For the brake genius out there.

[macca]

Hmmm, sounds like an opening for some enterprising company to produce or source aftermarket wheel cylinders with a bleed nipple which allows the air out!

The brake bloke said the army had Land Rovers with the same problem so they rigged up their winches and lifted the vehicle so the air could be bled out!.

[Robo]

Same idea as winch except, drive car up on ramps on right side only.
bleed left side the swap ramps to left side, and bleed right side.

Makes you wonder how Mr Nissan do it.

[93patrol]

Another option is to force fluid into the bleed nipple at the wheel cylinder and clamp the flexi hose at the diff and bleed it through your bias nipple. Use a squirts bottle with a rubber hose over the end of it. Might work



Disclaimer. This idea came to me at 4:30 am after a 12 hour nightshift on 1.5 hours sleep in the last 36

[pearcey]

If you put the wheel nuts back on the studs the bar will not slip off ,and if you can bend or break a stud then you should be in the worlds strongest mam comp
No trickery to the bleeding problem all you have to do is back the adjusters right off bleed then adjust the brakes.
With the brakes backed of the space in the cyl is so small that the air is displaced easily with fluid.

[Alitis007]

If you put the wheel nuts back on the studs the bar will not slip off ,and if you can bend or break a stud then you should be in the worlds strongest mam comp.

You still never put and bar across wheel stud, if you did that in any shop i know you'd be out the door quick smart. Its not hard to break wheels studs mate and you don't need to be the worlds strongest man either, i've broken tons of them when someone has cross threaded wheel nuts with my 900mm breaker bar. Anyway a proper brake adjustment is done by rotation of the wheel so without the wheel on how can you tell ??


How to know if your brakes are adjusted correctly:
Open rear diff center, the wheel rotates 1 revolution with a hard push
Lsd rear diff, the brake makes a consistent scrape on the drum during 1 complete revolution. In both cases the handbrake is disengaged.

[Cuppa]

No trickery to the bleeding problem all you have to do is back the adjusters right off bleed then adjust the brakes.
With the brakes backed of the space in the cyl is so small that the air is displaced easily with fluid.

Hi Pearcey, I understand the principle you are describing, but think I must be missing something. Firstly bear in mind I have never had my rear brakes apart, nor had need to bleed them myself. I also respect that you know what you are talking about when it comes to brakes, so I am not questioning your advice.

With the adjusters backed right off the wheel cylinder pistons will have moved inward reducing the internal space ... but..... when trying to bleed them wouldn’t pedal pressure simply result in pushing the pistons back out again? Is there some trick to prevent this ...... like placing something between the brake shoes & the drum or similar? Not sure if I’m being a bit thick.

Also, still wondering about a ‘better’ solution. When I was talking to Macca, I wondered aloud about the possibility of having the cylinders drilled & tapped in order to fit a bleed nipple on the top. Macca thought that there would likely be insufficient thickness of metal in the cylinder body to do this. A shame ‘cos I thought I was having a ‘Good Idea”.

How likely is it that there might be cylinders from another vehicle with suitably spaced mounting holes & a better placed bleed nipple? I have been trawling the net & have found many instances of others over the years who have suffered exactly the same difficulties as Macca, but no instances of the explanation he has found.
It’s hard to believe that no-one has found a bolt on solution to the standard ‘lack of feel’ Patrol brakes. I like many others was told by a Nissan dealer that they were designed that way on purpose because Nissan considered it safer in off road conditions! They even got me to sit in several other Patrols, all of which had similar feeling brakes, (& weren’t drum braked models).

To folks who have fitted braided lines to a Patrol, (particularly rear drum models) - did it make a significant difference to ‘feel’?

As things stand, I am not looking forward to ever having to bleed my brakes!

[threedogs]

would it be possible to run some brake line from each nipple to a central manifold
that will have one universal bleed point, easy enough imo

[jack]

I've followed this thread with interest, share your pain Macca as I had similar trouble finding a solution to wheel wobble many years ago. Very far from being an expert, I have changed, replaced, re-kitted many brake cylinders in the past. Really hope those times are well and truly behind me.

Also thought about a new bleed nipple on top of the cylinder as Cuppa mentioned but agree would be to thin to get a good thread to lock it considering the pressures involved as well. TD I don't think your idea of a central manifold would work either as the air trap is the issue and would still be above the bleed nipple.

Other than tipping the car almost on it's side to get the bleed nipple as the high point, it would be nice if it was possible to bleed the cylinder prior to installation (unfortunately that's not possible). Can't believe Nissan hasn't addressed this already!

[Robo]

simply tilt the car on ramps or the slope of a hill.
and bleed the lower side of car then swap and bleed lower side again.

Or can the cylinder be filled off the car and temporarily plugged to stop leak.
Install and bleed.

[pearcey]

G`day All
Cuppa to answer your question, it`s exactly what we want, that is for the cups to move out then when they return the agitation of the fluid drags the little air that is left in the cyl, out. One other way is to open the bleeder then stomp hard on the pedal shut the bleeder release the pedal SLOWLY and repeat as necessary.
This works ok on the rear brakes of the early MINI`s where the bleeder was placed in the bottom of the cyl.
Some times English engineering left something to be desired.