The increasing loss of free camps

[Cuppa]

Why have a 48hr time limit if its not going to be enforced?

I guess because a proportion (most?) do follow the time limit because they realise that it is the only way to share a limited resource so everyone gets a go. I believe that the more popular camps would be improved if local authorities installed a caretaker/camp host to oversee things as occurs in a number of places in WA.

[kevin07]

it seems this can be summed up quite quickly (the greed of some) wanting camps for the elite. and (the laziness of others) who leave their shit behind for the rest of us to view and the councils or more to the point the local people to pay for the clean up. ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM change the attitude of the greedy and lazy which cannot be done. unfortunately. kev. PS CUPPA GREAT POST MORE PEOPLE WITH YOUR ATTITUDE AND WILLINGNESS COULD MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

[Cuppa]

Have a read of the OP here, not having a go at RV only it includes all of us who like to camp.
We are on here and talk about it, so many don't realise the result of their actions. They will drive past a place in years to come and wonder why that place they camped is now closed.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/...ng_Issues.aspx

I know Lorraine, the person who was quoted in that OP. She is a straight shooter. She is also an advocate for the conversion of free camps to self contained only and/ or low cost camp spots as a partial solution to the problems she identifies. I take the view that her description of the problems identifying campers as their own worst enemy is correct, but that the problem won't go away by closing or restricting the use of camps. More camps would 'un-concentrate' the problems , & on site caretakers in the more heavily used camps, like Calliope River, would encourage campers to do the right thing.

I don't think pointing the finger at particular groups of campers achieves much. A lot of Rv'ers lover to point the finger at young backpackers in Wicked vans & similar, but I've met plenty of these young folk who could teach a lot of the oldies how to behave. Likewise it is clear I this thread that rv'ers aren't exactly held in high esteem. There are bad apples in every barrel who screw things up for the rest. Surely the solution, whatever it is has to deal with the behaviour of the bad apples, not the whole barrel, if it is to have any chance of success? Unless we all take responsibility, (including telling others to sharpen their game when we see them 'shitting in our nest') we will lose more & more of the camps we have always taken for granted. Either that, or as has already been suggested, have fees introduced. This is already happening too, the old 'user pays' trick. Low fees once introduced will only ever rise. Remember we are talking about public land & fees are not the only way of ensuring shared access regardless of what the bean counters would have us believe. Introduction of fees is the thin edge of the wedge & whatever they are will have the effect of excluding some, just as restricting use to folks who have grey & black water tanks installed in their vehicles will.


Cuppa

[Cuppa]

Unfortunately the term 'Leave No Trace' gets confused with 'Self Contained'. If the principles outlined in the following web site were adapted by everyone (ie. all campers) discussions like this would probably be unnecessary. http://lnt.org.au/

However as another friend wrote recently "We Need to change what people do (behaviour). Changing what people think (attitude) is harder and doesn't necessarily produce the desired behaviour change".

Which brings us back to the issue of 'policing' & the need for every single one of us to take the responsibility to encourage our fellow campers to do the right thing if we see them stuffing things up for us......politely! There will always be the few who cannot be reasoned with & who don,t care, but the majority will modify their behaviour if they think there is a chance they are being observed.

Cuppa

[DX grunt]

Which brings us back to the issue of 'policing' & the need for every single one of us to take the responsibility to encourage our fellow campers to do the right thing if we see them stuffing things up for us......politely!

I was going to mention this but didn't want to start 'Camp Rage' !!! Some people just don't want to listen. lolol

[NP99]

I was at Wivanhoe dam on the weekend having a BBQ lunch and fishing with all our family. Another family moved in over the top of us with their gear, fished for about an hour and left rubbish behind. We picked it up, because 100 metres to the bin was too much for them. If I seen them do it I would have given them the message straight!

This family was of xxxx decent, we beat them in ww2. I find they are big offenders for treating this dam as their tip!

[Cuppa]

I was going to mention this but didn't want to start 'Camp Rage' !!! Some people just don't want to listen. lolol

LOL. Yep, not all have ears they can use, & no point in getting into blues. If a polite comment has no apparent effect, don't assume that there will be no cumulative effect if they get 'polite comments' everywhere they go. You might not see the result, but the next camper might without realising it. Folks rarely like to acknowledge they have done the wrong thing when confronted.

On occasions I have made a 'show' of cleaning up someone else's rubbish rather than saying something directly to them.

Cuppa

[rusty_nail]

wow this thread has really got alot of interest, i for one agree whole heartedly with everything you say cuppa. it really hits a nerve for me the people who go camping and leave sh!t behind to ruin it for the next camper, and it would be sad to see free camping sites closed down to make way for "RV only sites".

recently (on the long weekend we just had) i went to a place called Bretti reserve to meet up with my old man who lives at the other end of NSW.

the spot is BEAUTIFUL, its along side a flowing river, on a MASSIVE grassy area low in the valley, framed by some magnificent mountains and untouched wilderness. if anyone is interested its right here: Bretti Reserve

i arrived early on thursday night and setup my camp. there were probably about 10 or so campsites already setup. my old man arrived in the early hours of the morning and we hit the hay.

the following day more and more people arrived, there were a few people in RV's however the majority of people that arrived showed up in big caravans and 4wds. one guy came so prepared that when him and his crew arrived he picked a spot in the middle of the camp ground and pulled out his lawn mower and moved a spot for his crew(i thought that was pretty impressive).

my old man and i had a great weekend and were very relaxed the whole time.

a convoy of young kids arrived at one stage and to be courteous to everyone setup their camp site at the back of the grounds, as far away from everyone as possible, so they could play their loud music till 12am, when they turned it off. i was very impresed that they were so considerate.

HOWEVER, as always there were SOME things that bothered me about some of the people that were around the grounds. a guy pulled up later on friday arvo near us and setup his caravan, he had a big jayco offroad canavan and a landcruiser. it was him, his wife and two young boys both in primary school.

he was a nice guy and we had a chat. during the conversation he asked where we(dad and i) had got our firewood from. i explained that we had gone up the mountain which was about a 10 minute drive away and cut up some already fallendown/cut down trees from the state forest and brought it back. he laughed and said that was too much effort.

the following day, i noticed him walking down to one of the closest trees with his son, a tie down strap and a chainsaw. the tree in his eyes was dead, I believed it was alive and kicking till he cut it down, just that it wasnt an ever green. it wasnt even a good tree for firewood, all the branches were thin and the wood would burn too quickly.

sorry for the long winded story, but my point is this, two things bothered me about what this guy did:
1 - he was cutting down a tree which was still alive from an area that is so well picked you would be lucky to find a stick on the ground just because he was too lazy to go for a 10 minute drive and didnt want to get the boot of his nice new toymota dirty with some decent logs and
2 - he was teaching his son, the future generation of campers, that this was OK!

as adults people like him should be setting an example for their children and showing them what is and isnt OK.

the guys on the other side of us did exactly the same thing and it really bothered me.

in so far as impact i am a low impact camper, i have my trailer, setup to be fully contained, i use little water, between dad, myself, some friends that showed up for one night and two dogs we only went through about 30 litres. i didnt shower everynight, but im not setup for that atm. when i did have a shower i went into gloucester which is about 20 mins away and used facilities in the town.

there were other things that bothered me but i wont go into them as this post is already long enough.

thanks for reading,

nic

[NP99]

If we employed more local rangers to patrol areas, this may have less impact!

[rusty_nail]

If we employed more local rangers to patrol areas, this may have less impact!

but who is gonna pay their wages? local or state government? getting money out of them for things like this would be like drawing blood from stone