Hi, just getting my first patrol shortly and presumed that the bolted on loop on the middle of the rear bumper is a suitable recovery point for towing and snatch recovery as i've read you should never use a tow ball. Am i correct about this ?
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Hi, just getting my first patrol shortly and presumed that the bolted on loop on the middle of the rear bumper is a suitable recovery point for towing and snatch recovery as i've read you should never use a tow ball. Am i correct about this ?
No mate that is not a rated recovery point so cannot be trusted. In my opinion the best way to go is to put a recovery hitch into your Hayman Reece hitch receiver like this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Recovery-...ht_2239wt_1139
Another way to go is to remove the tow hitch and poke the strap through the hole and then replace the pin.
But you are definitely correct about not using the tow ball as a recovery point, that is the number 1 no-no!
Check out this thread Al, but dont use that loop for a snatch whatever ya do mate http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...e-Fundamentals
The front factory hook can not be trusted either
Fit these to the front
http://www.lukeys4x4.com/products/im...pointsGUGQ.jpg
and one of these to the rear
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2012/04/62.jpg
Interesting question BigAl.H.
There are a few threads on here that contain a lot of valuable information, and peoples' opinions.
You need a set up that both recoverer and recoveree are happy with, as well as being safe.
For instance, I have fitted the front plates pictured above, despite being personally comfortable with the factory hook at the front of my GQ. No point stressing a potential recoverer who does not thinkg the same as me. Or stressing myself because no one will hook up :-)
I also bought one of those fittings that go into the tow bar receiver, however I have since learned that the general (but not universal) consensus is that the factory tow bar pin is just as good.
Opinions on this might differ, too, but I think that if it is a snatch recovery, the snatch strap should be the weakest link. Better to have a strap fail than have a strap pull a bit of metalwork off a chassis and launch it. Slow and steady and adequate preparation should keep the stresses and strains within sensible levels.
if that loop at the back of the car is not rated for recovery what is it there for
It is suitable for towing or as a tie down point.
Tappa tappa
ok cheers mate
I have seen one of the factory hooks fail (lucky no one was injured) and the dent it put in the steel tray of the ute recovering the Gq was unbelievable.
The problem with the factory hook is it's welded to a plate and where it is welded it cracks then snap's.
It maybe right for a few recovery's but are you willing to risk your life or someone else's life?
Good on you AL for asking though mate. Never know if you didn't ask and now you know and might have saved some damage or a life mate!
I would not recommend using the loop for anything other than a tie down point, that is my personal opinion.............better to be safe than sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan&tamspatrol
so is there a rated recovery point at the back at all i dont have towbarQuote:
Originally Posted by The Dogman
No there is not as far as I know, well not on my last 2 Patrols.... I would recommend that you purchase a Hayman Reece tow bar, having said that, if you are purchasing the Patrol from a dealer ask them to throw one on your Patrol for free as a condition of sale, never know they may do it for you.
My uncle told me he saw an ad for the GQ when it was brand new and it was towing from that hook.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dogman
Unfortunately not mate............ Some one will correct me if I'm wrong but you could attached recovery points to the rear chassis as you would on the front. I've seen guys make a new rear bumper and incorporate recover points......failing that, time for a tow bar...... All options cost a little money but would rather pay out now than pay for it with something else laterQuote:
Originally Posted by dan&tamspatrol
Tap Tap Tap with me hammer, saw saw saw with me saw......
Well that's the first reliable eye witness report of the hook separating that I've heard. I've heard of a few straightening - which in a way might be better than a separation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benno7
In any event, I don't have one any more.
already got the car man looking at getting towbar but there are other things need doing to it first before i get one
cheers
Pretty sure it's ok to tow with the hooks but I wouldn't do a snatch recovery with themQuote:
Originally Posted by KRISTOFFA
Tap Tap Tap with me hammer, saw saw saw with me saw......
yes, there was. There was a TV ad where a GQ towed a car ferry across a river.Quote:
Originally Posted by KRISTOFFA
Note, 'towed'. Not with a 12tonne snatch strap and several metres of flat out run up :-) Or even a 6 or 8 tonner with the recommended short and steady run up.
Yeah that's probably the one.
But as said definitely not a recovery point, but I believe that it is perfectly safe for towing.
It is a recovery point and was addressed as such by Nissan in the past. The animated debate that arises on Forums does so because Nissan have not rated it. The second reason is that many people think "recovery" means a Snatch Strap RecoveryQuote:
Originally Posted by dan&tamspatrol
Very, very few manufacturers will supply a rating to a point and certainly Nissan, Toyota, Ford and Iveco (whom I am familiar with to small extent) are ones who pretty much do not. AFAIK they will, at best, sometimes indicate if a point is only suitable for transport tiedown
You can have attachement points and equipment that are perfectly adequate for one type of recovery and unsuitable for another.
You can have recovery points that are approved by organisations or after market manufacturers as well. An example is the approved attachement points and procedures used by Emergency Organisations on their vehicles.
Another example is after market recovery plates such as Benno7 posted. I have them on my vehicle as do many, many others. Sure they are "rated" by the manuf but there is no Aussie or Industry Standard like there is for Shackles and other rigging so what does the rating mean if there is no standard?.
What about the bolts, the point of attachement to the chassis/vehicle and the procedure that will be employed... is it Ok for the tremendous forces of a Snatch recovery... do the users understand sling angle loads and/or mechanical advantages in the rigging... have people assessed the apparent weight of the mired vehicle due to stiction or other factors.
Have I ever or will I ever use "that loop" or the front Tow Hook to assist in manageable loading recovery techniques such as winching or vehicle stabilising, Yes. Have I ever or will I ever use it as a snatch strap attachement point which is an almost unmanageable technique for limiting recovery stresses, Hell No.
Snatch Straps are the most god awful dangerous things we have in our 4X's and also the least understood with no Aust Standard (other than a product Standard) which is were the problem lies.
So are the red plates rated recovery points? are they the same ones that are sold in ARB stores?
The ARB sales guy I was talking to said that they are not rated????
edit, I just read ET post above and that answered my question.
Hiya Cobber,Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
Good on ARB for that actually.
You can get them from a whole heap of manuf's. Some will stamp a rating on them most won't. My understanding is that the ones with ratings have been calculated using the steel materials specification and the distance from the hole to the plate edge to arrive at a number... or... they can equally just pluck 'em outa their butt.
There is no Standard so nothing they can be held to anyway. Same as a Snatch strap, if an 8,000 jobbie snaps at 4,000 it is just tough.
But you raise an interestiong question in... So what is the point of replacing an unrated hook with an unrated plate?
Hey ET,Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
That's a good point.
Even if the hook is unrated, it is still a recovery point as stated by Nissan in the owners handbook.
quote "Use the towing hooks only to free a vehicle stuck in sand, snow, mud, etc"
So what best? fit an unrated aftermarket plate? and what if this fail?....or.....Use the hook as recommended by Nissan? and what if this fails?
Why is this so complicated?
I would like to thank Big AL for starting this thread, as well all know safety comes first....good on you mate for asking the question
I have seen a gq with a broken recovery hook on the front no idea how it happened but they obviously do break.
its pretty silly of nissan to build a 4x4 and not clearly specify something this important
Not really if you think about it........ They can't be held liable or accountable if something tragic happensQuote:
Originally Posted by dan&tamspatrol
Tap Tap Tap with me hammer, saw saw saw with me saw......
yea good pointQuote:
Originally Posted by clunk71
Thanks for all the feed back guy's i think i have decided to use a tow bar/Hayman Reece recovery hitch on the rear and fit a recovery plate to the front just in case i ever get in a snatch strap recovery situation and use the rear loop in the middle of the bumper if i just need to tow some one.
2nd thoughts if i have a Hayman Reece recovery hitch i would not need to use the rear loop and may just unbolt it all together.
i snapped a stock recovery hook off my hilux when i knocked down a tree 4wheeling in Toowoomba dan (danandtamspatrol)was there and saw the whole thing. and i don’t believe i hit that hard also.
some of the sets are relatively cheep but i would prob fit one on ea side
I'd leave the loop there - if nothing else you can tie a canoe etc on roof bars down to it :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAL.H
If you search back in this forum on recovery you will find a heap of stuff, including other info from ET and others including the use of bridles. Provided it is long enough, a suitably rated webbing strap bridle attached to a recovery point on each chassis rail can be better than just one. If nothing else, it can help keep major loads more even across the chassis. But, it needs to be long enough - a short bridle can make the loads worse. Here is a link where ET talks about bridles http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ghlight=bridle
It really is worth doing a bit of a search to look at existing threads, and also there are some good manuals linked to this site as well. Search on Recovery, Recovery Point, Bridle, Snatch, etc
G’day folks.
Here’s another option for recovery points. This is what I have on DX grunt.
Please, please do not compromise or improvise on safety. If you have to, save up.
Personally, I would not buy second hand recovery gear, but that’s my choice.
There’s been enough threads and advice in signatures about towing/snatching with a towball. Flying towballs do kill, injure and damage!
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...pcradle001.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...pcradle002.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ripprep002.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ripprep005.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ripprep001.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ypoints001.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...oints002-1.jpg
I have front recovery points on both sides and use a bridle to distribute the weight evenly when being recovered. Having said that, I've never been recovered using my new equipment. Wayne, where are you and your GQ? PML
Take care out there.
Rossco
your right we didnt hit that hard at allQuote:
Originally Posted by megatexture
glad this war brought up , cleared my mind.
I concur!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Tim
ET, I was thinking along some lines you started on. An after market recovery point is only as good as the bolts used. What rating are the high tensile bolts that are attaching the plates to the chasis. Aren't high tensile made to snap when over loaded? Mild steel will bend. Towbars are Mild steel welded at certain lenghts, angles and points to increase their strength. They are rated to TOW the loads stated. They are not fitted as recovery points( go on, go check). We as offroaders take it for granted that we can slip in that receiver and do a recovery, trust that towbar, and the bolts holding it!
If one of those recovery point plates come off one day, by breaking bolts and go through a rear of a 4WD, or even a Bow shackle that breaks a pin and does the same thing, what will we say then, what advice for recoveries will we give then.
Don't anyone think fo a momemnet it can't or won't happen, because it can and will, because many DIY's don't know the ratings of high tensile bolts. And we as humans become lazy and forget to check our chasis and attachments for cracks, rust, and loose/worn bolts.
I believe broken Factory hooks have been used in a heavy snatch and left unchecked for a long time, resulting in failure when it was needed again. I am no engineer, but, I believe I have a good understanding of metal fatigue, and equipment misuse.
I personally believe, the less metal positively attached to a snatch strap, the less chance of a missile. I believe The pin in the towbar through the snatch strap eye and the strap onto the factory recovery hook with a dampner will perform most recoveries safely. It comes back to appropiate action for each recovery.
Well That's my thoughts Tim
Some other points to consider are what you are attaching the recovery point to how are you using it. I have seen pictures of several recovery points that have failed not because of the rated hook but because what it was attached to was not suitable for example only bolting to one side of the chaisie instead of right through and using crush tubes to prevent overtightening and deforming the chaisie. I also bedleive that we need to make sure that the method of recovery that is going to be used is the corect one and not just the quick and easy.
I understand that I am new here and these are just my thoughts
P.S plesae forgive my spelling
I agree whole heartedly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank
Tim
PS new or not you have the right to express your thoughts here equally.
So the best thing to do is not get bogged, or get into a situation where a snatch recovery is required in the first place............. oh or don't be lazy and dig yourself out as much as possible so just a nice easy tow is all that's required ........ or a set of maxtrax or similar.
Tap off!!!!!!!