ZD30 Grenade question

[the ferret]

Aaaah! I should have picked that up. Bit tired, brains in dumb arse mode.

So will ya bank balance if you fail to research fully, the best ways to preserve your motor, Mr Nissan doesn't give a pork pie what it can cost you.
The guys on here do tho.

[YNOT]

Good question really. I am much in the same boat. Mine has done 200,000km's. I have read the preventative mods document but am still unsure. Although I know the MAF sensor is the issue, how do you know if it has been changed or not. I was thinking I would do the three main preventative options of a Snorkle, Turbo timer, and I guess change out the MAF sensor just in case...still a little unsure though. And confused.

The first things I would be doing are boost and pyro guages. Have you read this thread; http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ghlight=gren02

Tony

[the godfather]

Sweet, thanks Tony. I will jump onto that this weekend.

[OldSkeptic]

Basic common sense would say that at 200,000km you must be doing something right and I'd just keep on doing it.

I tend to think this 'grenade' thing is a bit overblown, tending towards urban myth level.

Now this is a 3ltr engine running at 1atm boost, so it is a quite (for 4wds) highly boosted engine. Therefore looking after it, by good oil and changes, servicing, turbo management, etc goes without saying. Hey I had 2 WRXs, if you were an idiot you go blow that engine to all hell real fast. Look after it and it would last for ages. Similar for the 3D.

I have a friend, with a brand new GU 3.0D and he is now, from reading too many forums, paranoid about his engine. I keep emphasising a bit of common sense.

[the ferret]

I assure you my friend, it's no myth.
An oil change and filters once a week and driving like a Nanna is not going to stop the buildup of crap in the inlet manifold, around the valves and their guides, the intercooler and the ring bypass of carbon and bits of rust from the exhaust.
There are other things that contribute to premature engine failure, the NADS system is a proven system, but please yourself, it's your car after all.
If your friend has a new 3.0L, it's not a ZD30DI, so he shouldn't be paranoid about his engine blowing up.
There are life saving mods for those too, not as serious as for the ZD 30 DI.
The ZD 30 's reputation speaks for itself, don't just take my word for it. Scroll back to ynots post, page 12 and have a read of the link, You can take Tony's word as Gospel
Regards Rod.

PS, you can NEVER gleen too much info from a forum, most of it's there to help those un informed.
I would read this too!
One of the major causes of early build ZD30 engine failures was PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) oil vapours travelling back up the inlet ducting after engine shut down. This oil mist coats eventually coats the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor causing it to send false readings to the engine computer. It is these false readings from the MAF sensor that often results in the engine over fueling and melting pistons. This is what people refer to as "grenading"
If you have a exhaust gas temperature (EGT or pyro) sensor you will see the temperature rise well above the 550 degrees C (post turbo) recommended maximum, the reason why pyro gauges are so important.

Regular cleaning of the MAF sensor will slow this process down but the best fix is to combine the pyro gauge and MAF sensor cleaning with a catch can or PCV filter. These filter out and collect the oil mist and stop it from coating the sensor.

Blocking the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) also helps, although it is illegal as you are tampering with an emmissions control device.
The carbon from the recirculated exhaust gases can build up in the inlet system over time and restrict air flow, again resulting in over fueling.

ZD30's have computer controlled turbo boost but at times it does not do a very good job of controlling the boost. At times it pulls the boost right down to allow the EGR to work (pointless if you have blocked the EGR) and at other times can allow boost spikes well past 20 Psi. Although the boost spikes themselves will not hurt the engine they can damage the intercoolers. The end tanks on the standard intercoolers are crimped on and repeated over boosting can loosen the crimping allowing boost to leak out. You will usually see an oil stain (condensed PCV oil mist) around the ends of the intercooler if they are leaking.
Fitting a Dawes and needle valve set up takes boost control away from the computer and lets you set the maximum boost and spool up rate.


The 2.8 (RD28) engines do not have a reputation or history of grenading like the ZD30 but the same principles apply, fit the boost and pyro gauges to keep an eye on what's happening in the engine, fit a PCV filter/catch can to keep oil mist from coating the MAF sensor, block the EGR. All of this combined will ensure the engine gets the maximum amount of air and keep the EGT's as low as possible.

Tony

[timbar]

damn good read lots if usefull information there good job tony and rod well presented

[Sir Roofy]

damn good read lots if usefull information there good job tony and rod well presented

x2 armed with this info it will make looking for another rig so much easier
as in leaks or new parts on older rigs
cheers

[the ferret]

Thanks Guys, but it is Tony who has done the research and was kind enough to post it up, I just put my bit up and resurected Tony's valuable input.
Cheers Rod.

[YNOT]

Basic common sense would say that at 200,000km you must be doing something right and I'd just keep on doing it.

I tend to think this 'grenade' thing is a bit overblown, tending towards urban myth level.

Now this is a 3ltr engine running at 1atm boost, so it is a quite (for 4wds) highly boosted engine. Therefore looking after it, by good oil and changes, servicing, turbo management, etc goes without saying. Hey I had 2 WRXs, if you were an idiot you go blow that engine to all hell real fast. Look after it and it would last for ages. Similar for the 3D.

I have a friend, with a brand new GU 3.0D and he is now, from reading too many forums, paranoid about his engine. I keep emphasising a bit of common sense.

Anyone who says the ZD30 grenade thing is overblown tending towards urban myth needs to do more research. You might have had 2 WRX's but have you ever owned a ZD30Di Patrol? I DO.

I did a lot of research and knew about the grenade issue before I got this Patrol. I have seen first hand the carbon build up in the inlet, the oil film that also coats the intake, and the color of the MAF sensor cleaning fluid as it removed the oil residue from the sensor. No my engine has not grenaded, I got it in time.

Regular servicing has nothing to do with the 2000-2003 ZD30Di engine failures, they fail regardless of servicing. Regular servicing does not stop EGR carbon build up in the inlet. Regular servicing does not stop PCV vapours fouling the MAF sensor, regular servicing does nothing for turbo management.
The engine failures referred to as "grenading" are very well documented and easy to find. It took me less than 2 minutes on google to find the 3 examples below. I know personally of several other failures and have seen talk of class actions against Nissan there have been so many failures.

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/vi...hp?f=7&t=36189

patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/zd30-options-27482/

http://198.106.177.4/complaints/upda...y.asp?aid=2397

At 200,000km I would say he is very lucky but in my mind common sense would say at the very least install boost and pyro gauges so you can moniter the engine. The guages obviously won't stop an engine grenading on their own but they will at least give the driver the best chance to react hopefully in time to save the engine from damage.

Cleaning the inlet tract allows the full flow of air into the engine and allows the intercooler to cool more efficiently.

Fitting a PCV filter stops the build up of oil mist in the inlet and more importantly stops the oil mist coating the MAF sensor. A clean MAF sensor reads more accurately and therefore sends the right signals to the ECU.

Blocking the EGR (yes I'm aware that's illegal) stops the build up of carbon in the inlet. The build up of carbon can have a major effect on the air flow into the engine.

Unlike petrol engines (like the EJ20T) diesels run hot (exhaust emperatures) when they run rich. An inefficient intercooler and restricted airflow into the engine will cause the ZD30 to run rich. Combine that with a MAF sensor that is sending corrupted signals to the ECU because it's coated in oil and you have all the ingredients for a spectacular engine failure as MANY have found out. And they go off without any warning.
Fact or paranoia, you decide.

If your mate has a brand new 3.0D it will be a CRD engine which is not affected by the grenading issues.

Tony

NOTE: DIRECT LINK HAS BEEN REMOVED TO PATROL4X4 DUE TO PATROL4X4's VIRUS PROBLEMS, ENTERING THE ABOVE LINK INTO YOUR BROWSER YOU DO AT YOUR OWN RISK

KIND REGARDS

FORUM MANAGEMENT

[the ferret]

So there!!! stick that in ya pipe an smoke it all you un believers, God has spoken, who knows?
Tony knows.