can and cant do with our 4wds because where will it end!
So lets all band together and try our best to stop any law affecting us and our 4wds.
If this law comes in there is no point of going "this law new law is crap" if you did nothing about try to stop it.

[Ade]

Cigarettes kill more people every week than serious crash related 4wd accidents, and even with the arbitrary measures that have been out in place, millions continue to smoke - and the reason the government doesn't illegalise smoking (like it's suggesting for 35" tyres as an example)?? Go on .... you know the answer ...

Money!!

You are so true mate..

[Finly Owner]

So I understand all that has been said above, But;

Aren't we all wanting to educate all 4WDers how to Drive, Respect, Recover, and Survive SAFELY? So how is being told to belong to a club and do a Driver Awareness Program so bad?

And as for it being another cost(BILL even ) , How much are those 35's worth? and all those lift components?

And how many people are lifting and removing sway bars totally? Making a very unstable 4WD!

Agreed there are unraodworhty vehicles that are standard on the road that need attention, Mine is one of them! I'm not pointing fingers, and, I agree we need to make sure the rules are fair. But as said, I'm sure we need a line in the sand, so we know where unlimited road use ends and strictly off road begins.

If they made no rules, we would have people trying to drive monster trucks on the black top! Don't laugh, we have idiots who would try it on, just look at some of the illegal lifts getting around in your area.

I will put my name to the protest purely to show the pen pushers we won't take everything they throw at us! BUT, 4WD Action needs to stop scaremongering!

Tim

[Ade]

Life $ucks..we also do have these kinda of experience here, but still very2 little.

[taslucas]

Yeah I'll leave it at that too. All I'm trying to do here is think about the basic issue at hand and make my own considered opinions. Why is this legislation being considered? Is there a conspirasory happening here? Who will it detrimentally affect? Who will it benefit? Try to look at the pros and cons of the argument and come to an opinion after all these have been though about.

If people have different opinions to me that's OK, I'm not a preacher and I don't want to change anyones opinion, as long as they're considered opinions.

Peace out!

Your right tho mate. Im sure theres no massive conspiracy targeting anyone specifically and yeah, we have to think about why its done not who its trying to hurt. PS im close to legal height now but would love to go bigger......might have to make a trailer buggy.

[MudRunnerTD]

Sorry i was late.......

Hmmmm? There is some really good debate here and i thank Plas for some quality realism, not sure i agree with it all but your opinions are real world mate and full of credibility.

I was pleased when i clicked on the vid link in the first post and saw that 4wd action where getting political again but blown away when they started ranting about compulsory Unionism?? WTF are they thinking. Bloody amateurs. If 4wd action believe their campaign strength is to put active members of the educated 4wd community off side (Club members) then we should all retire now and start burning books (magazines more like it) Just madness. The easiest way to win a war is to divide and conquer! Hello!!!

Lets drop the internal politics, its crap and aimed poorly. If this is to be battled then "the People United will Never be Defeated" A club full of splinters breaks easily.

No doubt there is some short comings with 4wdNSW as there is with 4wd VIC, I have a very big problem with these organisations and their lack of real support for members on the ground. I am an active club member at a Committee level and been on the executive for many years and struggle to see any real benefit in remaining a member of 4wd Vic. I will battle that in private though and / or at another time, that has NOTHING to do with the fight over VSI-50. Why has membership to a club become the primary football in this campaign?? Speechless.

I dont necessarily have a problem with the fundamental objective of something like VSI-50, its problem is that it is trying to do too much! its primary aim was to deal with the ricers and the hoons running tubbed and bagged Civics with sparks flying off them running on bump stops and cut down springs fully sik! So Write it already!!! Get it out there!! The original draft though stated 2inch difference and did not consider lowered or raised and caught our group in the wash. If it defined its intent early then we all would have walked away and been happy and the laws would be functioning.

If the legislators want to deal with the 4WD community then be specific and lets talk turkey. Let them come to the table and be educated by us about what it is that WE do with our cars, Why we want the modifications that we do, Why we need them and where we take them. I cant imagine a single person sitting at the legislative table that would even know that you can buy a 35 inch tyre for a land cruiser! and What we would do with that?? Then the fact that a 4 inch lift is needed to safely run a tyre that size and that we have an expectation that our cars handle as well or better on our "Upgraded" suspension and tyre package would be unimaginable to most. What part of that well thought out, well researched, highly developed modification makes me a Hoon??

Why is it that the Legislative restrictions make it oppressively expensive to have my vehicle Engineered with its current spec yet my setup is commercially available to anyone?? Why can the Legislators sit there and make a blanket ban on the most common of 4wd modifications when investing in some ADR testing of some select improvements may support local industry and open the way for quality well developed modifications to be done within the rules. Most of the cowboys would disappear. I have no time for cowboys, they give us all a bad name.

How can the blanket bans be rolled out without the decision makers having any real concept as to why we would want or need to run a 35 inch tyre?? The bottom line for most is the lift is installed to allow for a selected tyre size, most commonly 35s. I'd be happy to take a car load of legislators up into the high country in my GUIV with a 3' lift and 35s and show them why it is a perfect yet illegal setup. It would be interesting to hear from them, after the drive, explain to me how even the highest qualified Engineer will NOT sign off on a set of 35s!!!

a 35 inch tyre in the high country shale and rock steps is the king! Safety is paramount and my 35s are choice for getting to the top safely with my family.

Split it up. Get VSI-50 out there for the Ricers. Sort that sh1t out!

Write a New 4WD specific Legislation. get educated, do the research, consult our community, we are the user group. Consultation and Consideration will engage cooperation and compliance. Liberate the legislation and liberate the Engineers and allow us to pursue a safe, well educated sport supported by a local manufacturing industry committed to Worlds best practice products.

It aint that hard!!

[nowoolies]

well this is not what i wanted to have with my coffee this morning

[nowoolies]

Here's the new VSi50 Draft

The second last page has some info on examptions

and reading this has just curdled the milk in my cold coffee sheeeeeeiiittttttttt...............what a bunch of tossers !!!!!!

what about the money we inject in the country the jobs this spending creates
the extra safety features we achive to our vehicles

this sounds very much like the fools who prance around schools saying its only 4x4`s that run all the kids over at school crossing`s

when i collided with a cow a couple of years back ........IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE THAT SAVED MY ASS
anything smaller of a vehicle or lower in height i would`nt be here
and that comes from 4 differant surgeons and my family doctor.
i m gunna stop before i get too carried away