Wiring/control for dual alternator setup in patrol

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15th September 2016, 08:10 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBBIZ2

Check out Readywelder.com. I am yet to read how to post photos - bit lazy.

The Uniwelder I have is now just the 200a alternator. the control box went to heaven a long time ago and I was unable to get the support for repairs out of the guys in WA - we are talking circa 1998 . The alternator itself was used /installed as a 200a supply 100% duty factor unit to support the electric winch. In all the time I had it it was never used for winching, so cannot attest to its ability to generate 200a or not. When it did die and was put in for repairs with the autoelec he cast all sorts of doubts about its capacity, showing me a 200a truck alternator and that was a big unit - this is the size of a typical hitachi but about 3" longer due to the diode packs.I seem to recall it was also slow off the mark voltage wise, meaning it had to be spinning at 2000rpm engine speed to get to 13V, below that barely a pulse out of it. The alternator was designed to run at 11,000 - 13000rpm for welding, which it never did either when I had it as I burnt out a couple of vee belts trying to get it to that speed - very small pulley on the alternator and not much driving circumference. The alternator is in the garage somewhere - having a clean up now and might come across it - if i do, and if I can work out the photo attachment process i will put a couple of shots up of it.

If you can do it the way most guys do it these days with a smart phone and post it using the forum app, that would be enough.
Cheers. :)

P.S.
How did you manage to get the rpm anywhere near 10000??!!
Even with a smaller pulley it would be a tough call I reckon, with the fourbies we drive these days.
I'm guessing you were using a different vehicle?
15th September 2016, 08:15 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by johno90

Just a quick note with using a switch to isolate the exciter circuit, depending on the wiring inside the alternator and nearly 70% of alternators once you give it some rpm they can excite them selves leaving the switch you put in useless.

The replacement alternator(the amp upgrade) from a EF Falcon and modified for the RB30, couldn't self excite, if I recall correctly.
I guess I can test it again by disconnecting the exciter wire?!!
15th September 2016, 08:24 PM
PeeBee

Quote:

Originally Posted by dom14

If you can do it the way most guys do it these days with a smart phone and post it using the forum app, that would be enough.
Cheers. :)

P.S.
How did you manage to get the rpm anywhere near 10000??!!
Even with a smaller pulley it would be a tough call I reckon, with the fourbies we drive these days.
I'm guessing you were using a different vehicle?

Pulley on alternator is approx 2" pcd - really small. I had it on a Mercedes Benz 300d GWagen with the 5 cyl diesel engine. I dont recall what I achieved but enough to totally smoke the belts and stink out the house as well - got into trouble for that one.

I will wait for some help regards the app you mention - I not really into the phone stuff.
15th September 2016, 09:12 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeYou8

I will start by saying my welding skills are pretty much nonexistent, I blame this on a career in electronics where sparks are bad & are to avoided.

Career in electronics is "cooler" than welding though. :) You don't need to deal with "heat management" like the welding profession demands. :D

Quote:

I remember reading about using the 2x batteries & seem to recall that the electrode lead was best if quite long & was coiled to give it some inductance. The added resistance & the inductance limits the current & helps maintain the arc.

Yeah, though i would have some trouble finding welding electrodes like that. Instead, I can use a long spiralled jumper lead that connects to the welding electrode. :). I guess, I might had been doing it unwittingly when I tried welding with batteries. :)

Quote:

Also how to remember which way around for the leads, the 2x houses of parliament
SENate: Standard Electrode Negative
REPresentative: Reverse, Electrode Positive.
Graham

Thanx for the mnemonic mate. Now, I know how to remember. :)
15th September 2016, 09:14 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBBIZ2

Pulley on alternator is approx 2" pcd - really small. I had it on a Mercedes Benz 300d GWagen with the 5 cyl diesel engine. I dont recall what I achieved but enough to totally smoke the belts and stink out the house as well - got into trouble for that one.

I will wait for some help regards the app you mention - I not really into the phone stuff.

cool, thanx.
15th September 2016, 10:56 PM
Arfa Brayne

Quote:

Originally Posted by dom14

Have you done that mate?
I'm pretty excited about this possibility, 'cos i tend to carry extra cranking battery or two for this purpose.
Can you please post bit more information about it?
Thanx

This is a very old trick, going back to the early 1970's. There have been a raft of "welding alternators' and even prior to that I believe there were generator units set up for welding. I have personally used 3x different ones, but they were all 24v.
The amperage needs to be higher than a proper welder to help hold the arc, and they spatter a bit more too.
General consensus is not to weld for longer than 20 seconds in every 2 minutes to allow for cooling.
One was a 240 amp unit on an old 4 tonne International truck in the NT (almost as good as a proper welder)
One, on a Case tractor in VIC, and the 3rd was a bush welder cobbled together from 2x 24v alternators and a Briggs 12hp engine

The dedicated alternators have terminals on the back for welding leads and are massive bloody things. The bloke with the Inter would isolate the battery when welding to get a stable current and protect the batteries.

I keep 1.5mm rod in the toolbox (it's a bit hard to get, but not uncommon) which seems to work ok with 12v x 80a, but is much better with 2x batteries in series as 24v. Just use jumper leads for welding leads. Soot/smut up some sunnies with candle smut for welding glasses, or carry a welding mask glass in the toolbox.
15th September 2016, 11:35 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arfa Brayne

This is a very old trick, going back to the early 1970's. There have been a raft of "welding alternators' and even prior to that I believe there were generator units set up for welding. I have personally used 3x different ones, but they were all 24v.
The amperage needs to be higher than a proper welder to help hold the arc, and they spatter a bit more too.
General consensus is not to weld for longer than 20 seconds in every 2 minutes to allow for cooling.
One was a 240 amp unit on an old 4 tonne International truck in the NT (almost as good as a proper welder)
One, on a Case tractor in VIC, and the 3rd was a bush welder cobbled together from 2x 24v alternators and a Briggs 12hp engine

The dedicated alternators have terminals on the back for welding leads and are massive bloody things. The bloke with the Inter would isolate the battery when welding to get a stable current and protect the batteries.

I keep 1.5mm rod in the toolbox (it's a bit hard to get, but not uncommon) which seems to work ok with 12v x 80a, but is much better with 2x batteries in series as 24v. Just use jumper leads for welding leads. Soot/smut up some sunnies with candle smut for welding glasses, or carry a welding mask glass in the toolbox.

Thanx mate.
I have a couple of welding goggles, both auto darkening. One, I bought off fleabay, the other I made using a fleabay bought AD lens glued onto a pair of safety goggles(and can fit onto a full head mask for overhead welding). The both are el cheapo solar powered ones.

Where do you get 1.5mm rods? I've never seen them before. I would love to get hold of them.
Fleabay has a listing of them.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-6mm-Sti...kAAOSwNRdX2dlX

Thanx
20th September 2016, 06:20 PM
PeeBee

5 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dom14

Can you post a picture of your 24V gas/gasless mig welder, please mate?

If I understood correctly, you still have that high amp(200A?) Uniwelder brand alternator, but it can't be used for welding. In other words it doesn't either generate enough voltage or amps to generate a spark?!

Thanx

Photo of 24v gassless mig and also 200a uniwelder alternator and comparison to my other 200a alternator
Attachment 69114 Attachment 69115 Attachment 69116 Attachment 69117 Attachment 69118
20th September 2016, 11:03 PM
dom14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBBIZ2

Photo of 24v gassless mig and also 200a uniwelder alternator and comparison to my other 200a alternator
Attachment 69114 Attachment 69115 Attachment 69116 Attachment 69117 Attachment 69118

Thanx mate.

The 200A alternator is a massive unit, by the looks of it.

Cheers
22nd September 2016, 09:42 PM
Arfa Brayne

The Bosch/Lucas unit with the external rectifyer plate - the stator winding section looks like it is only about 18mm.
A 200amp alternator should be about 30mm thick, the one you have looks around a 40amp unit. Dunno if someone has pulled a swifty on you.
The rotor windings are fairly interchangeable up to a point and don't effect output much, but the size of the stator is where the power comes from.

Sorry, just looking for a photo online of what I'm trying to explain and all the Bosch alternators are either different casings or the stator is a similar width to yours - either I'm wrong or Bosch have changed the method of getting more amps. COmes from being a dinosaur mechanic.

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