Hmmmmm, dunno bout that, bit risky!!Quote:
Originally Posted by P4trol
Cheers, the ferret.
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Hmmmmm, dunno bout that, bit risky!!Quote:
Originally Posted by P4trol
Cheers, the ferret.
Very interesting. Im just starting up a small 4x4 business myself. I sell Dobinsons etc and there is no way I can compete with Tigerz11 prices. I am very interested to see what comes of this. To be honest I cant even be bothered watching the 4wd action DVD's anymore. Whoever is their sposor at the time just gets flogged to the point of being annoying. Currently there is an Automatic specialist joining roothy on his trips. Now all of a sudden roothy keeps plugging how much better Auto's are and "especially" when theyre fiddled with by this particular company. Why is he driving The Red Truck and Gleno driving the Auto Patrol when this auto specialist tags along.
Im a risk taker..Quote:
Originally Posted by the ferret
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
Did y hear that ferret? All the risk has been taken. All you have to do is 'like' it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gas_Guzzler4800
All the best with your new business. Use your eyes, ears and work out where your niche is. As you have pointed out, it probably won't be in the 'low priced bulk sales poor quality' area.
There are other elements that people like other than price. Quality (well finished and engineered) , innovative and well thought out. Good after sales service. The more of these you can combine, the easier it will thrive with your business skills.
There is more, I'm sure you think I'm telling you to suck eggs. What I'm trying to say is, do your research.
4wdaction Forum are starting a new thread called "Ask a Expert" 4wdtv have been doing thins for ages, just another idea they cant come with so they take someone else's idea and claim it as there own
"Did y hear that ferret? All the risk has been taken. All you have to do is 'like' it!"
Yeah, hear'n it, just don't like it much.
Cheers, the ferret.
I dont do failbook, and admit i have, and will buy more Tigerz stuff, (very happy with it BTW), but that pic still has me laughing westy :clapping:Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
I know heaps of ppl who pulled their ads from 4wd Monthly/action, because of all the DIY segments.. All went to shite when Liam took over IMO
Massive "important notice" gone up on 4wda site
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/
I love reading the line "as long as the customer wins"...Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
When you take there money, sell them crap which breaks within warranty but don't bother to deal with them and do them over, pretty sure we aint winning...
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
yeah i hate the repitition of things like: "your hard earned money" "quality gear for less so you and your family can enjoy this great country" etc etc the mags and websites are always full of that stuff and i feel its very condescending
Some of his statements hold true!Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
Onanism of biblical proportions.Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
I know a guy who used to write for one of the groups publications, advertorials was a polite way he was told to write to make the advertisers products look good and non advertisers got no mention.
Is it possible to be an Onanistic tart?
Here is the important message from the 4wda site.
I will put my opinion in red. But i want to be clear that it is my opinion only and not necessarily that of this forum.
I am Charles Vella, the owner of Express Media Group which I founded 26 years ago. We publish 4WD Action. I also have a financial interest in Tigerz11 and Roo Systems.
I started 4WD Action over 200 issues ago with a view to cover the 4WD lifestyle and help 4WDers enjoy the Aussie bush for less money. Other prominent 4WD media was then, and still is, mainly concerned with expensive new vehicles and products. Is that true? i wasnt reading mags back then.
For 15 years 4WD Action has been showing the average Australian that you don’t need lots of money to enjoy the bush with your mates and family. This is largely the reason why 4WD Action is so popular today. i would suggest heavy marketing, including a mascot like roothy taken up at a time when 4wding is becoming more popular is the reason behind greater public interest
Almost 12 months ago I declared publically my intention to be financially involved in 4WD products. Our many years of testing 4WD products showed us that it’s not always the most expensive products that are the best. In nearly every case, the products that did the job and represented great value for money won our product comparisons. a lot of us have had a sneaking suspicion that the comparisons were never completely unbiased A year ago I decided to invest in 4WD products as I saw a real need for better priced aftermarket gear that more Australians could afford. i would say its more likely that being part of a magazine and watching the amount of money people were spending on products made you realise that there was an easy dollar to be made considering the amount of inside information on product and procedure
I have chosen to personally explain my take on the 4WD Industry as there are many untruths being circulated. I choose not to hide behind my own media and share with you what you are not being told. As far as I see it, 4WDers deserve to know where their hard-earned money is going. I dont know who is hiding? I have seen plenty of public emails circulating
The decision to get involved in the selling of products was met with a great deal of industry outrage but much support from our readers – in fact, our readership in the 12 months to March grew 18%. This tells us that our readers believe we have made the right decision. Again, i think heavy marketing and the use of the 4wda mascot has had more influence in readership increase. I dont think the average joe blow decided to buy the magazine more frequently because they believe a good business deal was made.
The financial cost of my decision was the cancellation or non-renewal of over $2 million dollars of advertising. We expected this to happen, as Tigerz and Roo competed directly with some of our advertisers, but someone had to give the public access to more affordable prices for quality 4WD and camping gear so that they could enjoy the outdoors.
At the 5 big shows Tigerz and Roo attended many fans applauded (really?, they clapped?) us for giving them access to affordable products. The response at these shows has simply been overwhelming, and I can understand this would have upset some competitors. people love to go see the mascot and get that slight sense of being part of something famous
The recent banning of Roo Systems and Tigerz11 from the Melbourne 4x4 Show will deprive our audience from visiting these companies’ stands. are we still calling it a banning?
The same show promoter still wishes to advertise in our magazines for that same show! Despite the treatment we received we will run their ads. I guess the magazine may be legally obligated to keep the adds going? i dont know that for sure but i reckon if they could, then they would remove the adds
We are providing to 4WDers what Aldi and Costco are providing in other markets – not everyone can afford top brands. that is true and no-one has questioned that
I have put everything on the line and borrowed against my assets to fund the stock that is being provided to dealers – all products are supplied on consignment, so that the public can buy their gear at the online price, but can save freight by picking up locally.
We know how hard it is for small business and have fully funded all our Australian dealers by giving them the products to sell with no outlay upfront for the business owner. They only pay us for goods after they have sold them. Because of this unique structure, that no other 4WD company has offered, our dealers are growing their businesses and creating new jobs for Australians. its a system which has been designed in the past for maximum exposure and product flooding
It saddens me to hear false accusations that we are taking away jobs from Australians, when in fact we are creating many of them. Maybe if other players in the industry offered the same opportunities for small business and lowered their own profit margin, maybe even more jobs could be added.
I know that most products you buy for your 4WD are made in Asia, including many of the vehicles themselves. Don’t be fooled by claims of supporting Australian industry – many of the products that Tigerz and Roo sell compete with imports made in the same countries as some competitors’ products. some, but are we still talking about "the big 3"?
While our products like most others are made overseas we have created many new jobs for Australians. Our dealer network is over 50 companies strong, and growing rapidly. ofcourse its in your best interest to to have a bigger dealer network.
I have risked what has taken 26 years to build to ensure the public can get decent products cheaply. This is very much a David and Goliath battle – I am doing this with my own money, and taking on a whole industry. is that a violin? i think instead of "david and goliath battle" and "taking on a whole industry" you have realised that you can make money in the industry that you have been a part of for a long time. The frequent and aggresive ad campaigns are more than any other "little guy" has ever done and the reason that the business is aimed that way is because its based on advertising not manufacturing, coming from a media background
People have accused me of being greedy, but this fight has cost me plenty.
The industry needs a shake-up.
Look at air-travel – we needed Virgin to get a better deal. and they are more likely to lose you bags
Look at the cost of accommodation – WOTIF.com and similar sites changed that landscape.
Look at the increasing popularity of Aldi and Costco. they didnt bring their marketing in through the back door of a prominent and widely distributed magazine
Tigerz11 and Roo Systems operate on modest margins, and the buyer enjoys the benefit.
Many aftermarket manufacturers will say that a lot of the reason for their higher prices is to justify the cost of R&D. Even using an estimate of the industry employing up to 100 engineers and even assuming they are paid $100,000 each that’s $10 million. We are talking about an industry that is turning over around $1 billion annually – that equates to around 1% of turnover being spent on R&D. We also invest a lot of money on R&D yet our prices are still much lower. firslty its not you against a whole industry, secondly HOW much do you invest in r&d? why is there next to no innovation and all the products seem to be cheap copies?
It is beyond belief that anyone from the public, the media, or the 4WD industry can question the morals of a much smaller company, such as ours, risking everything to offer customers better deals. when can you stop pulling the "small company" card? and to say your risking all seems a little bit like your trying to make people feel sorry for you?
Who is really standing up for the battlers? (battler? stop being so condescending) Much of the 4WD industry along with some media outlets, that stand to benefit from the increased advertising their support brings, is fighting against us.(they're not doing it because theyre dumb, they do it because they genuinly feel they dont like aspects of the last couple of years of your business dealings) I’m not telling you which products to buy and never will. I just want 4WDers to have more choice.(so you act in a way that effectively removes choice and comparison in a widely circulated 4wd magazine? and bombard every email address on the mailing list with masses of products from only two companies) As long as the customer wins, 4WDing will only benefit as a whole. Without more companies and the public challenging the big players of the industry, prices will never become affordable.
Competition of this kind, while upsetting to some established players is what the industry and 4WDers badly need. I have never been afraid to fight for what I believe is right, nor stand up for those who I believe are being unfairly treated.
If I have been able to contribute in making 4WDing more affordable in Australia I will consider our efforts to be worthwhile. safer though?
Charles Vella
i just had to look up the meaning of Onanistic. lol i agree totally timQuote:
Originally Posted by TimE
oh and did everyone see the mass of scrolling adds under the statement? usual mass advertising
Stick your reply Lucas as a post on there fb page..
My pic is still up on all 3 sites.. :what:
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
Pat callinghan even liked my pic.. Mr 4x4 himself. Top bloke.. :D
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
link to 4wdtv facebook Classic
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
haha thats great:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced Offroad
just jumped back on the forum as i justed noticed it... Article from his magQuote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...psd98458a5.jpg
Who knows, if Warn winches were not so dear, Tigerz may never have got feet!!!
Hey mateQuote:
Originally Posted by NP99
Warn have Sell there entry level winches called Tabor. 1/2 the price and still a good winch, using cheaper material to make it cost affective.. A good winch for a cheap price should be around $1000 mark.. Tigerz11 claim there winches are between 800-1000 bucks but they sell them for half that... Its all Rubbish tigerz winches arent even worth 1/2 what they sell them for...
It really pays to research... Runva, Kingone winches are fantastic for the Price..
Jay
i remember a thread from 18months ago or so where a guy bought an unbelievebly cheap no name winch direct from china. it was something like $260 delivered for a 12000 pounder. He kept track of when he used it and as far as i know he got a year or so out of it before the thread disappeared. Not sure how long it lasted in the end and cant remember who it was lol, time for a thread dig
Is it just me, or has their fb page changed format in the last day? I can't find 'posts by other people'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced Offroad
Jay, these are actual serious questions, i don't doubt your experience and knowledge mate, i know you will know more about winches than myself, so thats why i have to ask, but please don't think im being smart, i am actually trying to ask nicely so i can learn what you mean, but sometimes on the web its hard to express tone etc.
Whats the difference in price between a Warn and a Tabor ?, and do you think the better material they use for the Warn brand costs them that same amount extra for them to make one ?
Am i reading it right, you are saying "any" no name brand winch for a $1000 is good ?
If.....that is correct, Tigerz winches are not good because they are cheaper than a $1000 ?, but if they charged over a $1000, they would move into the good cheap winch catagory then ?
@ Lucas you losing it bud, or was that thread just a fig in your imagination, lol
Re branding is everywhere , My GLW worked at Berger paints for Yonks {long time}
K-mart paint was Berger paint in a different can.
Aldi winches from what I read here shape up OK, Tigerz not so good But I'd never buy Tigerz I'd save a bit longer and get the product I really wanted.
Just need to be patient.
@ 4OFF I'll fire off an Email to Ateco on monday , to see if they can put some light on this for you
Thanks 3D, please excuse my ignorance, but who is Ateco ?, do they make Warn stuff or something ?Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
vaguely remember this oneQuote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
@ 4OFF ,They are Warn head office here in Oz.
Actually a friend of mine is a rep there
@ Roothy Vague like Lucas whats going on lol
OT but speaking of Warn winches when I was at the Wandin show and I went to the Warn stand. The woman stood up out of her chair and asked "Hi do you have a Warn winch?". I looked at her and replied " No! It's quite new actually." My mate nearly threw up from laughter.
Sorry just reminded me of the time...
Back on topic. Who give a rats if TigerZ or Poo systems are there or not? Every 4by show is poo nowadays anyway.
This should be the real topic. Tell all the stalls to actually have bargains!!! Not pretend too!!!
Have to agree with you mark its all froth and bubbles at them, throw out some bait and come in spinner its the same as the 4by shops specials lift the tag and its useually cheaper underit
Not quite sure how to take the Red text in the post,just working on my truck at the moment. I have answer for you but going to think about it more while and I will get back to youQuote:
Originally Posted by 04OFF
Cheers Jay
I see the red text as standing out to be polite and not offend......my 2 cents :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced Offroad
Yes exactly , the red text was to make it 100% clear you understood before reading, that i was asking questions to try and understand what you said, not trying to be aggressive or smart or anything !Quote:
Originally Posted by NP99
Obviously i failed (lol) but yeh :o
Here here... dont crap on that there is no margin and all that , flog off some slow moving gear for a bloody good price just for the day!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
I got told in business its best to move a lot of stock for less than it is to sell for high and make much less sales!!!!????
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04OFF
No Worries.
I thought I was in trouble :oops:
Still working on the Patrol, I have my answer and I will get back to you soon.
I hope I don't get people upset and not liking me, I like this Forum
100% agree BA get customers into your shop, the more you move the better, as long as you're not giving it away.
I've found a hardware shop in Caulfield thats still stocked with stuff from 1960, great for me as I need these things for restoration projects.
no good for owner as stock hasn't moved for 40 plus years
And if the big players moved their stuff by lower pricing the Tigerz and ebayers would not survive. There is an element of greed that causes the problem we all now face!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodyaussie
Wouldn't worry about it mate, no one likes me and I still come back everyday!!!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced Offroad