When are these desk jockey's going to stop trying to justify their jobs and leave us alone:furious:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/...=1156245087001
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When are these desk jockey's going to stop trying to justify their jobs and leave us alone:furious:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/...=1156245087001
I cant comment doggy without getting deleted or edited :animierte-smilies-f:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad :
Absolute bloody joke....thats all on here
sounds like absolute bollocks for you guys. Here in NZ you can get most things you like with an engineer cert - no rubbing in intended. Hope you guys can fight this one off and keep the freedom to adventure your beautiful country side.
Blood .... boiling .... fists .... clenching .... must .... not ..... swear ..... profusely .... on .... forum .....
If the government continually seeks ways to stick their fist in my @rse, how about a small kiss on the cheek first to warm me up??!!!!
What's next?? No more than 75mm when love making to control unsafe sex practices?? Makes about as much sense as this pile of rubbish ...
I absolutely LOATHE these people for what they truly are - beaurocratic, hypocritic, ignorant, one eyed, self serving, bottom feeders with nothing better to do than take care of one, and only one, government policy - the "Protect My Own Job" policy ...
Glad all the drug dealers, pedophiles, arms traders, bank robbers, rapists, arsonists, thieves, money launderers, etc are all off the street to give these ludicrously pathetic individuals the time to look into ride heights of 4wd vehicles (that opened this country up by the way).
Lord, I could go on for hours ... as most of you know!!!! lmao
Hey, i got this email from the team at 4wd Action.
I have just cut and pasted, i hope this isnt plagerism!
Australian 4WDers,
We are contacting you today as a matter of urgency, as you know newsletters generally don’t come out early on in the week however this one is extremely important and will ultimately affect every single 4WDer in Australia.
The biggest issue is that of vehicle ride height. Under VSI50, vehicles with a combined ride height more than 75mm above standard will only be eligible for ‘conditional registration’. The document isn’t clear on what this means, but you can be certain conditional registration will force you to justify why you ‘need’ to be driving your 4WD every single time you get behind the wheel. There is a way around this – VSI50 states that if you are a member of a Four Wheel Drive NSW & Act affiliated 4WD club, and have completed a driver training course, then you’ll be allowed full registration.
I thought compulsory unionism was dead in Australia. I thought this was a free country.
What we’re witnessing is un-reasonable and un-Australian.
While 4WD Action supports the great work 4WD clubs do and the many fantastic club members, VSI50 forces you to pay membership fees and join a 4WD club, simply so you can have full registration on your sensibly modified 4WD. What if you don’t want to be a member of a club? What if you can’t find a club to join? What if you’re stretched enough as it is and don’t want to pay anymore bills?
If VSI50 becomes official legislation, Four Wheel Drive NSW & ACT will have ultimate say over when and where you can drive your 4WD!
The second issue of concern with the revised VSI50 document, is a blanket ban of all tyre diameter increases of more than 50mm. That means generally speaking, anything larger than a 31in tyre on a dual-cab ute, or a 33in tyre on a full-sized wagon, will be absolutely illegal.
There’ll be no option to ever have a bigger set of tyres put through engineering tests to be deemed safe. VSB14, which is the guideline document VSI50 has been created from talks about a maximum headlight lift of 150mm over standard. We believe that’s fair – what we don’t support is the fact that the proposed VSI50 plan limits the way in which you’re allowed to achieve that 6in headlight height raise.
END QUOTE
Hmmm .... agree on the engineering cert part, but would have to disagree on the 2" with 33" tyres and driver ability means you go most places that haven't been chewed out by 37's etc - I hear and believe I understand what you're getting at Plassy, but there are plenty of places to go that are insanely difficult to get through that has nothing to do with rigs wearing 37's ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Personally I take my previous stance on it - at the end of the day, the government wants money, veiled by so called policy regarding public safety, but the long and short of it is money ... I'd happily pay to have a fully legislated system of modification that requires engineering certification for mods over what's being touted. I'm all for safe driving and sustainable 4wd practices, but telling me Tank is now illegal and putting me off the road until thousands of dollars go into converting it back??? Not on my life!!!! No way, no how, not happening ... get rid of all the black smoke blowing, rusted buckets of garbage (old commo's, fords, dump trucks, trailers, etc) on the road that would struggle at best to pass a roadworthy, and only then start picking away at the after market gear on my rig which is markedly superior in just about every way (strength, performance, longevity, design, etc) than original equipment.
Cigarettes kill more people every week than serious crash related 4wd accidents, and even with the arbitrary measures that have been out in place, millions continue to smoke - and the reason the government doesn't illegalise smoking (like it's suggesting for 35" tyres as an example)?? Go on .... you know the answer ...
Money!!
Here's the new VSi50 Draft
The second last page has some info on examptions
[QUOTE=Bigrig;141929
Cigarettes kill more people every week than serious crash related 4wd accidents, and even with the arbitrary measures that have been out in place, millions continue to smoke - and the reason the government doesn't illegalise smoking (like it's suggesting for 35" tyres as an example)?? Go on .... you know the answer ...
Money!![/QUOTE]
The biggest killer of young men in australia is suicide!
Bugger all money being put into that.
(slightly off track, i know)
Don't think I want 2 read your link Wayne, from what my old neighbor said about a year ago when they first tried 2 introduce this crap . If your 4b was already engineered for what you have before the new laws come in there is nothing they can do about it. And I'm pretty sure he said once the laws come in, that's it. Even if you were 2 get it engineered it wasn't going 2 pass for rego, but don't quote me on it. Might have 2 call past my old neighbor and see if he still works for them.
He even said to me the new regs were stupid and that they had no proof that a modified vehicle was any more dangerous than a standard height 4b or any other car for that fact.
Enough said on this topic, before i get banned 4 life *L*
Good point though mate!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
You're spot on mate - I am much more intelligent than that ... and that's why I'll leave the conversation at that. Emotion guides every decision we make, including what to, and what not to post ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
No offence taken at all boss - fully appreciate everyone's opinion.
I hope this doesn't offend anyone. But the fact is we don't need any more laws restricting us with what we can and cant do with our 4wds because where will it end!
So lets all band together and try our best to stop any law affecting us and our 4wds.
If this law comes in there is no point of going "this law new law is crap" if you did nothing about try to stop it.
You are so true mate..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
So I understand all that has been said above, But;
Aren't we all wanting to educate all 4WDers how to Drive, Respect, Recover, and Survive SAFELY? So how is being told to belong to a club and do a Driver Awareness Program so bad?
And as for it being another cost(BILL even ) , How much are those 35's worth? and all those lift components?
And how many people are lifting and removing sway bars totally? Making a very unstable 4WD!
Agreed there are unraodworhty vehicles that are standard on the road that need attention, Mine is one of them! I'm not pointing fingers, and, I agree we need to make sure the rules are fair. But as said, I'm sure we need a line in the sand, so we know where unlimited road use ends and strictly off road begins.
If they made no rules, we would have people trying to drive monster trucks on the black top! Don't laugh, we have idiots who would try it on, just look at some of the illegal lifts getting around in your area.
I will put my name to the protest purely to show the pen pushers we won't take everything they throw at us! BUT, 4WD Action needs to stop scaremongering!
Tim
Life $ucks..we also do have these kinda of experience here, but still very2 little.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Your right tho mate. Im sure theres no massive conspiracy targeting anyone specifically and yeah, we have to think about why its done not who its trying to hurt. PS im close to legal height now but would love to go bigger......might have to make a trailer buggy.
Sorry i was late.......
Hmmmm? There is some really good debate here and i thank Plas for some quality realism, not sure i agree with it all but your opinions are real world mate and full of credibility.
I was pleased when i clicked on the vid link in the first post and saw that 4wd action where getting political again but blown away when they started ranting about compulsory Unionism?? WTF are they thinking. Bloody amateurs. If 4wd action believe their campaign strength is to put active members of the educated 4wd community off side (Club members) then we should all retire now and start burning books (magazines more like it) Just madness. The easiest way to win a war is to divide and conquer! Hello!!!
Lets drop the internal politics, its crap and aimed poorly. If this is to be battled then "the People United will Never be Defeated" A club full of splinters breaks easily.
No doubt there is some short comings with 4wdNSW as there is with 4wd VIC, I have a very big problem with these organisations and their lack of real support for members on the ground. I am an active club member at a Committee level and been on the executive for many years and struggle to see any real benefit in remaining a member of 4wd Vic. I will battle that in private though and / or at another time, that has NOTHING to do with the fight over VSI-50. Why has membership to a club become the primary football in this campaign?? Speechless.
I dont necessarily have a problem with the fundamental objective of something like VSI-50, its problem is that it is trying to do too much! its primary aim was to deal with the ricers and the hoons running tubbed and bagged Civics with sparks flying off them running on bump stops and cut down springs fully sik! So Write it already!!! Get it out there!! The original draft though stated 2inch difference and did not consider lowered or raised and caught our group in the wash. If it defined its intent early then we all would have walked away and been happy and the laws would be functioning.
If the legislators want to deal with the 4WD community then be specific and lets talk turkey. Let them come to the table and be educated by us about what it is that WE do with our cars, Why we want the modifications that we do, Why we need them and where we take them. I cant imagine a single person sitting at the legislative table that would even know that you can buy a 35 inch tyre for a land cruiser! and What we would do with that?? Then the fact that a 4 inch lift is needed to safely run a tyre that size and that we have an expectation that our cars handle as well or better on our "Upgraded" suspension and tyre package would be unimaginable to most. What part of that well thought out, well researched, highly developed modification makes me a Hoon??
Why is it that the Legislative restrictions make it oppressively expensive to have my vehicle Engineered with its current spec yet my setup is commercially available to anyone?? Why can the Legislators sit there and make a blanket ban on the most common of 4wd modifications when investing in some ADR testing of some select improvements may support local industry and open the way for quality well developed modifications to be done within the rules. Most of the cowboys would disappear. I have no time for cowboys, they give us all a bad name.
How can the blanket bans be rolled out without the decision makers having any real concept as to why we would want or need to run a 35 inch tyre?? The bottom line for most is the lift is installed to allow for a selected tyre size, most commonly 35s. I'd be happy to take a car load of legislators up into the high country in my GUIV with a 3' lift and 35s and show them why it is a perfect yet illegal setup. It would be interesting to hear from them, after the drive, explain to me how even the highest qualified Engineer will NOT sign off on a set of 35s!!!
a 35 inch tyre in the high country shale and rock steps is the king! Safety is paramount and my 35s are choice for getting to the top safely with my family.
Split it up. Get VSI-50 out there for the Ricers. Sort that sh1t out!
Write a New 4WD specific Legislation. get educated, do the research, consult our community, we are the user group. Consultation and Consideration will engage cooperation and compliance. Liberate the legislation and liberate the Engineers and allow us to pursue a safe, well educated sport supported by a local manufacturing industry committed to Worlds best practice products.
It aint that hard!!
well this is not what i wanted to have with my coffee this morning
and reading this has just curdled the milk in my cold coffee sheeeeeeiiittttttttt...............what a bunch of tossers !!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NissPat
what about the money we inject in the country the jobs this spending creates
the extra safety features we achive to our vehicles
this sounds very much like the fools who prance around schools saying its only 4x4`s that run all the kids over at school crossing`s
when i collided with a cow a couple of years back ........IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE THAT SAVED MY ASS
anything smaller of a vehicle or lower in height i would`nt be here
and that comes from 4 differant surgeons and my family doctor.
i m gunna stop before i get too carried away
Hey Nowoolies when they tried to ban bull bars 4x4 Action had a draft protest Email made and all members filled it in and sent it. I as well sent a personal Email saying that the bull bar on my truck saved our lives so you could do the same with your experience.
IN MY OPINION 4WD Action are the biggest pack of inflammatory critics in Australia when it comes to this sort of issue. Their previous input in 2010 at all levels was obstructionist, negative and extremely detrimental to reasoned debate and consultation by peak bodies with Government.
Personally I have no issue with the National Code of Practice (NCOP), VSB 14. If VSI 50 (which is NSW specific) is aligned with the NCOP then that is what the previous 'fight' in 2010 was about when the proposals were going to be tighter than the NCOP. The 4WD fraternity won that round.
50mm increase in track lets you run up to 305's, 50mm tyres lets you run 33's etc etc.
There are solid engineering principles that need to be addressed behind anything much over those parameters such as degraded braking efficiency and massively increased stress to suspension components before any sane person lets vehicles on the road with Joe Public.
Bottom line... if VSI 50 is no tighter than the NCOP then what is the problem, it is just 4WD Action beating their meat and crying 'look at me, look at me'. If VSI 50 is tighter then reasoned debate from a united group of representatives will win again.
MR..... I just love your work.....Thanks mateQuote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
I like how the do-gooders (sorry don't know what else to call em on the family rated forum) say 35's aren't safe because they place to much stress on certain mechanical components. Anything above a 2" lift & your rig WILL topple over, disconnecting sway-bars is dangerous blah blah blah.
Aren't Patrol's over engineered? Well from the Gq onwards. I remember reading it several times over the years in a few different places. Nissan had reliability probs with mq/mk patrols so they went all out with the new gen GQ it was over engineered I think the words were.
The case maybe the same for Landcruiser's, maybe earlier patrols had strong enough wheel bearings etc to handle 35's.
Dose anyone actually know what stresses a gq etc can handle in tyre size before it is unsafe? Every make/model will be different!
I am more than happy to take these desk jocky's for a ride in my gq. The front sway-bar is gone the rear has disconnects & it sits on 6' springs & 35's. I have travelled from home to Brisbane return 2500klms many times with out any accidents. It gets used as a daily vehicle & is quite capable off road. It stops, steers & dose everything it did before the mods without any drama's.
I think a system should be introduced that takes into account the make & model of vehicle. For example I can't see any problems with a GQ/GU patrol or 80/100 series running 4" springs & 35's. How many get around now with out incident. Then say a suzuki may be able to run a max of 2' lift & 31's. I think this would be a much more commonsense & fair set of rules than to just blanket the lot with 2" suspension & 50mm in tyres.
What about the driver? I wouldn't have a problem with having to sit a test, & do a driving test also to prove that I am capable of driving my modified 4wd. Put that class on your license. I drive semi's/rigid's etc for a living. I had to sit a test & do a driving test to prove I could drive one, that I was aware of it's braking & handling capabilities.
How about P platers? Only allowed a 2' lift & 32's for example. They brought in the laws to stop them from driving turbo'd or v8 performance vehicles. I didn't see the Do-gooders banning v8's etc.
This VSB14/VSI50 is just a bunch of hypocritical b#@@sh$#! how can I get my GQ engineered & the government/do-gooders agree it's safe now all of a sudden it's not.
It's plain to see that the 4wd association has done a back door deal. I won't get started on them, but I for one will never give them any of my hard earned.
Just my Opinion. It is not aimed or intended to upset anyone on here or with any other model Patrol Or other make/model of 4wd.
Cheers jono.
Remember people "4WD Action" is a magazine that makes lots of money from advertisers! Whom advertise Lifting kits and BIG Tyres. enough said I think........................
Tim
very true Tim, Very true. Imagine the amount of money they would loose from advertisingQuote:
Originally Posted by Finly Owner
at what they charge for kits and things they,l be broke in a weekQuote:
Originally Posted by toddrhind
the 3 big names would be hurting real bad
Morning all.......
As you all know, we (the forum admin) respect everyone's opinions here, in fact we welcome & encourage them. The forums knowledge base is astonishing to say the least & the posts put forward in this thread is a clear testament to the passionate & informative views shared by many.
However I would like to remind everyone that we all need to ban together, 4x4 enthusiasts, 4x4 clubs, 4x4 organizations, 4x4 business's & 4x4 promoters alike If we wish to make a difference here, so lets all please keep the objective in prospective.
Regards
Paul.
Over the last few days I've seen many threads (similar to this one) on this topic appear on most of the 4x4 forums, all it would seem inspired by the one newsleter from the Editor of the 4WD Action magazine. Does anyone have any real information on the progress of this proposed legislation?
I still haven't seen any sort of group action which we can take to voice our dislike for the proposed legislation. Is there any group action which we can partake in drafted yet?
I'm with XTC on this.
First off we should remember that VSI 50 is NSW only and whilst it is best to all band together and not leave our brothers in one State to duke it out alone the more important thing is this... has anyone seen any reliable reference from any source other than 4WD Action.
I haven't as yet and I have been looking everywhere. As prev posted, the only references I can find all stem from that 4WD Action Email.
I don't trust 4Wd Action from first hand experience but happy to acknowledge they are first to break this news IF they are right
I know of someone that works in RTA Technical, Will try and call past his place this weekend and see what the go is, this is from the RTA website, so unless 4WD action has someone on the inside that is giving them some updates nothing much has changed since 2009Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2011/09/4.gif
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati..._vehicles.html
Raising and lowering vehicles
Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) No 50 Raising and lowering vehicles was issued on 15 July 2009 by the Minister for Roads as part of a drive to help improve road safety in NSW.
The start date of VSI 50 has been deferred in order to provide industry and the community the opportunity to have input into the proposed changes.
A working group comprising industry, RTA and government representatives has been set up to discuss details and implementation arrangements for the VSI 50.
The working group met on August 12, to discuss options.
The RTA will investigate the options that arose from this meeting and make further determinations in due course.
The revised implementation date will be announced once the recommendations have been agreed.
The revised date will include a transition period to enable modification currently being made to vehicles to be completed. VSI 50 will be amended accordingly.
Inquiries may be directed to 1300 137 302 or by email to: Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au
The letter has been drafted folks & all it needs is your stamp on it.
It already has mine.
http://enews.emgroup.com.au/4wd/2011/VSI50_back/
Nice work Doggy, what a lot of hogwash, nothing but beurocratical B**S***. mmmmm nice word there Pete...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by The Dogman
We'll fight this one too, Not that im in a high rise yet, but maybe one day.
Its abit like pitbulls mate, its not the dog its the owner, dosent matter what you got it's hows its treated, cars dogs even horses,
treat em like crap and they'll turn
Nice work to you to Pauly, Mines DONE tooQuote:
Originally Posted by patch697
Yup x2 dunQuote:
Originally Posted by wild98
I did mine as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by wild98
Mine done ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by patch697
All good and well that all these forums / websites that are affected by these changes are starting 2 post it up but where does this info come from???
There is no mention on the NSW RTA website, other than what i have posted, and the only mention in Parliament that i can find refers back to 2009 when if first was mentioned http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro...a?OpenDocument
Sounds like a whole lot of crap 2 me
Yep im in too.Quote:
Originally Posted by snicko
It does only involve NSW though?
I think fairly sure we're allowed 150mm in tas: 50mm raise in tyres(so 100mm bigger tyre), 50mm in springs, 50mm body lift.
It does only involve NSW at the moment, but they are trying 2 push for a national standardQuote:
Originally Posted by taslucas