well im confused now - to nads or not to nads, that is the question ....

Ok - so i know some will say use the search - but i have.
And once you read my post below I am sure some will say yes, and some will say no - this is the problem with the internet i guess ....

Ive spent the last 2 weeks reading this entire site, and a few other forums, plus just about every link on google

So to be clear, I am not a newbie to patrols.

I previously had a 2004GUIV from new, and at that time read all the stuff, fitted gauges, valves, IC fan, Catch can, bigger exhaust and dump pipe - but still had a grenade go off 18 months in.:blowup:
To their credit, Nissan came to the party and gave me a new engine, but alas, i got nervous, and dumped the car and jumped fence for a while - went to the dark side :jawdrop:

Well, life goes around, been working away, had a company car (200 series V8 - and sorry but i miss it a bit), changed jobs, now had to buy my own ride again.
Had an interim ride (landrover discovery - what a mistake) and wanting a real truck again, my budget told me i had to go with the patrol, as a cruiser is just way over my budget

So, picked up a second hand (2011) CRD, 70 clicks on it - tidy car and in good mechanical cond -one owner, country miles, few stone ships and lots of bulldust in the all tight places, but no rust.

I struggled with the decision, but figure by previous experience was a one off for me, and Nissan must have the CRD right by now.

So, here is my dilemma ...

Finances as they are, i need this rig to last me a good 5-7 years.
So, I'm willing to do what i need to proof the car as best I can, but ... as I said at the outset, Ive done all the reading, and I am confused.

1. Catch can - understand the pros - but read the stories of pressure causing oil leaks - so do i just run a vented can, or go the pro-vent and plumb it back in - I am willing to take the best option, but so many conflicting reports - im leaning towards a can that's vented.

2. Block EGR - on the CRD they say you get an engine light if you fully block it, so run one with a hole in it, but I just think that defeats the purpose - i also read that ERG means it burns cooler as the oxygen is out of the incoming gas - so you can run hotter whit the EGR blocked - i dont want to continually be clearing codes, but i see the benefits of blocking.

3. Upgrade inter cooler - well mines showing signs of a leak at 70ks already - fine but so many options - i go go the full hog, my finances are limited to doing the other mods - $350 options on ebay, many say you get what you pay for, but others who have bought say they have no issues.

4. Inter cooler fan - some say mount on top - some say mount below - some say its of no benefit at high speed, some say it makes FA difference - i drive around 500km a week back and forth to work, some windy roads, but mostly between 70 and 90kmh - so I am thinking it would be of benefit

5. Dawes valve and needle adjustment - i get you can control boost, and get some high boost going - im not looking for more power - just want to grenade proof - is it necessary? - other say not on the CRD as the over boost issue is gone on these as its controlled by the ECU? So many conflicting version on the net about this. if i dont need it, id rather not, but again, if it held with long term i will do it.

6. Upgrade exhaust - some say 3 inch -some say 2.5 inch - some say remove the cat and just put a straight through dump - again i don't need performance, just want to ensure i get reliability - some say you need to do it for lower EGTs, and some not. - I am seriously confused on this one and don't know who to believe

7. Gauges - most say you must put these on - well i had them on my first grenade and they made Sweet FA difference - i had no notice of the bang coming. So I am struggling to see the point.

as i said at the outset ive done all the research - but I am more confused than when i set out to find out what i needed. Bang Head

I realize, just posted this will again give many different opinions and probably not solve my dilemma.

So, i must now have been alone with this - others here too must have seen the conflicts - so how did you decided what options to take?

Being a CRD I don't see why you would "have" to do anything to it.
Catch can if you want to. I have a non vented CC but not a Provent brand.
Blocking the EGR will decrease the amount of carbon build up and I believe the CRD does need a hole in it to prevent limp mode. Again you don't "have to" on CRD.
I have replaced my intercooler with a fully welded one when it started leaking. Same specs as original, not larger or better flow.
It is not necessary to have an intercooler fan for normal driving
You don't need to grenade proof a CRD.
You don't "have" to upgrade your exhaust.
If you don't have dawes valve and needle adjustments, you don't "need" gauges.
On that year CRD motor you don't "have" to do anything, but if you start you need to follow through. That is if you start with adjustable needle valves and dawes valves you need the gauges to know what you are doing. Also with larger exhausts you "may" upset things and go into limp mode.
Yes I know - not very helpful. I have no NADS on mine yest and have over 200K km on it no troubles and it is not a CRD,

My CRD had 150,000 odd K's when I sold it... It also had full instrumentation and I love to tinker and experiment
First thing to get is a Scangauge or equivalent and an EGT gauge that way you know within about 10 degrees and 1/10th of a litre per 100 K's what is happening
Next, Anti-grenading is not req'd so mods are for performance only.
I/C fan, makes a difference on a stock I/C up to about 50 KPH... after that useless (works best as a puller)... took mine off after I stopped dicking around on sand etc
Chip and exhaust give measurable extra power
EGR block - block it fully and use the Scangauge to clear any codes... if you block EGR you may need to adjust the VNT
CRD's run hotter, boost higher and love to rev so get used to giving them a bit of welly to get up to cruise on the bitumen then back off.
Dawes? well, I went as far as buying one but sold it as my truck went gangbusters without one

Bottom line is they drive different to the Di's so just sit back and enjoy the fun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jack180

To their credit, Nissan came to the party and gave me a new engine, but alas, i got nervous, and dumped the car and jumped fence for a while - went to the dark side

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Wow. I'm so surprised to hear a good Nissan dealer story ... Good on them.

Anyways
Evil Twin summed it up perfectly.
I'll just add the following...
I held off for ages on any NADS on my CRD, because I was reading that CRDs "don't need it", and Nissan has finally fixed the grenading on the CRD's. I call bullshit on all of those.
I finally bit the bullet and got some gauges. It was shock and horror when I saw the factory EGT temps. But they are supposedly normal, as evil twin said, CRD's run hotter, I don't know why. And the boost, well the factory boost control is just shit-house. It's a just a boost yoyo, up and down, and there seemed no explanation as to why it does it...
So NADs train began. Blocked the EGR, and the EGT temps dropped by about 50 on average, especially cruising. Then I got the needle and dawes valve fitted, and that fixed the whole boost yoyo thing. The boost had an awesome linear curve and the car just behaved so much more better. This also dropped EGTs a whole lot more all around. Then the factory prone to leaking, IC, finally leaked..... And that was replaced by a tig welded unit, and dropped some temps again. Catch can was added later on too.
At the end I had a car that behaved and felt so much more better. Lower EGT's, very nice stable boost, oil stayed cleaner longer...due to EGR blank.
Really IMO, it's a no brainer.

Edit: Also added the chip & exhaust, which also gave the car a new meaning again,

If you read all of Chaz Yellowfoots comments on the ZD30 and nads the last line I think says it
may or maynot save your motor but it will allow you to shut it down early avoiding expensive
repairs.
As for the IC fan unlesss you do a lot of sand driving I really dont think they are required.
Fitting gauges allows you to "see" whats happening under the bonnet

I have a 2003 ZD30 and I have found that it a goo way of knowing what is going on, that way if something is wrong it makes it easier to locate

Hi Jack and welcome back to Patrols. The CRD motor has a totally different fuel management system and they don't fail at the rate of the Di's. They have the same failure rates as other companies diesels (have mate in RAA).
First thing is to get tig welded inter cooler. Don't put that off. If you plan to remap ecu or chip it etc then go an upgraded ic but if happy to keep fairly stock then standard size is fine.

Next is the the scangauge as it reads faults and clears them as well as giving you engine info such as MAP, water temp, fuel usage, alternator output etc. let's you see what the engine sees. For $200 it's worth it. Just the engine water temp it displays can save the engine as it is almost instant and can show you what the engine is doing.

Then if if you want you can try a egr block. Scangauge will tell you if it's over boosting. If you keep the standard exhaust then should be fine. If bigger exhaust and egr block then over boosting for sure.

Cleaning the intake manifold of gunk is also important. Recently had Wynns egr cleaner put through the old girl and WOW! What a difference. Plan to use it next service until I don't see any more improvement. If you don't block egr then this might be a good regular service item to keep the intake manifold clear. Not as good as removing and cleaning by hand but I have to say the engine breathing improved dramatically with one can.

in my opinion either just do the few mods above as the CRD is a much different engine to the Di or go the whole hog. Not much middle ground. I opted for everything and while its cost me around the $5000 mark in engine mods it really has improved the performance.

Also so as to CRD being hotter. The ecu adds extra fuel at the end of the combustion cycle to promote the cat cleaning the exhaust emissions so if you have e g t gauge you will be shocked by temps. Up to 700 or 800 when towing up hill if not careful. They are the reports from some users. It's designed to do this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Trol

Hi Jack and welcome back to Patrols. The CRD motor has a totally different fuel management system and they don't fail at the rate of the Di's. They have the same failure rates as other companies diesels (have mate in RAA).
First thing is to get tig welded inter cooler. Don't put that off. If you plan to remap ecu or chip it etc then go an upgraded ic but if happy to keep fairly stock then standard size is fine.

Next is the the scangauge as it reads faults and clears them as well as giving you engine info such as MAP, water temp, fuel usage, alternator output etc. let's you see what the engine sees. For $200 it's worth it. Just the engine water temp it displays can save the engine as it is almost instant and can show you what the engine is doing.

Then if if you want you can try a egr block. Scangauge will tell you if it's over boosting. If you keep the standard exhaust then should be fine. If bigger exhaust and egr block then over boosting for sure.

Cleaning the intake manifold of gunk is also important. Recently had Wynns egr cleaner put through the old girl and WOW! What a difference. Plan to use it next service until I don't see any more improvement. If you don't block egr then this might be a good regular service item to keep the intake manifold clear. Not as good as removing and cleaning by hand but I have to say the engine breathing improved dramatically with one can.

in my opinion either just do the few mods above as the CRD is a much different engine to the Di or go the whole hog. Not much middle ground. I opted for everything and while its cost me around the $5000 mark in engine mods it really has improved the performance.

Also so as to CRD being hotter. The ecu adds extra fuel at the end of the combustion cycle to promote the cat cleaning the exhaust emissions so if you have e g t gauge you will be shocked by temps. Up to 700 or 800 when towing up hill if not careful. They are the reports from some users. It's designed to do this.

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thanks for the info - did the search on the wynns EGR cleaner -just managed to buy a couple of bottles on eby from the UK - so will give that a go when it arrives in a week or so.

thanks for the comments.

I bit the bullet today and bought a catch can - put a baffle in it and filled it with steel wool.
Its not a provent like every says to get - but i had similar on my last patrol and found it worked great.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psqbgxif5i.jpg

Ive also ordered a new inter cooler off ebay as mine is leaking at the corners
Ordered 2 cans of the Wynns EGR cleaner, and purchased the EGR blocking plate.
Still debating about the IC fan, but thinking if I am installing a new IC i might as well go the whole hog and fit a fan underneath.

I already have an http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/ - its like a scan Gage, will tell me boost and clear codes.

I'm hesitant about the Exhaust temp gauge - had one on my last patrol and really felt like ti was a nice look - yep you can watch the temps, but i didn't find it supplied me any info that i used - i know these things run high temps so not 100% convinced seeing it will make any difference.

I'm figuring with the egr blocked, a catch can and a better more efficient Inter cooler i should be covered.

I'm not a heavy duty offroader - and don't tow, so really just want a reliable car to last me for a while.

Unless you plan to modify the engine a lot for more power then the EGT gauge is probably not needed. The CRD system will actually cut fuel if it detects that the engine is getting too hot or pinging. If the gauge you have tells you boost and water temp then its good enough.

The Wynn's stuff is hard to get here in Australia. They sell only through the trade. When it arrives be careful not to over do the doses. One second bursts and then let engine settle down again. 1500-2000 rpm etc. Some of the You tube videos show how to do it.
I had my EGR valve blocked for 18 months with the standard exhaust and it was fine. A little more boost (around 18 psi) but that's fine. When I had the 3 inch exhaust though it all changed and I needed a Dawes valve.

Agree... ^^^^
If you block EGR with a 2 3/4 or 3 inch exhaust then you will need to tweak the VNT or fit a Dawes.

I fit EGT not for limiting but so that I can monitor what any mods or adjustments are actually doing IE did I get a real world change or is it just a placebo/imagination.
Mine was chipped, tweaked, blocked and had exhaust and I/C mods because as I mentioned I tinker A LOT but for just a few standard mods I agree with R.T. in that it is not a big need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the evil twin

Agree... ^^^^
If you block EGR with a 2 3/4 or 3 inch exhaust then you will need to tweak the VNT or fit a Dawes.

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Thinking on it its probably good to get a dawes valve if you block the EGR as the ECU drops the boost when it opens the EGR valve. This is to allow the exhaust gas to enter otherwise the higher boost in the intake manifold will leak into the exhaust. Since its blocked it will be beneficial to take control away from the ECU.

well i decided to bit the bullet - fitter the Boost and EGT gauges, catch can , new inter cooler, blocker the EGR, and a Inter cooler fan

Results - running 100 deg lower at 110kmh
Boost maxing out at 18 PSI, but spooling up earlier - feels better to drive (not dawes or boost control fitted)

And i was very shocked at how much oil was in the old inter cooler and pipework before i fitter the new one.

here's the pics ....


http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps4rajr1d8.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps8bes8ffx.jpg

\http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psyhzcmwcj.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps3rpayhjd.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psvmh4vsjg.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pszzw9e0bl.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the evil twin

My CRD had 150,000 odd K's when I sold it... It also had full instrumentation and I love to tinker and experiment
First thing to get is a Scangauge or equivalent and an EGT gauge that way you know within about 10 degrees and 1/10th of a litre per 100 K's what is happening
Next, Anti-grenading is not req'd so mods are for performance only.
I/C fan, makes a difference on a stock I/C up to about 50 KPH... after that useless (works best as a puller)... took mine off after I stopped dicking around on sand etc
Chip and exhaust give measurable extra power
EGR block - block it fully and use the Scangauge to clear any codes... if you block EGR you may need to adjust the VNT
CRD's run hotter, boost higher and love to rev so get used to giving them a bit of welly to get up to cruise on the bitumen then back off.
Dawes? well, I went as far as buying one but sold it as my truck went gangbusters without one

Bottom line is they drive different to the Di's so just sit back and enjoy the fun

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This is so true. I read and speak with so many people and they say you don't need the NAD's, particularly the dawes and needle valve on a CRD. They are 100% right. But if you want you car to go even better why wouldn't you. As for over boosting. Not to worry, its not the overboosting that kills the lil'3ltrs, its underboosting. thanks to the marvelous effort of the ECU especially in the Di's. under boosting ='s too much fuel and not enough air which ='s extremely high cylinder temps which ='s melting pistons and cracked heads.
The CRD's are o.k with the ECU though, so no worry there.

Thanks for all the useful information in this thread.
I have a 2010 CRD and had been experiencing a similar dilemma to jack180. I have bought the scangauge which i have found very useful. No mods and boost rarely gets over 15psi - this seems to be the roof where the ECU cuts it out. I have not been using the water temp gauge function but sounds like i probably should.
I have just ordered a safari snorkel for it to make sure i have clean air going in. I was planning on getting a 3 in exhaust next but sounds like i maybe should get the dawes and needle valve at the same time (and probably do the EGR block while i'm at it)?
I would be confident tackling the exhaust and EGR block myself but sounds like the dawes and needle valve is something that should be fitted and adjusted by someone far more mechanically minded than myself. So might need to wait and do some more saving :(

If you buy a pipe, there is a good chance you will see limp mode, which is an overboost safety function. So if you can stretch it, get the dawes and needle valve at the same time. And block the egr too....

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Well a bit of an update.
After a few weeks of driving im pretty happy with the results. I did modify my catch can and made a baffle inside it. Its catching oil well now.
With the EGR blocked, new IC and IC fan I'm seeing lower EGTs - especially at highway speed.
I'm sticking with the standard exhaust, therefore im not going to install a dawes.
Ive been toying with fitting a snorkel. - I like the peace of mind for water crossings (not that i do that many), but I've hear a lot of horror stories about the CRDs using a lot more fuel once the snorkel is fitted.
I'm guessing the MAF gets a bit tricked and changes the fuel input?
Anyone else experience this?
Ive got 2 mates than have fitted snorkels to the CRD, and both went from about 11-12L/100 - to 15 to 18L/100
I'm not keen on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudski

If you buy a pipe, there is a good chance you will see limp mode, which is an overboost safety function. So if you can stretch it, get the dawes and needle valve at the same time. And block the egr too....

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

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Yeah i have just been looking on your ebay store actually and looks like i could have a go at the dawes and needle valve and EGR block myself for a reasonable price. I did get lost on the extra fittings required to get the boost to the dawes valve. Might just PM you to find out what i need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jack180

Well a bit of an update.
After a few weeks of driving im pretty happy with the results. I did modify my catch can and made a baffle inside it. Its catching oil well now.
With the EGR blocked, new IC and IC fan I'm seeing lower EGTs - especially at highway speed.
I'm sticking with the standard exhaust, therefore im not going to install a dawes.
Ive been toying with fitting a snorkel. - I like the peace of mind for water crossings (not that i do that many), but I've hear a lot of horror stories about the CRDs using a lot more fuel once the snorkel is fitted.
I'm guessing the MAF gets a bit tricked and changes the fuel input?
Anyone else experience this?
Ive got 2 mates than have fitted snorkels to the CRD, and both went from about 11-12L/100 - to 15 to 18L/100
I'm not keen on that.

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No that doesn't sound great - will let you know what happens with mine when i get it fitted next week. sounds like computer might need some tweaking if that is the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jack180

Well a bit of an update.
After a few weeks of driving im pretty happy with the results. I did modify my catch can and made a baffle inside it. Its catching oil well now.
With the EGR blocked, new IC and IC fan I'm seeing lower EGTs - especially at highway speed.
I'm sticking with the standard exhaust, therefore im not going to install a dawes.
Ive been toying with fitting a snorkel. - I like the peace of mind for water crossings (not that i do that many), but I've hear a lot of horror stories about the CRDs using a lot more fuel once the snorkel is fitted.
I'm guessing the MAF gets a bit tricked and changes the fuel input?
Anyone else experience this?
Ive got 2 mates than have fitted snorkels to the CRD, and both went from about 11-12L/100 - to 15 to 18L/100
I'm not keen on that.

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I find that rather odd. I would dare to say their cars run better due to the extra air flow so they might be a bit heavier on the right foot now having that little extra oomf! Having said that have they got a boost gauge or the NAD's fitted? I know that if you have a boost gauge and no NAD's you will see your boost levels fluctuating a fair bit, which will affect fuel eco. Running the NADs will even out the boost fluctuations, make the engine far more responsive and better on fuel. But then you just drive it harder again... :0

CRD are thirstier than the "Mighty Di" I would wait for ppl
like Kevin07 and Hodge and others for real world fuel figures

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jack180

Ive got 2 mates than have fitted snorkels to the CRD, and both went from about 11-12L/100 - to 15 to 18L/100
I'm not keen on that.

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This is news to me as well.... the general consensus as I understand is that a snorkel provides a minor improvement in fuel usage - but the CRD can be a fiddly beast

My CRD (33" muddies, AUTO, barwork, roof rack etc) is definately on heavier side for fuel use -- around 16L/100km around town (mainly short trips though) and pushes out to around 20L/100km on high country low range trips, I did not noticed any increase in fuel usage post snorkel install....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bacho86

This is news to me as well.... the general consensus as I understand is that a snorkel provides a minor improvement in fuel usage - but the CRD can be a fiddly beast

My CRD (33" muddies, AUTO, barwork, roof rack etc) is definately on heavier side for fuel use -- around 16L/100km around town (mainly short trips though) and pushes out to around 20L/100km on high country low range trips, I did not noticed any increase in fuel usage post snorkel install....

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Not to turn this into a fuel figure thread but 33's wouldnt be helping your cause
.and 265's are just too small except for hwy only duties.
I would never have thought fitting a snorkle would raise your figures, cleaner ,cooler air
learn something every day.

Bottom line is you need to control your boost or atleast see what its doing.
other wise you're just driving blind not knowing what happening under the bonnet.
being able to control your boost after any modification has to be a good thing.