New flag design.

[Steve4wdin]

1. I don't like that flag & agree it looks 'cartoon'ish.

2. I think it is past time that we dropped the Union Jack from our flag.

3. I think it is past time that we should acknowledge indigenous Australians on our flag.

4. Although I don't expect all to agree, or even like me saying..... But I have little doubt that some of the views expressed represent a disguised racism.

5. In the 25 years I have lived in Australia (Australian citizen for 23) I have witnessed a change in the meaning of Australia Day to many, particularly the younger generations. Whilst patriotism is something I believe is worthy of respect & encouragement, it distresses me to see a growing confusion between patriotism & racism. Whilst any criticism of the type of attitudes characterized by the "If you don't love it, leave it" is hard to have heard by those who believe they are simply being patriotic, such jingoistic attitudes are no doubt racist. When mobs wave our national flag as a means of proclaiming exclusiveness, rather than inclusiveness every Australia Day it has a dirty & unhealthy feel to it. I don't believe that this is what our diggers, including our indigenous diggers, fought for.

Ok, flameproof suit donne

Cuppa,
I don`t mean to offend when I say like or leave. Yes I am racist. I am proud to be an aussie. You should be as well as you are. You and I have equal rights as do all others. Thats what our ancesters fort for.
Leave our heritage alone.

[Cuppa]

Hi Bigrig, I don't think we are really too far apart in how we see things.

To clarify, I didn't ( & don't) suggest that the current aboriginal flag should be incorporated into the current Australian flag.

You wrote "that (aboriginal) flag created a unity and nationalistic totem for the indigenous and whilst the vast majority accept openly they're Aussies, they have a deep seeded respect for their own culture and heritage and probably don't want the two flags incorporated" which I think is very much the case. However I do think that when the day comes that this countries indigenous folks are recognised on our national flag in some way, & the Union Jack removed, it will demonstrate that we as a nation have finally grown up. We are a relatively young nation, & I see us as still struggling through 'adolescence'. I make no suggestion as to what the Australian flag should look like, other than it should incorporate our past, be inclusive of our indigenous culture & be a design that brings all Australians together. I acknowledge that this is a big ask, but if possible would as I suggest, demonstrate to all of us that we have, as a nation, come of age.

One part of your post that I admit made me cringe, was your reference to 'full blood'. I say this without criticism because I recognise that such distinction may be made by some aboriginals themselves, & that for me to criticise this may simply be perceived as 'political correctness'. There may even be an element of truth in such criticism. However by making such distinctions, whoever make them, IMO only serves to sow the seeds of exclusion, which never helps.

As an aside, related but not strictly speaking 'on topic':

One thing about living in Australia which disappointed me for many years was how difficult it was to mix with, & get to know any aboriginal folk, & in particular to access their culture & world views (as opposed to those I saw professionally who were generally struggling with a 'white' existence & the fallout of the stolen generations. These folk frequently also found access to their own culture difficult. It seems that often the black & white culture just exists side by side without a great deal of mixing or understanding or desire to.

Things like the aboriginal flag, the tent embassy & more recently 'the apology' have helped to add strength to a failing culture by creating a needed sense of belonging.
Of course these are the sort of things most often attacked/ridiculed by the critics whose own views are more important than anything else.

It has always been my belief that each culture has a great deal to learn from the other, without preconceived expectation of change. In 2009 I was fortunate enough to walk the Lurijarri Trail with the Goolarabooloo, north of Broome, & subsequently spend a couple of months camped in their country, fishing, walking & yarning around the fire with one of their law bosses on a daily basis. I can't pretend that much of what I learned during that time gelled into a solid understanding (such complexity would take a lifetime), but it did give a first hand experience of traditional culture in modern times, & a picture of aboriginal life that was very different to that commonly spread through the white community. I only mention this to let it be known that I am not just speaking from an ignorant politically correct stance.

Of course racism is not just about aboriginal folk. The Aussie flag waving at the Cronulla riots & similar behaviours were also in my mind when making my previous post.

Cuppa

[threedogs]

Isn't the the Aboriginal flag the land , sky joined by the sun ? great looking flag IMO.
We don't need a beach towel for a flag nuff said

[Dhuck]

Don't like any of the designs. Do I think we should change it...........YES. Why? We (the white man) were not the first to settle here. As far as I am concerned we should incorporate the aboriginal heritage in some way (for those who wish to be politically correct "Indigenous". How ever that is not correct either). I am a white indigenous man (born here, making me indigenous to Aus) with an Aboriginal family. Why are we not able to have a National flag of our region. There were not even flags when the aboriginals came to Aus which was not even as we see it today.

I should not go on as this is a subject that infuriates me. Our original settlers get next to nothing in recognition. I can go on for hours on the issues created by white man. Do Aboriginals have the bad in their race? Yes. Does white man have bad in their race? Yes. Apart from colour what is the difference?

We are a multicultural society from the day the English arrived.

[Dhuck]

Isn't the the Aboriginal flag the land , sky joined by the sun ? great looking flag IMO.
We don't need a beach towel for a flag nuff said

I have to agree with that. Yes it is a great flag. It is a flag straight to the point.

[threedogs]

Yeah was living in Alice when the new Territory flag was un veiled 1980 or 81
saw princess anne I think?, Cool event. Many great Aboriginal mates in Alice, Darwin and nth wst Aust.
who knows we may/hope meet again, getting off flag a bit sorry, This thread is finished for me , said enough on the flag

[Cuppa]

Cuppa,
You and I have equal rights as do all others.
Leave our heritage alone.

Maaate, we have good & bad in our heritage & need to recognise both to understand the problems we continue to struggle with today. We may have to agree to disagree, but I would say that there is plenty of evidence to show that not all Australian citizens have equal rights. Legislation & reality on the ground are often two different things. I don't pretend to have answers to what are incredibly complex issues, but feel strongly that the first step is to acknowledge the problems.

Also I have plenty of mates who's beliefs I sometimes find offensive, & deal with this by recognising it is only one part of their being. Racism does offend me. We can still be proud to be Aussies together.

Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Isn't the the Aboriginal flag the land , sky joined by the sun ? great looking flag IMO.
We don't need a beach towel for a flag nuff said

I have to agree with that. Yes it is a great flag. It is a flag straight to the point.

Whilst recognising that many (black & white) would have reasons for not doing so, I also reckon it's a great looking flag & would be proud to have it as our national flag.

Cuppa

[growler2058]

Say no more
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[Clunk]

Say no more
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Read on the ABC site that someone mob from one of the UNI's over here conducted a survey of 500 people asking them questions in regards to flying the flag from their cars...... the suvrey found that just over 50% were racist and therefore adorning your car with the aussie flag is also a racist thing to do............................. interesting!!!!!

That counts me out then, coz I don't have a flag on the car............... I'm wondering what the one on my front door says about me!!!!???? Maybe I shouldn't have the Welsh one hanging under my patio either