4WD ACTION Letter to RTA

[Forced Offroad]

I know nothing about QLD's regs, are you trying 2 tell me you guys can't legally register a 6inch lift with an engineers certificate???

mate you cant run a 6" lift here in QLD... But people do and ive been around long enough to see people get pulled over and even not aloud to drive the 4B. Seen people towed home from outside Landcruiser mountain Park as they do spot checks just down the road...

This is why people are confused about whats going on.... Whats happening down south still wont make things any easier or relaxed in QLD if it goes national.
QLD 2" body lift engineered and 2'' spring lift so there is your 4"
QLD laws might be tight but there not very well controlled, Im guilty as I have a 4'' spring leaf but have all the after market gear to bring back the geometry of the truck...where if you go out for a weekend bash there a few pushing the limits.
The part don't like about these proposed laws is, If you want to run a higher lift you will need to join a 4x4 club, does everyone on this forum want to be involved 4x4 club.... And what makes a 4x4 club member any better then me on or off the road.....

And if this is the case, I will start my own 4x4 club where its free to join, no meeting to be had,no fools aloud who think they know everything about 4wdriving....(past experiance) So we can all run a sensible lifts in our 4x4's to get around this country

look i put this up here to notify people on what happening, so we cant put a fight... I this goes through with out a fight from us, you can all say good bye to your bull bars and where you can drive you 4x4 in the future....

[patch697]

mate you cant run a 6" lift here in QLD... But people do and ive been around long enough to see people get pulled over and even not aloud to drive the 4B. Seen people towed home from outside Landcruiser mountain Park as they do spot checks just down the road...

This is why people are confused about whats going on.... Whats happening down south still wont make things any easier or relaxed in QLD if it goes national.
QLD 2" body lift engineered and 2'' spring lift so there is your 4"
QLD laws might be tight but there not very well controlled, Im guilty as I have a 4'' spring leaf but have all the after market gear to bring back the geometry of the truck...where if you go out for a weekend bash there a few pushing the limits.
The part don't like about these proposed laws is, If you want to run a higher lift you will need to join a 4x4 club, does everyone on this forum want to be involved 4x4 club.... And what makes a 4x4 club member any better then me on or off the road.....

And if this is the case, I will start my own 4x4 club where its free to join, no meeting to be had,no fools aloud who think they know everything about 4wdriving....(past experiance) So we can all run a sensible lifts in our 4x4's to get around this country

look i put this up here to notify people on what happening, so we cant put a fight... I this goes through with out a fight from us, you can all say good bye to your bull bars and where you can drive you 4x4 in the future....

I agree whole heartedly with your post mate & im of pretty much the same mind set.

If this is to go through one this one issue, it will open up the flood gates for many others & my real fear here is a bloody brilliant way of life will come to a grinding halt for many of us....

Some may think this may sound a little melodramatic but I believe this is the intended end game behind it all.

[NissanGQ4.2]

The part don't like about these proposed laws is, If you want to run a higher lift you will need to join a 4x4 club, does everyone on this forum want to be involved 4x4 club.... And what makes a 4x4 club member any better then me on or off the road.....

The only reason why 4x4 clubs ( members ) will be exempt 2 an extent is because they make up part of the committee trying 2 bring these laws in, The 4x4 clubs said they need the lift because they do volunteer work for the Rural Fire Service clearing fire trails.

Yeh NSW laws arn't very well controlled either, I was running a 4inch suspension and 2inch body lift for a few years and never got pulled up by the police or RTA and my mechanic that done the pink slip must be dodgy as the only thing he ever said was " looks like you have spent a bit of money on the suspension "

Even if these laws are introduced its not really going 2 matter if the Police / RTA and mechanics don't enforce it.

But I agree, we need 2 try and fight this from been introduced

[Finly Owner]

I BELONG TO A CLUB, AND WE DON'T TOLERATE KNOW ALLS!!

Why belong to an accredited club? Let's see;

They run credited Driver Awareness Programs that teach novices like myself how to handle many different grades of surfaces, inclines,and situations, in a controlled enviroment under supervision of authorised instructors. These programs include recoveries and safety tips.

They provide membership to the 4WD associations that are involved with, transport authorities and parks and wildlife departments that make rules of what we can and can't do. Arguing on behalf of all 4WDers', including those who are so up themselves that can't begin to imagine that such things actually happen in clubs.

Many club members(depending on deals organised) are offered discounts in many 4WD accessory shops and dealerships by presenting their membership card.

Now the DAP may seem unneccessary to many of you, BUT, Queensland Nissan Patrol Club actually rate their Club Runs, and if you have not done a DAP, you can not attend a Class 3 or higher trip. These require min A/T tyres and may need Low Range 4WD. By administrating these rules, they are ensuring that our members are capable of safely engaging the terrain expected in the trip. They also have very thorough navigating and on trips and track advice when trekking, in a very friendly club atmosphere.

Now I'm not pointing at anyone, BUT, when was the last time one of our forum meet ups was posted, did we suggested the min requirements needed in a vehicle to traverse the terrain expected on the trip? When was the last time we asked how much experience do you have before inviting them along on the trip? Should we not accertain these before people turn up and find out that they won't make it through on Road tyres. I know we as the forum members are not responsible for any damage etc etc, but, surely we must acknowledge that no-one likes to admit their lack of ability!

As for starting a club where its free to join, no meeting to be had,no fools aloud who think they know everything about 4wdriving....(past experiance) So we can all run a sensible lifts in our 4x4's to get around this country. Well! first of all, a club should have a committee who is interested in the benefits to the members, they must have a constitution, and register a name. Registering a name and submit a constitution for consideration and approval costs money, as does keeping post office box for the club mail to go to. So you'll need a bank account to pay bills from, from which you'll have no money for as you have free membership!

So yes I must be a know all ! I don't know all about 4WDing and never will, because vehicles and accessories are always becoming better. So you can handle rougher terrain these days with better preparation. There is always someone who can show you something you didn't know, but you may never have the oppurtunity to learn it if you already know it all!

I agree that we have to have a say in what the law makers are trying to change, But, let's not Bag out those clubs that are fighting on your side for the same cause. If you don't want to become a member, Fine, but let other people have a chance at joining a good club, and see what it has to offer.

Some Clubs are like some Forums, not worth a second visit, BUT some Clubs are like this Forum, informative, practical, friendly, and family friendly.

Rant finished..........................For Now!


Tim

[Bigrig]

Now I'm not pointing at anyone, BUT, when was the last time one of our forum meet ups, suggested the min requirements needed in a vehicle to traverse the terrain expected on the trip? When was the last time we asked how much experience do you have before inviting them along on the trip? Should we not accertain these before people turn up and find out that they won't make it through and wasted their fuel turning up? I know we as the forum members are not responsible for any damage etc etc, but, surely we must acknowledge that no-one likes to admit their lack of ability!

Rant finished..........................For Now!


Tim

Careful now big boy. Appreciate the right to rant (I do it often ... and well!! lol), but drawing ANY correlation to a 4wd club's guidelines on track gradings, and their eligibility etc to do so compared to a social gathering of forum members (now mates) just to suit your argument is drawing a mighty long f'ing bow.

For a start, you've never been to one, so you wouldn't have the first clue what does and doesn't go on. No offence intended, but seriously, come up with a different example, as you've probably just condemned the thoughts of many new members ever attending on the basis of your opinion potentially becoming their perception of what goes on.

Secondly, all drivers are advised to use their "own common sense" in making decisions on what to take on - which is not an admonishment of responsibility (nothing to do with 'accountability' which is where insurances and the like come into play) but a general, and I would suggest, VERY well understood basis of accepting ownership of decisions being made at an individual level. Every effort is made to make people aware of the surroundings and conditions to allow them to make at least a half educated decision. If they then 'still' wish to take something on, they do it with constant guidance and assistance from some individuals who have probably as much, if not more, experience as some of the DAP instructors (I know one first hand who I could out drive 8 days of the week, and this guy is giving out certificates to people he's supposedly trained!!).

Lastly, and absolutely most importantly, not one single person who's been on our trips could say they've been coerced, guilted, or instructed to do anything they weren't confident of (irrespective of "AT Tyres and a 2" lift) as the vehicle is only half the challenge. The driver experience and confidence is just as vital, and as such, I would go so far as to say people have been in fact advised NOT to do certain tracks after they themselves have decided to do it. Bet you your next pay packet I could take Finly further than you could ... nothing to do with AT tyres and lifts - everything to do with experience and confidence/capability at the wheel. So clubs "grading" tracks is somewhat a waste of time in my humble opinion, because it could be a grade 1 doddle, but if grandma don't feel confident, then grandma shouldn't do it.

Furthermore, I would sincerely hope that out of three trips thus far, no one feels they have "wasted their fuel" as we do so much more than just 4wd - we socialize, we conduct demo sessions (albeit they've only just started), we go for walks as a group, we discuss the problems of the world (usually full when we do so they get solved easier!! lol), and generally do what Aussies do best - mingle with our mates.

Clubs have a definite value and I praise the efforts and contributions of what must be many thousands of members throughout this wonderful land of ours who give their time, wisdom and passion to promote a safe, sustainable, and accessible 4wd community. They absolutely have their place, but are also absolutely not the final resting place for common sense, courtesy and/or knowledge when it comes to the big bad world of off road touring (in any description).

My rant over ...

Hope to see you at the next trip mate ... those Mickey Thompson AT's I sold you will eat up everything you point them at ... but only if you wish to attempt it that is!! lol - sarcasm is my only strong point!!!

[Finly Owner]

Careful now big boy. Appreciate the right to rant (I do it often ... and well!! lol), but drawing ANY correlation to a 4wd club's guidelines on track gradings, and their eligibility etc to do so compared to a social gathering of forum members (now mates) just to suit your argument is drawing a mighty long f'ing bow.

For a start, you've never been to one, so you wouldn't have the first clue what does and doesn't go on. No offence intended, but seriously, come up with a different example, as you've probably just condemned the thoughts of many new members ever attending on the basis of your opinion potentially becoming their perception of what goes on.

Secondly, all drivers are advised to use their "own common sense" in making decisions on what to take on - which is not an admonishment of responsibility (nothing to do with 'accountability' which is where insurances and the like come into play) but a general, and I would suggest, VERY well understood basis of accepting ownership of decisions being made at an individual level. Every effort is made to make people aware of the surroundings and conditions to allow them to make at least a half educated decision. If they then 'still' wish to take something on, they do it with constant guidance and assistance from some individuals who have probably as much, if not more, experience as some of the DAP instructors (I know one first hand who I could out drive 8 days of the week, and this guy is giving out certificates to people he's supposedly trained!!).

Lastly, and absolutely most importantly, not one single person who's been on our trips could say they've been coerced, guilted, or instructed to do anything they weren't confident of (irrespective of "AT Tyres and a 2" lift) as the vehicle is only half the challenge. The driver experience and confidence is just as vital, and as such, I would go so far as to say people have been in fact advised NOT to do certain tracks after they themselves have decided to do it. Bet you your next pay packet I could take Finly further than you could ... nothing to do with AT tyres and lifts - everything to do with experience and confidence/capability at the wheel. So clubs "grading" tracks is somewhat a waste of time in my humble opinion, because it could be a grade 1 doddle, but if grandma don't feel confident, then grandma shouldn't do it.

Furthermore, I would sincerely hope that out of three trips thus far, no one feels they have "wasted their fuel" as we do so much more than just 4wd - we socialize, we conduct demo sessions (albeit they've only just started), we go for walks as a group, we discuss the problems of the world (usually full when we do so they get solved easier!! lol), and generally do what Aussies do best - mingle with our mates.

Clubs have a definite value and I praise the efforts and contributions of what must be many thousands of members throughout this wonderful land of ours who give their time, wisdom and passion to promote a safe, sustainable, and accessible 4wd community. They absolutely have their place, but are also absolutely not the final resting place for common sense, courtesy and/or knowledge when it comes to the big bad world of off road touring (in any description).

My rant over ...

Hope to see you at the next trip mate ... those Mickey Thompson AT's I sold you will eat up everything you point them at ... but only if you wish to attempt it that is!! lol - sarcasm is my only strong point!!!

No offence taken by me Scotty, as i will slightly alter my former post to read "when posting up trip" which I left out. As I was well aware that you would be the first to ask once at "fun park" who was knew at it and who wasn't..

I am just fed up with people going acting as if belonging to a club is a drag, and to use you words as they seem perfect, condem them so as to turn away those that might be looking at joining a club.

Anyone looking at joining in on a forum meet up should tag along, as Scott and Dave, along with all the others always do carry out proceedings with utmost care and safety in mind. Never have they lost one of their convoys vehicles, if anything, they have recovered yehicle for other parties. My rant is in no way meant to to cause concern over the forum meet ups, I am just trying to show cause towards clubs.

I have evoked the passion of forum meet ups, as much as passion for my club, was evoked.

Tim

PS Revised original post

[patch697]

This thread has been closed until further notice.