"Good post GRA.GU." Thanks ET

" the manuf GVM on a Patrol sucks IMHO" Agree wholeheartedly. I've just looked through the specs and mine, a DX auto, has a carrying capacity of 665kg. I thought that was low until I looked at the Ti autos - just 543kg! So on a vehicle straight from the showroom with no accessories, 4 big footballers and a load of fuel could see you on your limit. Just as well I don't take footballers with me