If your big and ugly, we must have the same mother :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
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If your big and ugly, we must have the same mother :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Keep the noise down in your yard, it's after 10pm :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nissannewby
I just check my letter box and my inbox..... My invite must have been stolen mate!!??? WTF!Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
were Tigerz & Roo systems banned for their products - and a prevailing attitude of everyone is UN-Australian if you dont support them & their product?
- or a different reason all together?????
just asking, as NO ONE has specified WHY they are Banned
methinks tis just cheap advertizing
cheers
Both Roo and Tigerz could also be banned if there is another rival media/magazine partner involved (ACP, 4wd TV) who has paid for exclusive rights to the event.
That would be the commercial reality as a result of the respective partnerships with EMG.
Copying other manufacturers products probably wouldn't help the organisers look the other way either.....
Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....
Go to bed already :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Great Southern Camping
It's still not clear if they were banned or refused vendor/display entryQuote:
Originally Posted by Bigcol
At the end of the day people don't care where its made or who's selling it they just want to save a dollar they don't have in the first place! Every one in business knows the big boys don't play fair and they don't like to be undercut, i know blokes from the spare parts industry to tow truck drivers at different levels of the spectrum that have been stung, 1 towy i know thats pretty much in control of a part of melbourne chucks a darky that hard if a car gets picked up in his area by another mob will have their license revoked. The guys in spare parts have lost their suppliers coz of the likes of Bursons, Repco etc where being under cut that hard their trade price was 3 times as much as the retail of the spare parts store, hell i even lost a job for $10 even tho my competitor doesn't do 50% of what we do!!
What i'm getting at is people want to pay less for cheap inferior items even if the brand name will last 3 times as much, and that hurts the big boys !! As far as these guys getting banned, obviously more then one vender at the show complained about them so instead of competing they got rid of the competition ( business is ruthless ) and the thorn in the side is gone!!
Tigerz stuff from what i can understand 1 in 5 works and pretty good too, so that 1 will refer another 5 or 10 and the process begins again...
The consumer sometimes doesn't understand what's involved in a quality job, just the end $ or the $ in a quote. A good example is timber fencing. Quotes vary from quality to sub standard. I can use poor timber, dig a hole 200mm, use a 1/3 bag post filler and give the consumer a better quote than quality timber 600mm hole and full bag of post filler. Not knowing what quality is, they will generally go for the cheap quote. I lose out too many times, I'm out of business and the shonky's remain and everyone complains about poor quality and fondly remembers the good old days!
Allan at piranha off road has tested these winches and he has built him self a winch dino to so he can really test the winches out. I was there when he did one of the test with the tigers11 and it got that hot that it melted the winch rope. At the end of the day winch are not winches and you need to talk to the professionals to make shore you get the right one for your needsQuote:
Originally Posted by gaddy
That's what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisshead
I used to have a long wheel base Suzuki sierra and I spent money twice or three time by buying cheep or not paying the money to get professionals to do things that where out of my league now with my patrol I only want to spend the money once
Helps when you have a father who is warranties manager at one of these big brands and that father is good mates with some that owns another and that owner is the father of one of ur best matesQuote:
Originally Posted by NP99
A work mate is a Australasian and he calls me a round eye beep and a white beep and a fat beep am I supposed to be offended?Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Southern Camping
I tell ya why though, those beeps at EMG who's king size swag shat bits and pieces off it when I set it up at home to wet/season the canvas/stitching can go fork emselves that's offensive......w@nkers they are. Wouldn't step across the road and pi55 on em if they were on fire!
Sent from my iPhone using My thumbs
Two kind of related points to the original thread:
1. OL in Ballarat sent out an email flyer for Warn winches to me and a bunch of others (like heaps of others). Technically someone who sent it had no clue or at the very least made a boo boo and copied all our email address in the "To" field. So, now they were public to everyone. Ok, probably genuine mistake, annoying, but this happens. Next thing you know Tigerz send an email to the same list of email addresses for their stuff. This says it all to me about who Tigerz are. They will drop below all sensible standards, so if they cop crap now I will sit back, watch and enjoy. The quality of their stuff is generally aligned with their pricing (from all observations at a distance).
2. The flip side is, living here in Saudi how come I can buy ARB or Ironman products for 50-60% of the price in Australia? How does that work? The Aussie $ is really high, so buying in another currency should make it more expensive or difficult I would have thought? If it is manufactured or shipped from Aus as well, then it just doesn't make sense. Why so much cheaper here? I'm just guessing, but it seems the Brand names are making good margins in Aus? I definitely like to buy a quality product, but where is the balance in it all? How do we know if they are genuinely struggling to still make a go of manufacturing in Aus or just ripping people off?
Just a couple of thoughts.
A mate wanted pedders (I think from memory coulda been monroe actually) point is the factory with an outlet was 10 min drive from him but was cheaper buying from a jeep accessories joint in the states WTF!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cgm
Sent from my iPhone using My thumbs
CGM - very true in what you say, a lot of identical gear can be purchased OS at a fraction of the cost of purchasing it here, ARB as an example. A lot of it comes down to businesses with rediculous mark up (design costs etc have been paid 100 fold on the items sold) and the Grubbermints taxes etc make a lot of the costs sky-high in which they continue to waste
Who's on third? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutta28
I'm the same in my trade.....plumbing. I have to sell my product a lot harder to get the job. Its sucks when you have pride in your work and only use Australian made products.
As for the banned, Im glade the show has done this if its true. The only persons that have claimed this so far in the 4wdaction.
I think the banned is more toward tigerz11 as they have burnt a lot of people and other 4x4 camponies and roo had no choices.
I've read else where that the big 4x4 companies were going to boycott the show, if ARB recoded sales at the brisabne show were anything to go buy I don't think they would care.
The big players should not be concerned about Tigerz. If the Tigerz product is crap, consumers will soon put them out of business. Every forum out there bags Tigerz........ What do the big players fear?
Australia gets ripped off really bad. I've just bought a motor bike and went to buy gear to ride helmet was 200 armour 200 boots 300 gloves 60 jersey and pants combo 80 all we known name brands I went on line and saw the prices on the AMA website (aussie distributed ) was cheaper then a mate gave me a US website he orders from (btosprots) I can get the same stuff for 150 150 200 30 and 50 respectively in US dollars plus 20 shipping and they asked what bike I ride and gave free stickers spark plug and air filters. Why buy elsewhere cheaper prices and free stuff hard to beat.
I did the same with my bike gear......way over priced in OZQuote:
Originally Posted by macca86
Like a lot of people here, I like to buy local as much as I can but still end up with a house full of imported stuff. Where I live there are next to none small businesses manufacturing anything. So decision which product to buy is not usually based on price but availability. Bigger brands (whether they are dodgy or not) simply have a further reach to places like this. It's not a case of driving past a local manufacturer to a super cheap importer just to get a few bucks off.
One thing I don't like is when we feel like we should be loyal to an aussie company but the product is simply imported and marked up anyway.
Example 1: got a pertronix2 from a Melbourne company for my mate. They sent the wrong one and took two weeks to rectify the problem. So for my own pertronix2 I bought from a US company that was $70 cheaper after postage. It turned out to be faulty and had to be replaced but the point is: I got no better service from the aussie lot, I paid more for the product that they had just imported and marked up themselves.
Example 2: Makita drill kit. The average price of the same kit is around $300 more at a local shop than I got mine off the net from USA. I know the guys at the shop and the only come back was "if it breaks you have warranty if you buy from us". Well the warranty from them is 12 months, so basically it's an extra $300 for 12 month warranty?. I've had the drill for around three years.
On the other hand, I buy local produce (because Tassie food is the best:-) ) and I try to support the local small guys in town. I never buy the Coles/woolworths branded stuff. I think what they've done to their supermarkets by slowly creeping in these products is far worse than what is happening in the 4wd industry. But as said above, there seems to be a bit of hypocrisy.
FanTapstic!
When and where is the show anyway?
I am made up of the following parts.. Black Irish / Gypsy / Tattoo's and Grumpiness.. and this was sent from my phone using Tapatalk!
The Shows are starting to roll around , with Melb in early sept, so who's first Brissy,??
Got to be more in it as heaps of stalls selling crap at 4x4 shows.
Years ago Roothy was a well thought off writer of magazine articles, mainly in motorcycle mags I think, but times have changed & it seems he found his 'home' in 4wd mags, where it appears a bit of empire building has gone on, for which he is the front man, if not a major owner. There certainly seems to have been a process of 'selling out' since the days of the old Roothy I knew & loved.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04OFF
Cuppa
I want to comment but I don't want to turn another thread into a roothy bashing thread! LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuppa
FanTapstic!
And whilst not wanting to inflame a smouldering fire .......... Goodonya Drewboy, it's not easy to speak out against what the majority accept, & to do so again when what you said is laughed off........but mate you were right.
Cuppa
As an industry insider that has had a lot to do with this debate, I can assure you the issues are not entirely with the 3rd party companies but with the specific media group and there 'investment' in these companies. The terms "conflict of interest" always pop into my head, but sadly that is the nice way of putting it!!!
Is he that Roothy....?? cheeses I never realised!!!!!..... splitter!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuppa
Been reading this thread for a while now,it seems to me that everybody is bagging all these brand names that have hit the market with cheaper prices and quality than most,they flog thier products pretty hard show you how good they are in the field,right
so now if you read most of the posts on the forum john says i want this paul says where can i get this,every body gives there opinion on what to get,but it comes down to one thing every time------------ill have to get that one its all i can afford,ive done it myself on accasion this is what roo,s and tiger,s and roothy play on this is why there market has grown so strong so fast over the last 12months so my friends if want the best dont be in a rush to beat everybody to have the newest gear save for it get what you want and only do it once not twice
I've mentioned this to a few people now and have said " they don't give shit as long as its cheap". So Roofys right, market is dominated by this attitude.
We all want the best and most can't afford it.
We all want "one of everything" instead of a few less things but of better quality. Its like when you see a family on Today Tonight complaining about an interest rate rise but in the background you can see it looks like a harvey norman catalogue with top end appliances, 50" tv, stainless kitchen, and everything brand newQuote:
Originally Posted by MEGOMONSTER
what's wrong with that *L* sorta like dole bludger's having a whine that they don't get paid enough on the dole, yet can afford 2 smoke, drink and gambleQuote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
And don't blame the big boyz for overpriced goods or the Sweatshop oversees making stuff on the cheap or ourselves for buying it.
If anyone wants to start finger pointing, start with the Government.
Its been posted on 4wdaction that roo's ban was influenced by the bigger 4x4 companies.
I still don't see how it is economically viable to buy a cheap product 2-3 times in the same period as one of better quality product. :confused:
Anyway by the comments here it looks like that's it what people opt out to do and when they realise the product is crap they stop buying it and start buying a different brand name. And as we see in a lot of cases probably from the same company. LOL vicious cycle if you ask me.
Yeah Roofy's right, but it's something that takes many of us years of experience to understand no matter how much we're told. Buy the best you can afford, & if you can't afford it go without, & save up until you can. Buying cheap is often a false economy but the rare & occasional bargain is enough to blind us with optimism that our next buy will be a bargain too. Just like putting money into the slots. It's all very well buying a cheapie to get by on that one off job provided the job isn't critical & using the cheapie doesn't put you at risk. But buying the cheapie because it's all you can afford knowing that you could be depending on it to get home safely, or to manage a potentially dangerous task without injury, or even just risking your large financial investment through the use of a part which if it were to fail could result in expensive damage just makes no sense. Nissan Patrols are not 10 cent purchases & they are not cheap to maintain. Many folk aspire to own one because they are good vehicles, but sometimes I have to wonder at the wisdom of those who buy one when they can't afford to pay for the ongoing costs & hang cheap poorly made gear on them. They'd be better of buying an inexpensive little runaround & saving for what they really want....... But I guess if we can survive the school of hard knocks we're doing alright eh? Even if some folk make it harder on themselves because they want it all now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGOMONSTER
Here endeth the lesson! ;)
Cuppa
I agree with nissangq4.2. It's the damb government that makes these prices so hi. Like someone said earlier he buys the AUSTRALIA MADE products in another country for less than what we can get it here in Australia. All tigers and roo's were trying to do is give the big guys something to think of, I don't personally like the quality of there products but at the end of the day it is the consumers choice to go with the cheaper option, I also don't believe that the bigger companies should be charging what they do here when the same AUSTRALIAN made product is cheaper elsewhere, I do understand that the better quality does cost more to make but don't believe it is as much as they charge, only simply for the fact that its cheaper elsewhere!!!!!!!!!
Well that is my 2 cents.
There's many things you might be able to blame the government for but high prices on 4wd accessories is not one of them. That has everything to do with quality manufacturers maximising their profit margins. Have a look at the ARB share price and return on equity to see how much they need to reduce their prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by krbrooking
Manufacturers like ARB are simply not interested in the lower end if the market and if it were my business, neither would I be if I was making top dollar elsewhere.
I have always lived by the saying: "buy once and buy it right"
Drew..
Tip tip tip......tap tap tap....
I would not be surprised it Tigezr made the same profit from a sale as ARB or whoever make on the same item in their showroom.
Just Tigerz generally is a cheap copy made in a factory with cheap labour and inferior materials.
It is frustrating to see the same product O/S for much less, a $1500 air locker in the US was $900 when I had the Hilux.
This so called banning is very market driven IMHO, the other companies probably banded togeather and said they were withdrawing from the show if the cheap counterfitters were going to be there.
If they had allready done a show with them present they were probably pissed about the questions comparing the product and price, their sales may well of been below what it it costs to rent the space, set up the display, stock it and man it for over a week without a break.
I was told by one of the MSA owners at the Sydney show years ago that ARB spent $35000 on their site at a Melbourne show, that was just the patch of concrete. BS or not I dont know.
Also if the magazine ARB etc had supported for years had a shift in their marketing strategy a bit of bad blood may well be spilt so this is a get square.
I have no idea what the publication is like now, the last issue I bought boasted 296 pages, 60% plus were ads. That was 3 or more years ago.
Think I bought the one with a winch comparo in it, and that was biased. Never again.
If you dont mind getting a cheap price, from basically an internet based company and you are happy with your purchase, half your luck.
As an point of interest I dont buy ARB stuff if I can avoid it as it has been promoted as the best for years even though some of their stuff is rubbish and they wouldn't cover my warrantee claims. Forced me to look harder and found some quality Aussie stuff that cost a bit more but will last me for years. I for one am willing to pay more for a better product.
Been googling bit more on this and found this on 4wd action
4WD Shows are traditionally a place where companies in the 4WD industry can offer great deals and get in front of thousands of 4WDers. 4WD shows allow the general public to see a huge range of 4WD products and are able to compare like with like from various companies before parting with their hard-earned money. While it does cost 4WD companies a significant amount of money and time to have a presence at a 4WD show, the fact is, that if you have a great product and offer great value, 4WD companies can really benefit from 4WD shows. Roo Systems can certainly attest to this.
It doesn’t make sense that Roo Systems would make false claims about not being allowed to attend the Melbourne 4x4 Show. We don’t need to stir the 4WD industry with stories like this - our great prices do enough stirring on their own!
Roo Systems have had a presence at every major 4WD show for the last 3 years and had every intention of attending the 2013 Melbourne 4x4 Show. That was until recently where Paul Morgan (the show organiser) told Glenn Wright and Ben Sexton that Roo Systems could not attend the show. Whilst Paul did not name names, after much probing he did tell Glenn that “influential 4WD industry figures do not want Roo Systems there”.
The show organisers made their decision to ban Roo Systems from attending their show.
As a result, we have made our decision to expose the truth.
They made their bed, now they can lie in it.
Regards,
Christian Rolfe
Marketing Manager
Roo Systems