I've got a rattle.

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23rd April 2018, 01:00 PM
10G

I've got a rattle.

This started about 4 weeks ago, I think it's getting worse, not really sure.

It's one of those sounds that tell you you need to find out what it is because you can tell it will eventually fail.

Anyway, it only happens when the motor is first started and lasts for around 20-30 seconds. It stays on idle, but if I depress the accelerator and build up some revs it goes away. Go back down to idle it returns.

It's hard to describe a sound, but it sounds like something that is loose and is rubbing on something as the motor vibrates, but I've prodded a poked and everything is tight, sounds like tin or plastic rubbing on something. Sounds like it's coming from the alternator or AC thing that sits under the alternator or is that a power steering thing???

The motor is a ZD30. Are the alternators or ac compressors or power steering pumps known to squeek or fail?

Yesterday I was listening and once the squeek went away, the engine seemed to become steadier and idle speed increased very slightly, like when you put a vacuum hose back on and the motor picks up and runs more smoothly.

As I stand looking at the motor, the sound seems to come from the right hand side, not the left.

Thanks for any thoughts.
23rd April 2018, 01:37 PM
4bye4

Belt tensioner bearing on its way out???
23rd April 2018, 02:17 PM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4bye4

Belt tensioner bearing on its way out???

Yeah I wonder?? Could be??

The rattle sounds kinda like a 10mm nut & bolt done up loosely and rattling when in a piece of tin. The rattle is irregular, like tap ... tap..tap tap ...........tap....tap..........tap, not tap tap tap tap tap tap.
23rd April 2018, 02:22 PM
mudski

Remove the belt and see it the noise goes away. That will tell you if its the a/c, alternator, belt, or idler....
23rd April 2018, 02:38 PM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudski

Remove the belt and see it the noise goes away. That will tell you if its the a/c, alternator, belt, or idler....

I'm going to ask a dumb question coz I don't know, but will it start without the alternator hooked up?

How difficult is it to remove the belt?
23rd April 2018, 04:38 PM
garett

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

I'm going to ask a dumb question coz I don't know, but will it start without the alternator hooked up?

How difficult is it to remove the belt?

yeah she start up.(will display alt warning light etc.) shouldn't be too hard to remove.
23rd April 2018, 08:22 PM
mudski

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

I'm going to ask a dumb question coz I don't know, but will it start without the alternator hooked up?

How difficult is it to remove the belt?

On the arm of the belt tensioner theres a cast hex. I think its 17mm, put a socket on this, a sliding T on the socket (if you have) then a long bar over the T handle for extra leverage. Pull on the handle, I think pull clock wise, to compress the small shocker thingo on the tensioner, it will only move maybe 10mm, but its enough to make the belt slacken off.
Just remember to take a pic of how the belt is before you remove it.
23rd April 2018, 09:12 PM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudski

On the arm of the belt tensioner theres a cast hex. I think its 17mm, put a socket on this, a sliding T on the socket (if you have) then a long bar over the T handle for extra leverage. Pull on the handle, I think pull clock wise, to compress the small shocker thingo on the tensioner, it will only move maybe 10mm, but its enough to make the belt slacken off.
Just remember to take a pic of how the belt is before you remove it.

Thanks Mark I apprecaite the help.

Think I'll get a new belt and keep the old one as a spare. My old Navara did one of these belts once just driving along. Took out the bottom radiator hose & something else as well from memory. You don't go far once they brake.
23rd April 2018, 09:19 PM
mudski

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

Thanks Mark I apprecaite the help.

Think I'll get a new belt and keep the old one as a spare. My old Navara did one of these belts once just driving along. Took out the bottom radiator hose & something else as well from memory. You don't go far once they brake.

Yeah I used to keep a spare belt, tensioner and air flow meter under the passenger seat when I had the ZD. If any of these were to go, you aint going anywhere. And easy to change on the side of the road too if need be.
23rd April 2018, 09:25 PM
Hodge

Sounds like.a failing belt tensioner to me mate.
I've had 2 fail on me when I had my zd30 crd.
The bearing hers dirt and grit inside and basically wears itself down to bare metal making a racket.
Eventually siezes up.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...018/04/178.jpg

Sent from Note 5 using TapaPro
24th April 2018, 10:30 AM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Sounds like.a failing belt tensioner to me mate.
I've had 2 fail on me when I had my zd30 crd.
The bearing hers dirt and grit inside and basically wears itself down to bare metal making a racket.
Eventually siezes up.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...018/04/178.jpg

Sent from Note 5 using TapaPro

Thanks for the help Hodge, think I'll chase up a tensioner.

Do you need to take out the radiator to get to the belt, tensioner and all the other bits & pieces?
24th April 2018, 10:59 AM
Bidja

Belt removal from the manual.
1. Remove radiator shroud.
2. Contract and hold the auto tensioner using the following procedure.
a. Securely hold the 19 mm (0.75 in) hexagonal portion A of
auto tensioner with a closed wrench.
+ Preferably use a tool with a handhold of 500 mm (19.69 in)
or more in length.
+ No bolts or nuts are required to be loosened during the
operation.
b. Turn the hexagonal portion A in the direction shown by the
arrow to contract the damper unit of the auto tensioner.
CAUTION:
+ Because the tensioner has a high tension, it shall be
securely held and turned with a closed wrench.
+ Because the hexagonal portion A of the tensioner is
made of aluminum and may be damaged by sudden
input, turn it slowly according to the contraction of the
damper unit.
3. Remove the belt from the alternator pulley first, and then
remove it from the other pulleys.
+ If the tensioner is not held firmly, your finger may get caught
between the belt and the pulleys. Confirm the holding of the
tensioner, and then hold the belt side in the place away from
the pulleys to attach or remove the belt, paying attention to
prevent your finger from being caught.

Also you may find it easier if you remove top shroud as well but not necessary.
24th April 2018, 11:18 AM
Bidja

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

Thanks for the help Hodge, think I'll chase up a tensioner.

Do you need to take out the radiator to get to the belt, tensioner and all the other bits & pieces?

Have not done it yet, but understand no removal of radiator is req'd. After belt is off, the Tensioner can be removed, 17mm for the lower attach bolt and a 12mm for the top one. Imagine it would then come away.
24th April 2018, 11:19 AM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidja

Belt removal from the manual.
1. Remove radiator shroud.
2. Contract and hold the auto tensioner using the following procedure.
a. Securely hold the 19 mm (0.75 in) hexagonal portion A of
auto tensioner with a closed wrench.
+ Preferably use a tool with a handhold of 500 mm (19.69 in)
or more in length.
+ No bolts or nuts are required to be loosened during the
operation.
b. Turn the hexagonal portion A in the direction shown by the
arrow to contract the damper unit of the auto tensioner.
CAUTION:
+ Because the tensioner has a high tension, it shall be
securely held and turned with a closed wrench.
+ Because the hexagonal portion A of the tensioner is
made of aluminum and may be damaged by sudden
input, turn it slowly according to the contraction of the
damper unit.
3. Remove the belt from the alternator pulley first, and then
remove it from the other pulleys.
+ If the tensioner is not held firmly, your finger may get caught
between the belt and the pulleys. Confirm the holding of the
tensioner, and then hold the belt side in the place away from
the pulleys to attach or remove the belt, paying attention to
prevent your finger from being caught.

Also you may find it easier if you remove top shroud as well but not necessary.

Geez thanks for the input Bidja, that's a fair bit of typing.
24th April 2018, 11:20 AM
mudski

Wont need to remove radiator or shroud. Loosen tensioner and remove belt from the top. The rest is easiest done from the bottom. I would keep the old tensioner and put a new bearing in it and keep it as back up....
24th April 2018, 11:32 AM
Bidja

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

Geez thanks for the input Bidja, that's a fair bit of typing.

It is referred to as a copy and paste function. I am a hoarder of good info when I come across it.

My speed of typing, you would have had to have waited until next week. Hope it helps...
24th April 2018, 01:22 PM
threedogs

I threw my rattle out of the cot but kept my teddy,
Just had a heap of work done on the GU thought Id get them
to change the tensioner and aircon pulley and Id keep the old
for spares , My rig has only 220k on it and the tensioner just fell apart.
My Patrol has had a very easy life . once the upper shroud is off you should
have access to the tensioner. Glad I changed it as it would have failed next trip to the Murray
only go OE same goes for the belt as well. Happy as now seems to have more power
24th April 2018, 04:13 PM
Bidja

Quote:

Originally Posted by threedogs

I threw my rattle out of the cot but kept my teddy,

I haven't got either and I am sad about that and now I sleep on a bigger bed....lol

John did you get a tracking# for the recovery "T" points? PM me if you have one. Sure they arrive soon anyway.
24th April 2018, 05:06 PM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by threedogs

I threw my rattle out of the cot but kept my teddy,
Just had a heap of work done on the GU thought Id get them
to change the tensioner and aircon pulley and Id keep the old
for spares , My rig has only 220k on it and the tensioner just fell apart.
My Patrol has had a very easy life . once the upper shroud is off you should
have access to the tensioner. Glad I changed it as it would have failed next trip to the Murray
only go OE same goes for the belt as well. Happy as now seems to have more power

Thanks TD, I was going to go genuine with that stuff, not really stuff you can afford to muck around with.
25th April 2018, 10:03 AM
VK2FMIA

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

Do you need to take out the radiator to get to the belt, tensioner and all the other bits & pieces?

Had mine off just the other day. Been through this a few times & this is the way I do it.

Tools - 12mm, 17mm & 19mm sockets. Driver & extension handle (bit of Pipe)

Crawl under front of vehicle. Unclip small section of radiator shroud at the bottom (straight piece around 50mm wide) & remove.
Place 19mm socket on driver with extension handle on the lug nut on tensioner. Apply pressure towards passenger side of vehicle.
With tension off the belt slide it off the Aircon Pully & remove.
Remove top bolt (12mm). Remove bottom bolt (17mm). Remove tensioner.

Reverse the process to fit new tensioner & fit belt.
25th April 2018, 10:21 AM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by VK2FMIA

Had mine off just the other day. Been through this a few times & this is the way I do it.

Tools - 12mm, 17mm & 19mm sockets. Driver & extension handle (bit of Pipe)

Crawl under front of vehicle. Unclip small section of radiator shroud at the bottom (straight piece around 50mm wide) & remove.
Place 19mm socket on driver with extension handle on the lug nut on tensioner. Apply pressure towards passenger side of vehicle.
With tension off the belt slide it off the Aircon Pully & remove.
Remove top bolt (12mm). Remove bottom bolt (17mm). Remove tensioner.

Reverse the process to fit new tensioner & fit belt.

Great thanks VK2FMIA that sounds not too hard, I might give it a go myself. Thanks for the useful write up.
25th April 2018, 11:10 AM
VK2FMIA

1 Attachment(s)

[QUOTE=10G;758455] I might give it a go myself.

No prob, the rattle might just be your belt, I remember just changing my belt the first time & the noise stopped. Just remember which way the belt goes on.
Attachment 75097
25th April 2018, 02:25 PM
BillsGU

I do it the same way as VK2 says - except I use a 19mm ring spanner to take the tension off the belt. I use a ring spanner so that I can put the hook end of a ratchet strap in the other end of the spanner, wrap the strap around the passenger side wheel, and then using the ratchet strap reduce the tension and remove the belt without getting my fingers caught. When you do it with sockets it helps if you have three arms!
25th April 2018, 02:26 PM
BillsGU

If that doesn't work - swap your rattle for a dummy and then spit it out!
25th April 2018, 03:32 PM
10G

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillsGU

I do it the same way as VK2 says - except I use a 19mm ring spanner to take the tension off the belt. I use a ring spanner so that I can put the hook end of a ratchet strap in the other end of the spanner, wrap the strap around the passenger side wheel, and then using the ratchet strap reduce the tension and remove the belt without getting my fingers caught. When you do it with sockets it helps if you have three arms!

Hey thanks Bill, good tip which I may yet use.

So this is what I'm after:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40132920...m=401329206133
25th April 2018, 07:00 PM
TPC

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillsGU

I do it the same way as VK2 says - except I use a 19mm ring spanner to take the tension off the belt. I use a ring spanner so that I can put the hook end of a ratchet strap in the other end of the spanner, wrap the strap around the passenger side wheel, and then using the ratchet strap reduce the tension and remove the belt without getting my fingers caught. When you do it with sockets it helps if you have three arms!

I did the same thing but never said anything because I thought I was being a wimp using the ratchet strap. Feel much better knowing someone else did the same thing.
28th April 2018, 03:20 PM
10G

[QUOTE=VK2FMIA;758456]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10G

I might give it a go myself.

No prob, the rattle might just be your belt, I remember just changing my belt the first time & the noise stopped. Just remember which way the belt goes on.
Attachment 75097

Got around to doing this today.

Took off the belt and there was slience. Put the belt back on and there was still no squeeks. It was a good exercise as I now know how to replace the drive belt.

Thanks VK2 for the drive belt image you posted. I did try & put the belt back on the wrong way, so I got your pic out and it saw me good.
16th May 2018, 10:05 AM
10G

Got around to changing the tensioner & belt last weekend. I'm no mechanic, but this wasn't a huge job, pretty simple actually.

I undid the 4 bolts that hold the plastic splash guard under the radiator so I could more easily reach up to the tensioner to get to it and that was all. Took me about 30 - 40 minutes, maybe even less, for me that's about 10 minutes for someone who knows what they're doing.

It was a worthwhile experience as now I know how to do it should I need to when I'm in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks everyone for your help.

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