Rear Winches - Lowering Down versus Hauling Dead Vehicles Up

G’day NissanPatrol.com.au,
Being an electrical nuffy are keen to learn pretty please if lowering a Patrol or any big chunk of great steel down a descent length slippery hill could ruin an off the shelf say 12v rear mounted ute winch.
Have heard IIRC around the traps that winch motors do not appreciate being spooled out under power for too long?
Managed to sneak in a quick Google query earlier today and only seemed to come up with winch brakes ‘outwards’ are externally (gearbox) preferred versus inner drum brakes due to overheating/melting new age rope on their drum cores apparently?
As a secondary usage and more importantly a slow but highly torqued rear winch could hopefully help haul out dead/caput vehicles on super tight 40 point turn impossible tracks?





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MB, only impact is heat within the motor, if the winch is going forward or backwards, under same load, same heat. The issue with the brake is different as you know no doubt. If the vehicle is being backed down a hill via a winch, under power, the weight of the vehicle may exceed the torque, hence it would start to 'run=away'. Your brake then comes into play to decelerate, however the brake is not proportional to load, ie weight x speed if the vehicle is generating a load greater than the winch drive can handle, hence it might slip or stutter to a stop. Over repeated applications it may well glaze up and fail.This is a negative attribute of the electric winch brake set up, however they are generally configured to pull forward where the vehicle is simply arrested at the stop point or when you release the power button. The inertia build up is greatly reduced compared to a run-away condition, hence the brake works well. This is why I like my hydraulic winch - works all day forward and backwards if required, no fade.

I don't think you would have a problem in 'real world use' using a winch like this, however if you had to go a couple of hundred metres, you might run into trouble or at best need to rest the brake so it cools back down.

Depends on the Winch, or more specifically the brake set up.
Many drum braked eleccy winches (esp low mounts) are not designed to be winched out under power for anything other than unloading/disconnecting IE a couple of metres
On multiple occasions I've had to replace Dyneema that looks like the last wrap was plastic plates melted around the drum on WARN's.

Externally braked eleccy and hydraulic etc will all do the job but be very wary of doing that with drum braked jobbies unless they are made to do that job

Thank you Gents, appreciate the top advice as always!
Found this ‘Sherpa 4x4’ Mule beast on Google, would be really great to hear your thoughts on them in this rear mount application.
https://www.sherpa4x4.com.au/collect...inch-australia
They appear very aware of drum heat issues within the link and pasted below also:
“Braking Design - Beware of cheap imitations! Many winches on the market use a ‘Brake in drum’ design which causes heat to build up in the winch damaging synthetic rope. ‘Brake in Drum’ winches are not designed for synthetic rope, this will become obvious at the most inconvenient time. Sherpa 4x4 winches are compatible with all types of synthetic rope as the brake is designed into the gearbox. This innovative design results in a trouble and heat free winch and braking combination.”

Cheers!!


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I think the internal brakes using friction surfaces are the killers. My electric 12000lb Milemarker winch, which I think is simply a chinese derivative, has a spring coil mechanism and I punished that for a while without detriment to the synthetic rope, always seemed to run cool. By comparison my 8000lb Warn low mount with a friction cone assy would certainly heat up very quickly. This unit obviously focuses on the brake issue, and it looks very robust. Run a tape over the length and room first as it looks really long with the two motors

Thanks Phil, should fit no problem on the GU as is 748mm wide its spec sheet appears. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...018/04/121.jpg


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Just watched the crushing 4wd vid, always heard this story but never seen it happen- sure stuffed it. . . I Like how they state "don't try this at home" lol , bugger as just about to give it a go . . .

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Originally Posted by MB

Thanks Phil, should fit no problem on the GU as is 748mm wide its spec sheet appears. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...018/04/121.jpg


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Rails on the GQ are maybe 640 from memory - certainly can't fit a warn 12000lb low mount.

Just measured AB’s GQ work ute rails at 1005mm inside to inside.
640mm is tiny you whacker :-)!


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Originally Posted by MB

Just measured AB’s GQ work ute rails at 1005mm inside to inside.
640mm is tiny you whacker :-)!


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Yeah, sorry, was thinking about that on the way home and the 640 is between the front rails, and the chassis does flare out just behind the rear seat from memory.

Yeah that double motor one wont fit in the front a a patrol but would work great in the back.

My understanding of winch out heat of the drum is that when pulling in the brake disengages and allows the drum to spin, the brake locks on when you stop pulling. When you winch out the brake remains engaged and you drive through the brake with the winch motor creating internal heat in the drum centre immediately. Avoid winching out. Even spooling out using the motor is not ideal.

The himount has the external brake which is a winner.

We’ll test da ‘Sherpa’ out, although not a big fan of Richmond colours :-)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...018/08/598.jpg
In saying that my front end Warn HM is Collingwood worthy, should’ve gone Navy Blue pressure pack ;-)


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What are you thinking - are you going to winch yourself around the country or fix that engine - which might just get you out there quicker so you can play with this new monster toy!!!

Heaps of room there though. I am looking at installing a rear winch on my brothers hilux and its tight to say the least.

Wow mate is that a twin motor job? Looks cool. This sethp also means you can winch the guy behind you rather than snatch. A warn himount in the back would be sweet

PMSL, builder has bin sourced I believe:-)


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BTW: Please do post up a pic of your rear grader blade winch bar ;-)


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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

Wow mate is that a twin motor job? Looks cool. This sethp also means you can winch the guy behind you rather than snatch. A warn himount in the back would be sweet

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Still trying to payoff the last HM rebuild you kindly guided me to brother :-) This jobbie was half the price although only expected to perform less frequently and at 17,000lb should help clear the deadwood gulleys !


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MB

Still trying to payoff the last HM rebuild you kindly guided me to brother :-) This jobbie was half the price although only expected to perform less frequently and at 17,000lb should help clear the deadwood gulleys !


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Soft......... you love it!

High Mounts ‘Pimped’ are Sexy and we know it ;-)
Did have two once, hmmmmm [emoji848]


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Originally Posted by MB

High Mounts ‘Pimped’ are Sexy and we know it ;-)
Did have two once, hmmmmm [emoji848]


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Hahahaha. Bloody @AB has got a very tidy Himount. Built. Modified with some good bits off mine cause i got better good bits.... then i bought another Himount for the GUIV. It aint got no good bits :(

An F350 stump remover tends to test em out, snatch blocked and all :-)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MB

An F350 stump remover tends to test em out, snatch blocked and all :-)


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And big fat ass GUIVs stuck to the xhassis in Soupy muddy snow 90 degrees off the track.

And minutes after your recovery a GU1 ute slid off too, thankyou Sir & Sir winch tough torque rebuild advice [emoji106][emoji106]


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Sadly another busy year has gone by, shed queen is still awaiting TLC including previously planned add ons as per the 17,000lb Mule for its rear purchased above.
Family fun adventures in the old faithful GU wagon are taking first place of late and wondering whether or not the Mule could assist hauling our barge?
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2019/11/38.jpg
Our wagons current old faithful Warn 9,000lb low mount I seriously doubt will handle an upcoming planned adventure and looking towards getting the twin motor Mule up under there.
Measurements today find it could easily fit width wise albeit needs the mounting holes and fairlead shifted left some 20-25mm.
Is there any issues, legal or otherwise with butchering up a bullbar to get this beast on board a GU?


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Only airbag compliance. Don't alter that and your all good

Re-drilling 4 holes won't make any difference to the structure as it sits. The only hesitant or watch point is the potential to now be able to extrude that hulk with a bigger winch, ie 9000 V 17000lb and there might be a requirement to double line pull, 34000lb worst case at stall - could happen if you were in a sticking suction type situation. Ring the bar manufacturer and find out what the design capacity is. Happy to run some numbers for you on the mounts - need dia, no off, thread form, will see how you would travel worst case.

Cheers Philstar!
Bars off the ute originally from WA, can’t honestly remember the popular day maker there but knowledgeable blokes once said they were renowned for camel proofing trucks there with W.T 8.8 bolts galore as reinstalled underneath.
A weakest link theory may have to be downgrading rope to 10 or 11mm instead of 12mm as purchased for the utes arse end beast plans originally?
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2019/11/39.jpg




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@MB how much rope did you buy mate? What size did you get?

12mm 45m


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Originally Posted by MB

12mm 45m


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Nice, is that for your GU Ute front yeah?

You could fit the himount to the front of the wagon for.your trip mate.

I’m pissed, sure you’re not on dwugs Daz mate?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MB

I’m pissed, sure you’re not on dwugs Daz mate?


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Bhahahahaha. Ask Nicco about the drum sander beother. Found you a ripper if your still chasing. Sent him a link.

I’m lost boys?


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Originally Posted by MB

I’m lost boys?


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Sorry mate, left field side note at this time of night will always lead you astray brother.

Ask Nicco tomorrow to show you the link. Could not send it to you as it is Facebook.

FaceMcFarkinWhatskiPouf?


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Ok ok ok Im driving up a hill Oh no Im stuck,
wait a minute Ill winch myself down, can someone
please tell me how you do that without a tether
or similar on the front.
@MB I have a 10000LB low mount winch here if you want it,
would hate to throw it out

John, unsure what you mean really? If you are going uphill and want to winch back downhill maybe you have blown something up or its safer to take it down on the cable for stability or so slippery as soon as you start to move its a slide situation, simply attach to a tree and reverse drive the winch - am i missing something?

In @MB case he is talking about heading downhill, then attaching a winch cable from a rear mounted winch to allow him to do a super slow descent on the cable.

Thank you John, correct Phil mates!
Original plan on thy ute was to carefully lower oneself down nose first from arse and or front end tether and haul dead landcruisers or the like upwards.
Have always convoy preferred somewhat relaxed running as tail-end charlie although it does come at a slippery price once several trucks have bastardised the tracks ahead.
Thinking of it in theory like an Elephant walk downwards, Calves get lowered by Mum first and after subsequent processions a wide arse final heavy bull relies on his own tail :-)


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If you're so worried, put the winch in backwards to lower yourself then swap it over to winch yourself back up. Time wasted but all good!!:1087:

Apologies Craig mate, I’m lost there?


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