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Everyone on this Forum is allowed to express there opinion. You have stated that you dont think we should have the rule and that is OK. One of the reasons for the 25 post rule is to encourage Members to join in.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
I dont agree with some of the rules of our Society but I have to obey them.
Dont take any of this personally and just enjoy the fellowship and sharing of knowledge
No one needs to be banned...why?Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
You have been around for a while and have contributed 36 posts . They were not rubbish..they were decent posts so there is no issue.
What this forum is trying to stop is people coming in and grabbing the manual for nothing and pi55ing OFF!.
You have to realize someone has to host this forum and pay for the bandwidth associated with all the down/up loads, so having to contribute a fraction for the manual is not too much to ask....is it???
WTF ............bye byeQuote:
Originally Posted by trollman
Your're are right Nispat. Not too much to ask for. But there has to be a better way.
How many members v how many regular contributors?
Why is this divide so great?
Maybe the link to; or upon request. Would be the best answer.
But I don't agree with calling people scum.
Trying to point out that if someone is in need of the manuals and creating a 25 post rule, and expecting 25 posts of 'value' when the dude may just want to repair his vehicle and get out wheeling.
If so many sign up just for the manuals, how is it that so few contribute, but are still members?
Agree, There is a better way and having these discussions will hopefully resolve in a better and a fairer way for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
As for the divide between regular contributors and members is the same with all forums. People join the forum, grab the information they need and go away. Most forums have some kind of restrictions and some you need to join to even look at the info. So this is pretty uniform between forums and I don't think this divide will be reduced.
As I mentioned before it is definitely in the spirit of this forum to call people names, etc, thats why this forum is much more friendlier than others. You will see by some of the member quotes" I came here to get some info but I'm still here after months".
whats your problem .....nit pickingQuote:
Originally Posted by trollman
just enjoy the forum as we do, it`s a bucket load of fun and it`s not all about our PATROLS
where do you get you figures from ????
im on just about every day, and not a day goes by without a heap of laughs most nothing to do with our NISSANS
and every day people are helping each other from all corners of the world, not just Auzzziestralia
Have to say I agree with you Trollman - read my posts above as testament to that. There has to be a better way and such a seemingly innocuous issue is breeding heaps of issues ... I still like the concept that the manual is freely available however you simply have to email one of the admin/mods for a copy - they take the responsibility for ensuring they make you feel welcome etc and hopefully you'll contribute further - if not, no harm done, no crap posts, and complete invisibility to the forum which stops these types of discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
As per a few others - the value of the intellectual property contained in the document is becoming less and less, but headache involved in managing it is becoming more and more ..
Hope you come back mate - everyone is entitled to opinion, but that said, if everyone just understands each others thoughts on the topic, then that is what differentiates us from other forums and let's just get on with it ...Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
I do appreciate the overall good heartedness of this forum.
and I accept we can all be 'hot heads' at times.
all cool from my side.
I think a lot of the divide irrespective of the bandwidth issues etc (which are real issues and not to be dismissed) is the difference between who wants the manual for real reasons. That is, many of us get involved in the debate not really having a need for the manual as we don't do the work ourselves. I have the manual and have rarely used it, but can definitely see the value it represents to some ... that needs to not be forgotten ... doesn't change the situation regarding spammers I know, but we need to appreciate (like anything) that one mans trash is anothers treasure.
Good on ya mate!! Everyone needs to not mistake passion with anger etc!! Hope you enjoy the joint and look forward to hearing your take on matters and involvement in the chats!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
Tony what have you started
I like to help anyone with a 'Trol and a problem. I don't expect them to join my Club or any of the Forums I am a member of, indeed I don't expect anything in return. I just get a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping someone out.
I have invited people whose first post is about a problem on their vehicle to come around to my house and we have sorted it out. After genuine thanks I have never seen them since (cept on Forums) and refused any payment or gifts and simply asked them to "pass the help on to the next person they meet and we will call it square".
Ownership - In all most every case of manuals and Docs on here the publications are not "ours" and have been obtained from other sources for free. We do not own them legally or morally
Bandwidth - Easy, don't host 3rd party Docs, Post up the title, a brief review of what its about and the link to its source ( I know this isn't applicable to all Docs that are here)
Goodwill - I reckon trollman isn't far off in his appraisal. People who only want the docs will not come back after 25 posts 'cept to get more docs or will just get them elsewhere. The ZD30 Bible and the GQ manual links are available on at least 1/2 dozen other sites and forums for example. FAST is on at least 2 others and turned up here last chronologically.
Bottom line I think is the question are we here to form our own community with its entry requirements and rules or to share knowledge, experience, tips and foster goodwill to anyone who has a Patrol?.
I think the latter and then the former is the more better for it which is why in my replies to a new poster with a problem he gets an answer as well as a suggestion to post up an intro.
Here, here ET!!Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
Agree on most parts and it looks like the best option is not to have the manuals at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
The problem is the people think its their god given right to have the manual just because they join up. People should adhere to the forum rules and regulations irrespective of their thoughts and feelings.
We all try and help this forum community in some way or another, and thats what its all about.
There's lots of forums where you can't even download a picture if you're not a member or not havet sufficient posts, so as I see it this forum is pretty relaxed in the way it regulates the forum .
Way I see it, lot of forums have their rules and people should respect them.
Hiya NissPat... yeah no argument from me about that
I should add... I like the idea of a "request" by PM or whatever for the Docs just to keep a handle on lurkers and mal's but in the end AB's call on how he wants to proceed gets my support no matter what the decision
AB has said that he is going to look at the matter when he comes back from his Easter Break. As there have been quite a number of Posts in this thread he will have plenty of input to enable him to make a decision.
Most of the Posts have quite valid points and hopefully it will be resolved to the satisfaction of most members.
onya Bob x2
yep, agreed and well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
We've heard all different angles on this topic...which is what is needed to make a fair decision.
No pressure AB...over to you...lol
I am only new to this site but after reading this thread it is clear that there are a lot of passionate members.
I would have to agree that it is rude to just join, download the manuals and not contribute in someway.
Another way to stop spamming from people trying to reach the 25 post.
Is to keep the 25 post requirement but have 2 options when signing up.
1. Keep the original sign up as it is now.
2. Add an extra option, where for a small donation you already start with 25 post.
This would allow for the people who just wanted the manual to be able to download it without posting all the crap (I don't think this will breach copyright laws because the donation is not directly for the manual).
The second option may also motivate people to become more involved with the forum after they have the manual.
like your way of thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
Hey, Trollman, most know my feelings on this subject, and I'm sure it's all to do woth the technical side of things to admin, but to members ( this one anyway), it is a little more personal. And yeah, your right, nothing worse than getting half way through job and needing help.. BUT how many ppl are fixing their trolls at 3am ? I think some of the point is that if you are stuck on a job, there is someone here who'd help out, for nothing to someone they dont know. Just common curtesy and manners is all it's about. Again this is one opinion of one person who sees alot of the grabbers in the dark of night.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
Another good point which is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
As said before these manuals are readily available on the net so a donation to this forum just to get the manual is probably not the way to go. Indirectly you're asking for money for the manual.
Motivating people to hang around is very hard as once they get what they want they leave....We all certainly encourage people to hang around and see what this forum is all about besides the manuals.
Most people don't have a problem and its the very few that think its unfair to have to post 25 genuine posts.
Anyway I don't think its the manuals but people wanting something for nothing ...Just my thoughts once again
I hope I don't sound like an old winging prick with a chip on his shoulder..
I just dislike people who want something for nothing ...ex...dole bludgers !!!!!!!!!
EDIT: Sorry, straying off the subject a bit
No I don't think this at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by NissPat
With my post I was just trying to turn negatives into a positive.
I agree with you, it seem some people think we were put on this earth to do everything for them.
onya Kat......Quote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
If you have joined then you can welcome new members just as we have with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulbous
Tim
Ok, I read all the post and spoke to.
But now I find myself summerizing this:
If you want a free manual which would normally cost $60-$80 then be a sweety and contribute 25 friendly posts and hopefully become addicted to this forum.
If they are needing an urgent answer because they are in middle of doing repair, just throw up an Intro and state you need help with.......Help is usually given to those who place Intros.....
Not hard when you see it spelt out like that Aye?
Tim
And if in the intro, or perhaps better, eslewhere, use the heading or whatever it is called to say what you want. So, quick and dirty can't wait for 25 posts might say Wheel Bearing Help GU and G'day, or something like that. Easier to spot the call for help that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finly Owner
I'm a slacker and just look at new posts, or search for info I want.
Nice post Katwoman, I agree with what you wrote as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
Do you think the reason we see different numbers of posts is because people are different. Some get a manual and disappear.
Perhaps we don't want them back, perhaps we do.
Some are probably sitting on the side watching - perhaps a lot?
And then there are the very regular contributors - someone put up an analysis of that a couple of weeks ago I think.
Looking at the Nightshift, I suspect I'd be welcome, but still I'd hesitate to dip my toe into what looks like a very close knit group of people chatting. But I sometimes have a look.
I'm sorry if we dont make ppl feel welcome on N/S. thats certainly not our intention. The more the merrier. Judging by amount of posts to amount of views ( in all threads), there is plenty who just look, and N/S probaly isnt a thread for all, cos we have nothing to contribute to the tech side of the forum. So, any time you're up for a B/S, night shift is the place for you..( Tony just made that thread to stop certain ppl( u no who u are) from hijacking all over the place.) And filling up proper threads with rubbish ( like I'm doing now..) Nobody on this forum, that I've seen look down on anybody for any reason. So, please, dip away. Just jump straight in. Sorry, sleep deprivation makes me dribble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Thanks for the welcome :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
welcome to n/s silver and dont listen to Kat we dont hijack ...............do we roflmfao hahahahahahahaahQuote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
oh bugger dobbed myself in
You'll get yourself a pay cut if she catches you talking like that. HahahahahahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by nowoolies
Tim
how much is nuttin from nuttin .............again did you say lmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Finly Owner
Gee, you've been taking smart pills Aye?
Tim
LOL
is that what they are i thought they were lollies roflmfao hahahahahahaha
no but iv`e had more than my fair share of chocolate today ...............i feel sick hahahahahah
See you in general banter
oklie doklieQuote:
Originally Posted by Finly Owner