Redarc BCDC1240 Install

[farqman]

I'm looking for people who specifically have this unit as I have some questions.

I purchased the 1240 last week with plans to run it as a Dual Battery system in my 2013 Patrol.
I went to my local battery world and asked a few questions in regards to batteries and was quite suprised.

He tried swinging me towards a "ultimate" brand battery, once I Told him it was going in a patrol he said it wouldn't be covered under warranty due to heat issues with the GU i.e. Being too close to turbo.

He rang the guys at century battery to see if they would accept the 40amp charge from the Redarc and was told that they would (information online says only 20amp though??). Said I could get a Marine 730, but if it was to swell I would have to remove it, bring it in and claim it was installed in a boat as Century will not warrant a marine battery in a Car.

Basically I see my options as using a Optima D27, which is only 66ah, or spend big an get a Lifeline battery. Not sure if the lifeline will fit in the ARB tray though as the tray is on back order.

99% of the information I can find regarding the BCDC1240 is people using it in trailer setups or using multiple batteries.
Trying to work out if it's suitable to use on ONE battery under the hood, and what my battery options are.

Or, do I throw it in the cupboard and buy a standard SBi solenoid setup, and use the BCDC1240 in the cargo area with 2 batteries if I decide to go that way?

Desperately trying to get answers. Thanks

[the evil twin]

Devices like the BCDC1240 are designed to compensate for voltage drop over long cable runs so, no, you don't need one under the bonnet and an SBI is fine if you want to go that way.

The SBI won't do Solar like the BCDC will however the BCDC can't charge at 40 amps on Solar so if you go SBI then you need a Solar Reg but will get the same charging current out of the panel array.

Any battery under the bonnet needs to be able to tolerate high temps and a lot of deep cycles won't so you need to check manuf spec.

A lot of deep cycle batteries also cannot handle high charge current so again check the manuf spec

99% of the info is about trailers/caravans because that is what the DC DC chargers were designed for and the application that most people use.
Because the battery bank in Trailers/Vans/Motorhomes are often a long run from the charge source and large capacity of severalk hundred AH but situated in ambient temp (IE not next to an engine/turbo) so the issues you have 'under bonnet' aren't a factor.

[the evil twin]

... forgot to mention.

The BCDC should be as close as practical to the aux battery however under bonnet temps will cause the internal sensors to reduce the available charging current so I would take that into account.

Bottom line IMHO is this... unless you are running Ca batteries and/or Solar then you don't really get much advantage in an under bonnet install from DC DC chargers over VSR devices like the SBI

[Cuppa]

The bloke at your local BatteryWorld needs to go back to battery school. If a single battery can be charged by a, say, 80amp alternator, why on earth would he even think that a 40amp DC to DC charger might not suit. I would be wary of any other ‘advice’ he offered.

Whether you should use the BCDC1240 depends upon where you want to mount it & what sort of use you want to put it to. It will not bring your aux battery under the bonnet to 70 to 80% charged any quicker than the alternator alone (via an SBI12 or similar) but it will ensure that you get the battery to full charge which the alternator generally won’t. Mounting the BCDC under the bonnet where it gets very hot will see it derating it’s ouput & possibly shutting down at pre-set temperatures so probably isn’t a good idea. (The manual says “The unit will operate optimally below 55 deg.C with good airflow. At higher temperatures the unit will derate output current”). In the specifications it also gives a maximum ambient temperature of 80 degrees C.

It’s also a bit of a waste if you are not planning to use it’s solar capability too.
I have one & like it, but have it mounted (together with the aux batteries) in the rear canopy charging batteries via solar & when driving. Another reason folk like them in caravans, camper trailers etc is that they will boost voltage, compensating for voltage drop. If your late model Patrol has one of those new fangled low voltage alternators, it would be useful, but not under the bonnet.

General consensus is that all AGM batteries dislike under bonnet heat & I don’t reckon Lifeline would be any different. However I’ve never had an AGM under the bonnet but would suggest that no battery likes extreme temperatures. Wet battery fans claim they are better under the bonnet, but my experience is that when fully charged by a smart charger (dc to dc, solar reg or mains) they will gas & lose fluid, the excessive temperatures would only exacerbate this. Regular monitoring & topping up would be essential, something many folk fail to keep up. Result is short lived batteries.

As you have purchased the BCDC I would suggest using an AGM battery or batteries of your choice mounted inside the vehicle the BCDC close by. Another thing that using it allows for is charging of aux battery(ies) of a different chemistry to the crank battery.

All of what I’ve said is based upon the assumption that you want the aux battery or batteries to be deep cycle item(s). These cost more than crank batteries & can last for many years more if treated well. This is a primary reason for using a BCDC1240 & battery mounted inside the vehicle. If you decide to put the aux battery under the bonnet I’d suggest that you use a SBI12 or similar & use another crank type battery, with the expectation that you will need to replace the battery more often. Of course by doing this you will have less ‘useable capacity’ when you get to camp (although you could fully charge the aux battery with a mains smart charger before leaving home). This would be a useful strategy for weekends away, but less so for extended touring, hence my earlier comment about what you do should be determined by the intended use.

I am hoping that this thread might draw comments from folk who have used AGM’s under the bonnet, because to date there is this common perception that it’s not a good thing to do, but I can’t recall hearing of first hand reports.

[BigRAWesty]

A simple shield around the battery would aid in any heat issues your battery might see. But in all honesty plenty of blokes been running the exact same thing as you want to do for many a years.

I'd go back to that "battery bloke" and tell him to shove his bs advice.

As cuppa said the unit may not like the temps. So if your set up allows it may be best to mount a gell in the read with the redarc next to it.

[farqman]

Mounting the unit isn't a huge issue. A member on another forum mounted his between the radiator and grill. Being in this position would allow for plenty of air flow.



I had planned on using the solar function later on down the track hence why I went for the DCDC charger. Might have to shelve it and go the solenoid path. Just pissed I spent so much. Was a special order so not sure the auto elec would offer a refund.

[Cuppa]

however the BCDC can't charge at 40 amps on Solar

Ummmm, yes it can

A lot of deep cycle batteries also cannot handle high charge current so again check the manuf spec

I don’t really understand this. I know that there are recommendations of charging amps, generally around 10% of the battery’s capacity in amp hours, but if the battery is being ‘well looked after’ it will generally be getting charged before it is ‘over discharged’ & consequently the battery will only accept a lower charge rate regardless of the capability of the charger. The BCDC won’t force 40 amps into a battery any more than straight alternator charging would.

[Cuppa]

So if your set up allows it may be best to mount a gell in the read with the redarc next to it.

Just so we are clear, a gel battery & an AGM battery are not the same thing. https://www.batterywholesale.com/agm_gel.html although folk frequently (& mistakenly) use the terms interchangeably.

[macca]

Ummmm, yes it can


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I don’t really understand this. I know that there are recommendations of charging amps, generally around 10% of the battery’s capacity in amp hours, but if the battery is being ‘well looked after’ it will generally be getting charged before it is ‘over discharged’ & consequently the battery will only accept a lower charge rate regardless of the capability of the charger. The BCDC won’t force 40 amps into a battery any more than straight alternator charging would.

Was thinking the same. I have recently installed a bcdc1240 in the pod with 2 new agm batteries. It came with a separate change over relay for solar input. If I had enough panels the amps would be the maximum the bcdc would allow. I had a 40 amp cb on the circuit and it tripped after camping for a day and a half, (engine running), so the bcdc does put out or draw 40 amps. Plus the aux batteries sit at 13 volts after being charged by the car or solar. That can be a week or two later. It seems to be a great system. I used Cuppa's knowledge to set this up and he is right on the money with his advice. Good luck.

[the evil twin]

Hiya Cuppa

[QUOTE=Cuppa;563137]Ummmm, yes it can

[QUOTE]

Uummmm, no it can't, not unless you have about a 500 watt or larger solar array

The BCDC cannot make something from nothing so if the max output of the solar is say 6 ish amps from say a 100 watt nominal array then that is as good as it gets.

The BCDC will sacrifice current to raise the charge voltage IE say, 12 volts in at 5 amps (60 Watts) will give you say 14 volts out at 4 amps (approx 55 watts after internal losses).
You can't feed less power into the DC DC device than you can get out

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I don’t really understand this. I know that there are recommendations of charging amps, generally around 10% of the battery’s capacity in amp hours, but if the battery is being ‘well looked after’ it will generally be getting charged before it is ‘over discharged’ & consequently the battery will only accept a lower charge rate regardless of the capability of the charger. The BCDC won’t force 40 amps into a battery any more than straight alternator charging would.

Yep, totally agree the charge acceptance rate is determined by chemistry and SOC of the battery but not all deep cycle batteries can handle the max current at the charge acceptance and rely on voltage limited current regulated charging.
Again, a quick check of the specs will make sure all is good.

As per the prev Q as well about AGM's under bonnet.

Quite a few of the Full River deep cycle batteries are spec'd for small charging currents (in the case of mine less than 20 amps)
They are also spec'd for lower ambients than in an Engine
We got a good buy on a heap of them at our Club a while back.
Mine are still going gangbusters after nearly 4 years in the camper
A few of the guys who put them under bonnet killed them in under 12 months

Equally tho, Full River do make versions that will take higher current.
Some manuf only make one or the other and some make both