Weight of a fully modded touring GU.

OK. I have used search and can't get the answers I am looking for. If this has been discussed before please direct me to the thread.:icon_bonk:

I am just sorting stuff out here. I know that the legal payload on a GU Patrol is not great. So what does your fully set up GU tourer weigh? By set up I mean bull bar, winch, sliders, rear bar with twin spares, cargo barrier, drawers, long range tanks, roof rack, awning, water & camping gear.

I have done a few quick calculations on paper and the numbers always come out over loaded. It is my understanding that a GVM upgrade is not possible now with the new laws. When my time is right, I will be building a GU tourer but I want to stay legal as far as weights etc are concerned. Also insurance problems arise if overloaded and an accident is involved.

I hope I have given enough info to spark up good answers. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by lortapug

OK. I have used search and can't get the answers I am looking for. If this has been discussed before please direct me to the thread.:icon_bonk:

I am just sorting stuff out here. I know that the legal payload on a GU Patrol is not great. So what does your fully set up GU tourer weigh? By set up I mean bull bar, winch, sliders, rear bar with twin spares, cargo barrier, drawers, long range tanks, roof rack, awning, water & camping gear.

I have done a few quick calculations on paper and the numbers always come out over loaded. It is my understanding that a GVM upgrade is not possible now with the new laws. When my time is right, I will be building a GU tourer but I want to stay legal as far as weights etc are concerned. Also insurance problems arise if overloaded and an accident is involved.

I hope I have given enough info to spark up good answers. Thanks.

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Not sure what you define by a good answer because a vehicle with those mods and two adults onboard will never be even close to being under GVM.
I know mine is waaay over and I don't have a twin rear carrier but pop the 2nd spare on the roof rack ... add on the the dual batts, hi lift, fridge/s and slide and it will be about the same.

You're one of the sensible ones that actually thinks before he mods, lortapug. But as ET has said, you can't have it all and be under the GVM. And if you are over it, apart from legalities, you take your chances on exceeding design specifications and so jeopardise reliability.
Some things are more specialist than others, for instance,if you're constantly in rough country perhaps rock sliders are desirable, but if you're touring the outback they're so much extra weight. Ditto the rear bar. Weight is probably our biggest enemy - more so I suspect than the infamous "Grenade" issues. I'm very mindful of it when making my decisions eg. I choose the inconvenience of no fridge slide, even though I had one, because of its weight. I also stick to 235x85 tyres on original rims, partly for the same reason [I can carry 6 of these at less than the weight of 5 of many of the larger wheels].
Despite my concern with weight I still find the need to compromise eg I' ve fitted drawers [approx 45kg] to help organise myself, but I do normally travel with the rear seats removed. I choose to run with jerry cans for water and fuel, and I have dual batteries, bullbar, winch, and roofrack with 6th spare and awning attached. I haven't weighed the truck recently, but from memory with these mods I'm running very close to the GVM with driver and fuel on board. So my advice is only install what you think you'll really need, not what others are fitting for fashion statements.

Good post GRA.GU.

I might add that I usually have my trusty Camper on tow so add another 75 Kg's towball weight as well when its loaded out.

The vehicle stays nicely balanced via the rear suspension air bags but, yeah, the manuf GVM on a Patrol sucks IMHO

"Good post GRA.GU." Thanks ET

" the manuf GVM on a Patrol sucks IMHO" Agree wholeheartedly. I've just looked through the specs and mine, a DX auto, has a carrying capacity of 665kg. I thought that was low until I looked at the Ti autos - just 543kg! So on a vehicle straight from the showroom with no accessories, 4 big footballers and a load of fuel could see you on your limit. Just as well I don't take footballers with me:wink:

Looks like I may have to do some deep thinking here. Seems the only way to stay legal & safe is to do something about the GVM. Unless there is something I don't know, the only way to get a GVM upgrade on a used vehicle these days is to go Portal Axle, Mark's 4wd Adaptors have all states except QLD on board with a 750kg GVM upgrade on portalled Patrols. (told by Mark's by e-mail). Or a lazy axle conversion or a proper 6x6 conversion both of which up the GVM to 4500kg. On the other hand I guess is to be really light on with mods and tow a trailer with everything else in/on it.

Not really keen on portals as the lift is default 6" and so COG is raised. Besides my better half is vertically challenged. Lazy axles don't appeal for many reasons. Black top touring yes but not for me. The idea and benefits of true 6x6 interests me but Oh so expensive.

I just did a quick calculation of our accessories and when we go away for a big trip we are well over the limit as well. But the thing is it is near impossible to stay below the gvm of the patrol. An st auto weighing in at 2443kg + bullbar, winch, spotlights, towbar, roof racks and basket (as in our case), full tanks of diesel, 50L waeco full of food and drinks, fridge slide, rear drawers (taken out rear seats so weight should be roughly the same, but the stuff in them can add up to a bit of weight), dual batteries and associated wiring, recovery gear, awning.................I'm already at 2900kg before I add the missus, daughter and camper.

The only real way to stay below the gvm is either 1/ leave it standard and travel or 2/ just don't go anywhere where you will need the extra gear and I just refuse to do either of these 2.

When back home I take gear off/out to reduce the weight as most of it is not needed for around town....

If you want to be safe and comfortable when you travel then unfortunately there are times when exceeding the GVM of the patrol is going to happen.

Cheers

Greg

Yep. Weight is always an issue, not restricted to the Patrol either. So I travel light. I only take the essentials; food, water, fuel, spare tyre and repair kit, come-along, compressor, bulbar, swag or tent, toilet paper, 1st aid kit, UHF, toolbox, and the misses. That's it, everything else is a luxury.

having only just purchased / decked out the troll, this is an area I am learning as well. Coming from a dual cab previously where space was a bit more of a luxury to a more confined area now, packing and carrying of gear is now a premium. if it just me, not an issue as i don't utilise a lot of gear but taking the missus with me and then when munchkin comes along as well, packing will be a hit and miss learning curve for a bit until i get a camper trailer which will make things easier

I have a mate in Brisy that used to travel up and down the eastern seaboard as well as country areas for work and his patrol (4.2L turbo) was constantly at around the 4T mark especially on the trip up, he did this for years and has never had an issue. I know it was on bitumen but there are many other roads that should not be called roads at all.....the bruce highway is a goat track in places.

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Originally Posted by the godfather

Yep. Weight is always an issue, not restricted to the Patrol either. So I travel light. I only take the essentials; food, water, fuel, spare tyre and repair kit, come-along, compressor, bulbar, swag or tent, toilet paper, 1st aid kit, UHF, toolbox, and the misses. That's it, everything else is a luxury.

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Not as easy as that though. eg A simple 2 week remote outback trip you will need more than the bare necessities.

I have a DX 4.2 tray with a Piggy Back camper on it. The camper is supposed to be 360 kg empty. I carry 160 ltrs water, 175 ltrs fuel, 3 x batteries, solar panels, winch, steel bar, 2 x spares plus all the camping gear/food/wine etc for two weeks . I have heavy duty leaf pack's fitted and bellows to assist and have had the chassis strengthened. I calculated on paper, as a lot of you are trying to do and came up with about 3,500 kg's. I took it over a weigh bridge at the local steel dealers on our way on holidays recently and bugger me, it was 4,290 kgs. That's 890 kgs over gvm. It is extraordinary how the kg's add up. I'm not sure what you can do. How people carry campers on the back of Hilux's, holdens ,falcons etc I have no idea. I think it's something you just have to run with.

last time I weighed my wagon semi-loaded it came in just under 3000kgs and that wasn't fully optioned as we so often like to indulge,,,,,,,,,,,

A few years back one of my BBFs brought a Carry-on camper for his ST ute to do the TIP.
Just the camper was 800kg. I know 200s tojo have a major problem with this issue.
Should start another thread and just put total weight, fuel capacity, etc, free to just check your weight at the tip weigh bridge
My last 4x4 was totally stripped internally, best I had the weight was 2400kg.

PAPS01 how was fuel at 4.2t???

ive got bullbar, brush bar/sliders ,winch, rear bar(1 spare and 2 jerrys), steel roofrack, cargo barrier,dual batt and with these mods mine comes in at 2.88 ton with a empty fuel tanks and only driver in the car .... there isnt one mod ive done i dont use regularly so i just live with it and drive to the conditions. we usualy tow a camper and its got everything in it so only thing we put in the car is the 2 waeco's and trailer weight on the towball . but would be intersting to see what the loaded weight would be with all that

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Originally Posted by threedogs

A few years back one of my BBFs brought a Carry-on camper for his ST ute to do the TIP.
Just the camper was 800kg. I know 200s tojo have a major problem with this issue.
Should start another thread and just put total weight, fuel capacity, etc, free to just check your weight at the tip weigh bridge
My last 4x4 was totally stripped internally, best I had the weight was 2400kg.

PAPS01 how was fuel at 4.2t???

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Did a 12,700 k trip to the tip earlier this year. I rarely get over 100 k's and often 90-95. Averaged 16.7 ltrs per 100 k's which I thought was pretty reasonable. Took the piggy back off this week to weigh the truck. With 45 ltrs of fuel, winch, steel bar, roof rack, second spare and two batteries 2,940 Kg's. Spec,s have the DX cab chassis without a tray at 2,128 kg's.

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Originally Posted by paps01

I have heavy duty leaf pack's fitted and bellows to assist and have had the chassis strengthened. .

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Hi, your comment about having the chassis strenthened interests me. Where is it strenthened & is it possible to get this done without removing the tray (or in my case canopy). I'm going to be in a similar position to you.

Cuppa

Cuppa, I think you will find that if yours is an ex Telstra Patrol it will have already been done, as they did it when they were new. If you can have a feel toward the top and outside of the chassis rails behind your tool boxes (behind the cab) there should be a triangular shaped plate welded there from the outside and over the top. I saw many Telstra Patrols when I was looking for mine and they were all modified. I believe William Adams do like wise. Paps.

A fully optioned loaded Patrol will definitely be over 3 ton.
I went to the tip with my light 6 x 4 trailer and some garden clippings and it was 3.3 ton.

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Originally Posted by paps01

Cuppa, I think you will find that if yours is an ex Telstra Patrol it will have already been done, as they did it when they were new. If you can have a feel toward the top and outside of the chassis rails behind your tool boxes (behind the cab) there should be a triangular shaped plate welded there from the outside and over the top. I saw many Telstra Patrols when I was looking for mine and they were all modified. I believe William Adams do like wise. Paps.

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Thanks Paps, I'll have look. Hope mine has been done, 'cos going by this thread it's gonna need it. I was surprised that the GVM doesn't appear to have been upgraded though. Still has a plate saying 3400kg. :(
Cuppa

I drove over the scales yesterday with my trailer on at 3.66tonne . I have been meaning to swing by and get a weight of the GQ alone on the scales.

Hi again Paps,
Is this the reinforcing plate you referred to?

I'm assuming I probably have the 'heavy duty leaf pack' (albeit knackered), but just to be certain how do I tell. Is it the number of leaves? If so how many in a standard DX cab chassis leaf pack vs the heavy duty pack?

Cuppa

Cuppa, yes that is the upgrade in your photo. The problem is, I don't think it increases your GVM but it is less likely to be damaged if you go over it. I have Ironman Contsant 500kg plus leaf packs which have ten leaves, the bottom three being thicker and possible slightly progressive (nothing like the standard progressive). I run the bellows at about 25 psi so as not to over ride the suspension but basically have the weight distributed over three points. The fellow that fitted the suspension said if you pump the bellows up to 90-100 psi, they remove the spring from the equation, effectively like having a heavy duty coil, with all the weight on the one place on the chassis. The way your patrol sits in the photo, I'd bet the suspension has been upgraded as well. Paps.

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Originally Posted by paps01

Cuppa, yes that is the upgrade in your photo. The problem is, I don't think it increases your GVM but it is less likely to be damaged if you go over it. I have Ironman Contsant 500kg plus leaf packs which have ten leaves, the bottom three being thicker and possible slightly progressive (nothing like the standard progressive). I run the bellows at about 25 psi so as not to over ride the suspension but basically have the weight distributed over three points. The fellow that fitted the suspension said if you pump the bellows up to 90-100 psi, they remove the spring from the equation, effectively like having a heavy duty coil, with all the weight on the one place on the chassis. The way your patrol sits in the photo, I'd bet the suspension has been upgraded as well. Paps.

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If you could let me know the details of your airbags I would much appreciate it. Interested too in whether your suspension fully meets your expectations (& what those expectations are). The idea of spreading the load over 3 points seems to make sense. I guess my decision will be multi leaf springs with or without airbags, or parabolics with or without air bags. Whichever way I guess it won't be cheap, but will, I hope, offer reassurance that the vehicle will be fit for remote travel, (even if it doesn't comply to GVM limits).
I'm still shocked that Telstra would have had modifications done from new but not upgraded the GVM at the same time, (OH & S ). It was my assumption when i bought it that all Telstra Patrols had been upgraded, but I can only see the 3400kg Nissan compliance plate under the bonnet.

Cuppa

Ps. I just checked - I also have 10 leaves with the bottom 3 being thicker. No idea of the maker, but possibly the same as yours.

My weight is a secret, but when I clean it out, it looks like this. lol

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ust2009011.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I'm assuming I probably have the 'heavy duty leaf pack' (albeit knackered), but just to be certain how do I tell. Is it the number of leaves? If so how many in a standard DX cab chassis leaf pack vs the heavy duty pack?

Cuppa

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I braved the elements and went and checked out my DX ute. It has 9 leaves - on each side at the back and coils on the front. lol

Not sure if it's HD, and pretty sure it has OME springs.

It's hard to tell with all the car yard black paint on the undercarriage, but there is a hint of yellow starting to show through.

[QUOTE=Cuppa;304472].
I'm still shocked that Telstra would have had modifications done from new but not upgraded the GVM at the same time, (OH & S ). It was my assumption when i bought it that all Telstra Patrols had been upgraded, but I can only see the 3400kg Nissan compliance plate under the bonnet.

Cuppa]
Here's mine
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...grunt018-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

Hi again Paps,
Is this the reinforcing plate you referred to?

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Can't see that on my ute.

Rossco

A DAQ......

Should there be any difference between a ute and a wagon? EG, Suspension, reinforcing plates, ect.

I'm getting confused, now. lol

Rossco

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

If you could let me know the details of your airbags I would much appreciate it. Interested too in whether your suspension fully meets your expectations (& what those expectations are). The idea of spreading the load over 3 points seems to make sense. I guess my decision will be multi leaf springs with or without airbags, or parabolics with or without air bags. Whichever way I guess it won't be cheap, but will, I hope, offer reassurance that the vehicle will be fit for remote travel, (even if it doesn't comply to GVM limits).
I'm still shocked that Telstra would have had modifications done from new but not upgraded the GVM at the same time, (OH & S ). It was my assumption when i bought it that all Telstra Patrols had been upgraded, but I can only see the 3400kg Nissan compliance plate under the bonnet.

Cuppa

Ps. I just checked - I also have 10 leaves with the bottom 3 being thicker. No idea of the maker, but possibly the same as yours.

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I'm afraid I can't help with the origin of the bellows as they were on my ute when I bought it, but most suspension mobs will help you out. What I have learnt though is that air bags are the ones placed inside coils and bellows are independent, either stand alone (as on a truck) or to assist leaf springs. I've had the set up for twelve months including a trip to Cape York from Melbourne, probably around 14,000 k's which is not much. My only real requirement is that the rear is level with the 2" lift on the front whilst carrying what I now know to be about 1,100 kg,s which it does and secondly as I have described to share the weight so I don't do any chassis damage which has not occurred so far. So, so far so good.

[QUOTE=DX grunt;304565]A DAQ......

Should there be any difference between a ute and a wagon? EG, Suspension, reinforcing plates, ect.

I'm getting confused, now. lol
Rossco, the mod on the DX ute that I have and have seen on others is for leaf springs, reinforcing the chassis in front of the front leaf mount, so not applicable to a wagon, which I believe have their own problems. Paps.