So the the old GUrl is up for new suspension. Torn between 3 or 4inch.

I'm pickup some new 35's tomorrow. I was under the troll yesty putting the locker back in and took, yet another, look at the shocks on my OME kit and they are fubar. Springs are shagged too. As it stands now, I have 25mm spacers in there and it sits exactly the same it did when the 2inch OME kit was put in 10 years ago. So its definitely fubar. Now I first had in mind a 4inch lift but as I run around with 31inch roadies on its gonna look crap and I reckon it might be cop bait like this too. So then I'm thinking should I just go a 3inch kit. But will the 3inch be enough for the 35's?
I realise I need drop boxes , front and rear panhards but the control arms do I need upper or lower for the rear? BA and myself were chatting and he has longer lowers but then I see a comment MR has said about using upper arms. These need to be shorter don't they? Which do I need or can get away with for now until the funds are better to get both. I'd love to get both as I would obviously get stronger ones but I don't think I can stretch the budget right now.

Cheers.

My neighbour's gu sat on 3 inch and ran 35's.... not issue at all from memory.

Thanks. My mind keeps telling me I'm technically over the legal limit anyway, just go the 4inch. But then I think if I go 3inch it won't look as sus with the roadies on. Unless I find some 33inch AT's at a good price I might be good for 4inch. But then its more $$$. Arghh! The more I spend here the more I take from the TD42 build savings, which is almost the lot already.

there is a big difference between a 3" and a 4" lift Mark. A 3" lift you will Not Need Panards front or rear, you will not need Uppers or Lowers. Big $$ savings there for sure.

My GUIV has a 3" lift. Drop Boxes, HD Drag link, Brake lines shocks and springs. I run HD lower arms as they are very exposed and i like strong stuff, standard length though and no dramas at all. My GQ runs standard length lowers and adjustable uppers to realign the pinion angle of the rear diff.

additionally for a 4" lift you will need front and rear Panards, Adjustable Upper trailing arms (there is basically $1000 added to the lift)

Why not a Flexi coil 3" job will flex 4" easy
Other than having to get it engineered what will a 4" do a 3" wont.
even a good 2" will see you go most places, with a locker even better

I took MR 's advice and went a 3 inch lift. Not so tall it's cop bait, but tall enough for most things. Keeps centre of gravity that little lower aswell. I run 35's and had to cut the back of the front guard and the back of the rear guard aswell as the quarter chop. I ran the original lower arms and on full flex the tyres tucked up perfectly in the guards! I did change them to standard length superior items because they are weak as piss! I also run adjustable panhards after I bent my rear one into a boomerang. I also run 31's sometimes and it looks ridiculous. It looks like a skateboard! I changed my lower control arms because they are a known weak point. The old ones were about 2kg and the new ones 8.5kg. A little stronger! Also if you do change your lower with superior don't just say you want standard length because they are not all the same as I found out. So you need to measure them, My standard length lower arms are actually + 10mm from superior.

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

there is a big difference between a 3" and a 4" lift Mark. A 3" lift you will Not Need Panards front or rear, you will not need Uppers or Lowers. Big $$ savings there for sure.

My GUIV has a 3" lift. Drop Boxes, HD Drag link, Brake lines shocks and springs. I run HD lower arms as they are very exposed and i like strong stuff, standard length though and no dramas at all. My GQ runs standard length lowers and adjustable uppers to realign the pinion angle of the rear diff.

additionally for a 4" lift you will need front and rear Panards, Adjustable Upper trailing arms (there is basically $1000 added to the lift)

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Thanks Darren. You reckon the 3inch will be good with 35's though? Or am I just better off going 4 and be done with it?

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Originally Posted by threedogs

Why not a Flexi coil 3" job will flex 4" easy
Other than having to get it engineered what will a 4" do a 3" wont.
even a good 2" will see you go most places, with a locker even better

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Its more for the tyre size too John. 35's under a 2inch lift is gonna be real close I reckon. The 2inch is o.k but if I'm doing it. Why not go a little higher? What will getting it engineered prove? Its still technically illegal isn't it? Engineered or not?

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Originally Posted by 89gqpatrol4x4

I took MR 's advice and went a 3 inch lift. Not so tall it's cop bait, but tall enough for most things. Keeps centre of gravity that little lower aswell. I run 35's and had to cut the back of the front guard and the back of the rear guard aswell as the quarter chop. I ran the original lower arms and on full flex the tyres tucked up perfectly in the guards! I did change them to standard length superior items because they are weak as piss! I also run adjustable panhards after I bent my rear one into a boomerang. I also run 31's sometimes and it looks ridiculous. It looks like a skateboard! I changed my lower control arms because they are a known weak point. The old ones were about 2kg and the new ones 8.5kg. A little stronger! Also if you do change your lower with superior don't just say you want standard length because they are not all the same as I found out. So you need to measure them, My standard length lower arms are actually + 10mm from superior.

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Thanks but you have a GQ. Different story with a GU mate. I won't be going down the quarter chop route aswell. Not for a long time...

How good are flexi coils too? Damn expensive they are...

3 inch is enough for the 35s. when I had them on with my 2" the only place they rubbed was on the fuel filler guard (plastic easily remoulded with a heat gun) and on full flex up in the rear wheel arch just above the chassis

You can fit 35s on a 2 inch lift with a GU. A mate has a 4 inch GU with 33s and it looks stupid.

Personally I like a 3 inch lift on a GU with 35's...

Why did Simon (ARB) insist on me getting 4 inch shocks to go with a 3 inch lift???

engineered will see you legal wouldn't it, still think 3" flexi coils would be the go.
, not a fan of going too far away from OE just more things to go wrong
Going 35" is illegal anyway isn't it

35's is always illegal unless engineered

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Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie

Personally I like a 3 inch lift on a GU with 35's...

Why did Simon (ARB) insist on me getting 4 inch shocks to go with a 3 inch lift???

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But you have the extra lift with the thicker spring pads. If you didn't i would see the longer shocks bottoming out, but giving you longer travel... Can someone please confirm this?
I fail to see how getting an engineers cert for 35's will make it right though...
Where the best place for flexi coils? They are dearer but might be the better choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by threedogs

engineered will see you legal wouldn't it, still think 3" flexi coils would be the go.
, not a fan of going too far away from OE just more things to go wrong
Going 35" is illegal anyway isn't it

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Flexy coils are really designed for weight. They are a progressive spring.
Lineal rate coils are the way to go

I also dont understand how 3 inch lift and standard panards can be ok... every 3 inch lift I have seen and even installed without changing the the panhards there is a visible difference in the location of the diffs side to side.

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

I also dont understand how 3 inch lift and standard panards can be ok... every 3 inch lift I have seen and even installed without changing the the panhards there is a visible difference in the location of the diffs side to side.

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I swear by Panhards on a 3 inch lift... when we had my car on the hoist everything was hitting until I fitted adjustable panhards..

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

Flexy coils are really designed for weight. They are a progressive spring.
Lineal rate coils are the way to go

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Ben. I do tow a heavy camper too. But not all the time obviously. My shagged 2inch lift doesn't move when I hook the trailer up aswell. So you wouldn't recommend flexi coils? I think 3inch will be the way to go. If I need to get panhards etc etc then so be it.
I have been quote on Dobinsons 3inch coils and 4inch Tough Dog shocks, both 41mm bore and the adjustable 45mm bore. Do I still go the 4inch shock?

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

there is a big difference between a 3" and a 4" lift Mark. My GQ runs standard length lowers and adjustable uppers to realign the pinion angle of the rear diffll..

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I am confused on this. I have seen they sell longer lower arms, to tilt the pinion angle up. But you have the opposite. So the upper arms would need to be shorter yes?
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I might ring ARB tomorrow to see how much they would sting me on a 3inch OME kit. I'm tipping its going to be a lot but I need to know. As I don't want to be riding a brick too.

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

I also dont understand how 3 inch lift and standard panards can be ok... every 3 inch lift I have seen and even installed without changing the the panhards there is a visible difference in the location of the diffs side to side.

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My GUIV sits perfectly centred on 3" lifted coils and standard panards. Within 5mm at ride height. The adjustable panards are there to centre ride height. I had adjustable a to go on it but did not fit them as it sat right. Been on these coils for 5 years now and still sits perfect

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Originally Posted by lucus30

35's is always illegal unless engineered

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You can't get 35s Engineered unfortunately. Damn it!

No one can answer my question...Benny????

Mark I fit 35s under the GUIV with ease. I will be running the 35s again for the Simpson trip because they are the Best tyres I have. I will have no clearance issues.

Yoohoo............ I am over here ???????

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Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie

Personally I like a 3 inch lift on a GU with 35's...

Why did Simon (ARB) insist on me getting 4 inch shocks to go with a 3 inch lift???

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Because some will argue that the 4" shock will fit fine and given it's longer will allow for longer downward travel on articulation therefore providing better flex. The drawback though is the potential for the shock to be too long at ride height and you have a restricted or shortened compression as the compressed length is longer and it could bottom out within the travel of the spring. This is why they also talk about increasing the bump stops to limit that compression because your shocks are too long ;)

I woudnt recommend progressive rate coil like the SS flexy, they have their place, not for an all round tourer IMO
You can put as big a shock as you want as long as it is set up right.

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

Because some will argue that the 4" shock will fit fine and given it's longer will allow for longer downward travel on articulation therefore providing better flex. The drawback though is the potential for the shock to be too long at ride height and you have a restricted or shortened compression as the compressed length is longer and it could bottom out within the travel of the spring. This is why they also talk about increasing the bump stops to limit that compression because your shocks are too long ;)

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Thanks Darren, that wasn't so hard now was it.... Mudski shut and buy stuff!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie

No one can answer my question...Benny????

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What question?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie

Mudski shut and buy stuff!!!!!!!!!!

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No you!!! Its alright for you! Your truck is set. Mine ain't.
O.k as this will be my daily right I think I need to go 3inch??? Everyone agree? Yes? Rememnber I don't want to end up a paraplegic from hard as rock suspension
1. I have been quoted on 3inch Dobinsons and also Tough Dog. $140 price between the two, TD's being the dearer. Is it worth the extra coin?
2. The shockersI have been quoted on are Tough dogs again 41mm bore and 45mm Adjustables. I am leaning towards the 45mm ones. These are 4inch too. Will these work???
3. Drop boxes I will definitely get
4. Front and rear panhards I will get. I don't have the time to get caught out. I have basically less than five days to get this stuff and fit it.
5. Longer rear lower control arms I will get. Same as above...
6. Should I look at upper control arms?

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

What question?

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this one....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie

Why did Simon (ARB) insist on me getting 4 inch shocks to go with a 3 inch lift???

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Mark... Why are you going 3 inch? For the driving you do, 2 inch would be plenty.

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Originally Posted by Winnie

Mark... Why are you going 3 inch? For the driving you do, 2 inch would be plenty.

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That bit of extra height is always good isn't it? Besides the whole suspension is rooted. I might aswell go a bit different. If this wasn't my daily driver I would just go 4 and be done with it.

I dislike the whole concept of Longer lower trailing arms as the solution for adjusting the pinion angle. It's illogical! It is mathematically incorrect in my head.

So one of the reasons for changing the length of the trailing arms also is to provide guard clearance when the vehicle articulates and the tyres go up into the wheel arch. The wheel arch on a gu is huge so it's not that big a deal for you. By increasing the length of the power arms you arm risking the tyre as hong into the Back of the wheel arch on the way up.

I have read plenty with this problem so they trim guards......WTF??? Fit standardlength arms and you don't create this problem??

Illogical! Fit longer trailing arms, cause rear wheel arch damage, trim guards. Or run standard length and have no issues.

Fitting 10mm longer arms is not the same as. Bene"s Long Arms. That is a whole other conversation. Completely different logic involved there.

Thanks Darren that makes sense...So the upper arms need to be shorter yes? No longer.... :tongue:

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Originally Posted by mudski

Thanks Darren that makes sense...So the upper arms need to be shorter yes?

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Yes I would go adjustable uppers and HD standard length lowers.

I have Superiors 4140 Chromoly lower trailing arms on both cars. No brainer addition.

I would expect the longer lower arms to bring the wheelbase to where it should be

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

I would expect the longer lower arms to bring the wheelbase to where it should be

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Aw Gawd!!!! That what I was thinking but geometry and me aren't the best of friends.

I'll get the adjustable uppers first. Leave the lowers for now and instal the lift. I'm going away on the weekend after this Past Mansfield. I'll see what its like.

So as to getting 4inch shocks? O.k? I should be measuring the travel first though I'm thinking...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

I would expect the longer lower arms to bring the wheelbase to where it should be

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I don't disagree with that Bene at all. At ride height they probably do reposition the rear diff back maybe 6 or 7mm allowing for the radius of the trailing arm at a increased angle. My bitch with it though is what it does to the wheel base as soon as it flexes, at that point it fully increases the wheel base by the whole 10mm or 16mm depending on the length you buy and all of that is Behind the Rear Diff and all of it risks impact with the rear of the guards.

I am not sure what the 6 or 7mm correction will provide in terms of handling benefits? Some? Maybe? The down side of that though is there and it's just as real. IMO. I know you have you head around the Geometry far better than I do mate and would be happy to hear what your thoughts are on the 6mm versus the 10mm on compression?

You will also get some of that wheel base correction when you adjust the upper arms to drop the pinion down again. Maybe half the loss I'd reckon?