Yep - it sort if filters out the crap from the get go - I'd rather have 200 contributing members than 2000 users who you rarely hear from (if at all after they get the manual).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuf 42
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Yep - it sort if filters out the crap from the get go - I'd rather have 200 contributing members than 2000 users who you rarely hear from (if at all after they get the manual).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuf 42
Fair enough making it easy for them to download, but! the way I see it is you give some and get some, a 2 way street you might say. I don't particularly like the fact that some fella just comes on here and either posts sh!t then buggers off with the manual orrrrr just comes on here and downloads the manual ( if AB were to change the rules) because at the end of the day they are wasting the accounts bandwidth for tossers. If your on here getting amongst it I think it is then the privilege having access to the manuals for sharing info, photos etc otherwise we don't get the bandwidth for us people on here who deserve it. I just don't like the idea of getting something for nothing in return.
Thats my rant lol
And like so many others, you're spot on mate!! It's a small problem really, but impacting and important enough to have this level of response and passion from the members who truly appreciate the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by HippoNZ
Your thoughts on the matter as you were explaining last night is the right idea I think mate
zip files can be password protected may be they can download the zip file then have to PM Andy to get the Password to unlock the zipped manual in which time Andy can check there posts to determine they are eligableQuote:
Originally Posted by xtreme patrol
Bloody good idea too.Quote:
Originally Posted by timbar
Andy havent been on for few days, so missed all this ?? some good ideas on stopping manual grabbers and havent read the whole thread yet, but what if you were to take the manuals off the site and just have a sticky telling members if they are after a manual they need to PM any of the mod's, and if they qualify (what ever the requirements are) the mod can then email the file to them??? might be a bit taxing on the mod's though. Not sure how it all works. Not even sure if im thinkin straight right now but any way if there is a way to stop these scum bags, im in. they just ruin what you guys have worked so hard for. Good work to all the mod's, love your work guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
I'm not sure about the reasons of people trying to grab manuals for free. Maybe there should be a small anual fee, paid to ADMIN, which would allow two things, 1. funds to keep the site running and 2. a full finacial membership status which would allow paid memebrs to downlad any manual of their choice.
I know some othere sites have been asked to remove manuals due to copyright infringements, not sure if this would apply here.
Hmmm... paying can be a dodgy thing... I reckon you will get nastygrams from Organisations that have made the documents free to the Public if you start charging but that would need someone to complain to the publishing organisition I spose.Quote:
Originally Posted by molongmick
I think there is one or more WA Police docs around that have a disclaimer saying they are not 'designed' for dissemination to the general public. Doesn't say you can't just says they are not designed for that purpose and the WA Police were handing the older versions out to anyone who asked until stocks run out.
That EMA 4WD Skills document as indeed all there open docs have a copyright saying they are available for "non-commercial individual use"
In a way the manual links are pretty much an online library... just depends how many hoops you want the 'borrower' to jump thru to get the info
I have no real issue either way but I don't think charging a few bucks is the answer
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say, I was not indicating to charge for the documents, but make documents able for 'full members'. It was just a thought.
i think if anyone want`s a copy of a manual
they should ......after 25 post`s put a request in to one of the moderators
not have them available after 25 post`s just for the hell of it
then if they are being part of our community then ok if not .........................bugger off!!!!!
looks like I've missed some more excitement this afternoon. I'm a firm believer of "You don't get something for nothing", that's all I've got to say seein as it looks like it mostly been said already. I enjoy my time on here and would rather not see the site being filled with spam and nonsensical posts (apart from mine that is hahahahahaha) from people to tight to spend 20 bucks on ebay, so I'll be sitting on the fence and say I'm happy with whatever way is chosen to handle it.
Maybe ask them for their LIBRARY CARD once they have posted 25posts. LOL
I don't think I have an answer to this, but I would have been a bit sad to have been banned back in Feb :-)
As I said at the time it was easy to say something relevant (well I thought it was relevant :-) ) and 25 posts went by pretty fast!
That's it exactly, it's not hard and doesn't take that long............. people are just to impatient and want something for nuthin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Ahhh... sorry, Mick... yeah, thats another option and not a bad one either.Quote:
Originally Posted by molongmick
Could also not bother with the Doc's and just have a link to where the Doc's 'home' sites are as well I 'spose and let "others" have to supply the Bandwidth and deal with Hosting issues.
Anyway, the Lord High Imperious One sounds like he is going to have a tinker when the Hols are over ( have a good one AB )
Why parade manuals are avaliable for download ???
When a member posts "X" amount of posts,send them a PM telling "Manuals are avaliable for download"
This will eliminate spammers,or just post whores pushing up their post count , to then bugger off
Think of it as a reward for those who hang around
I have held back from commenting to this thread, but now i shall speak my mind.
I wouldn't say the manuals a paraded, anyone that does a search on gq manuals....will get this site.
All forums on various topics that i have come across require a certain amount of posts before accessing files.
Why have a 25 post count................
1st. Well besides Andy ( AB ) spending countless hours searching, there are a few other members that have spent there time searching for and have uploaded manuals / files for other members 2 have access 2. Yes I am one of them , I don't post my files for everyone 2 download due 2 the sites 25 post policy, I could quite easily post a direct link, and i would if i didn't think the 25 post rule wasn't fair. Making 25 post isn't hard and i'm guessing Andy hopes by the time the new member has posted 25 posts that they stick around and contribute there knowledge 2 the forum in-turn making the site grow.
2nd. As Andy has already posted.... cost / bandwidth issues, this is a free site, besides some of the donations that has happened, and recently some advertising......its money coming out of Andy's pocket 2 provide the members with something they enjoy, Information on Patrols.
- Bandwidth issues for the site could be decreased by hosting the manuals elsewhere, but that would still be at a cost, and yes other members do host manuals on there rapidshare / fileshare etc....accounts. The downside 2 others hosting is, links often become inactive due 2 the member moving on / deleting the file etc.....and this has already happened.
There is a lot more i could add 2 this thread but it would take me a year 2 write up, so i won't.
If a member doesn't want 2 make the effort 2 post 25 posts, its easy don't become a member, do what others do....buy it or search for it elsewhere. Its that easy.
Deep breath say no more
Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works, but what about people like me who don't always have access to the net. I am probably what you would call a manual grabber because I did download it not long after I joined and before 25 posts ( I still haven't got 25 posts). However when I can get access I visit the site to read about what other patrollers get up to without posting a comment. It is the best site I have come across and I like the fact that undesirables are booted off and bad language is not tolerated.
Just my 2 cents worth
can understand that 2 Archie, hence why a new member could get 25 posts within a few minutes if they welcomed every new member, have access 2 the manual and not been frowned upon. Its not so much about grabbing a manual and never returning, its the cr!p they post up 2 get the 25 posts that gets them banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie
As said mate, at least you take the time to tell us and offer comment. These other clowns simply type "that's good", "top tip" etc etc to 25 (usually older) posts and then we all have to read through their dribble to get the banter back on track ... thanks for your input mate though, as it helps with the decision as to how to to about sorting it for the future ..Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie
It's like the smart arse factor on top of abusing the work AB and the mods do running the place, and those who have hunted up the manuals in the first place??Quote:
Originally Posted by toddrhind
So can I grab 3 manuals with 75 posts? LOL!
Seriously though, it annoys me how some people are always on the lookout for some thing for nothing.
I agree with a lot of the suggestions put forward, especially the one where the minimum 25 poster has to PM a Mod for a link to download the Manuals, so they can be checked out to see if they are just posting stuff like BigRig said(Top Tip, That's Good etc).
Why should they benefit from someone elses' hard work for nothing?
Steam released, Bundy kicking in, back to reading other posts.
Been thinking about this problem but don't understand the behind the scenes of a forum but can the following work?
Once someone has signed up they be automatically directed to a welcome site? Not the whole forum until they say Hi and introduce themselves. (stop spam)
Ask on the sign up site what they are looking for. (determine intention) Maybe not have the manuals as a tick option and once they have posted 25-30 posts reward them with a one time use password to the manuals? BUT only if they play by the rules.
Not sure if it would make more work but what I understand now happens is you guys are always on the look out for non genuine forum scum.
May make your work easier but AB's worse?? Not sure..
You certainly could, but you will first need 2 tell us in 25 words.....i mean post as to why you would like the manuals *LMAO*Quote:
Originally Posted by GUtsy ute
OK, been reading the posts for a coupla days and I'll have to fess up to still not getting it... :1087:
The EMA 4WD manual for example is freely available to anyone on planet Earth with a PC and an Internet connection. EMA have no restrictions whatever to access their documents, no "must have x posts", no "must register", no "must contribute", no "we have found a very helpful document but you can either stumble over it yourself with Google or jump thru the hoops and we'll tell you". You just go to the EMA site and there it is. The only proviso is noone can use it for commercial gain
Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no issue with accessibility levels imposed on stuff that has been collated and published by OR is of some level of intellectual property of the Forum/Members but I just cannot see why there is so much feeling for restricting 3rd party documents or info where perhaps a sticky of a "Handy Documents" Link would suffice?
Anyway, one thing is for sure, it is certainly a strangely emotive subject eh... ;)
You know, Evil, I think it's just a case of most here are protective of anything on this forum..
Pure and simple. It is almost like one big happy family. And helping to make the forum grow. As i've said before, there are those that will stick around regardless.
As Biggus Riggus said in another thread, it's a helpful forum in many ways, and I think that is part of it.
We just want to protect our own, while the 'family' grows.
I dont walk into someone's house and take something cos it's free without at least a thank you.
Always good to see the 'other side' of any argument, but I will protect my security team til the end..
( I know why you're the 'evil twin'.. pml)
Totaly agree good postQuote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
like the new avatarQuote:
Originally Posted by katwoman
The main reason for imposing the 25 post rule is to stop hordes of people downloading it. The manuals are big documents and everytime someone downloads a manual it uses up AB's bandwidth allocation. AB already has the forum on the highest bandwidth plan and if that bandwidth is used up the forum will either slow right down or stop, something that none of us want to see happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
Tony
Hence just put up a link to the Authors website and save our Bandwidth for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
As I said I just don't see the point of hosting other Organisations stuff... absolutely agree that we have something pointing at it tho and maybe have a copy stored away in case a Doc is archived or the originating Website goes but thats pretty rare outside of the Docs that originate from Torrents and/or Pirates.
Then "visitors" can surf the links after they register at no heartache to them or us BUT they still have to be productive to use up Bandwidth for stuff that is only available here or at other restricted sites.
It does essentially boil down to Bandwidth thing we are discussing as all of the "knowledge and posts" is viewable by anyone on the 'Net (member or not) so anyone wanting to register has a 100% visibility of the site, members and culuture from dot... which is a darn good thing I reckon.
There are manuals avail from here??
Goes to have a look see
LOL, I was half way down the second page when I realised what a manual grabber was. I though it was some sort of cool mod.
Reason I joined, I am pretty much a newbie in 4x4 having started just over a 18 months ago in a Dodge Durango (horrible car - don't go there).
I recently bought a Patrol and I love it - but I don't understand it. I want to learn more about my car and all aspects of it's operation - pretty sure the manuals won't help there. There's no shortcut to knowledge, you can only gain it by a long process of reading and absorbing information.
So apology in advance, I will probably lurk a lot of your mechanical threads but will rarely post since I don't want to spam you with what is probably incorrect information.
However if I think that I've got valid and good information I will certainly post it. I also feel quite strongly that if I only joined yesterday then I have absolutely no right to welcome anyone to YOUR site.
Sorry to be a windbag
No worries mate join in wherever And whenever ya want mAte there are all sorts of topics on here some good giggles to be had
I second that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
I took me quite sometime to genrate 25 posts.
If a dude is working on his patrol has greasy hands etc, halfway thru a repair job and needs some info.
You will gain a friend with immediate satisfactory help. Not By hindering I.e. 25 posts & calling them scum etc.
You lose a prospective member.
How many members on this forum? How many regular contributors?
This whole notion of 'protecting' the forum is reflecting badly on this community. Creating judgements on people that are seeking (urgent?) information.
Have a look at this from an outsiders perspective. You may not like what you see!
Fair point Trollman.
Unfortunately most do not want to contribute anything and just want the manual for nothing. It's like saying I want diesel to help my car run but I do not want to pay for it.
I think having a 25 post limit before you can download is very fair and people trying to post 25 posts of rubbish just to get it should be banned IMO.
In your case you have been a long time member and a small poster(and nothing wrong with that). You could always PM one of the admins or mods and get the manual. I see nothing wrong with that.
It's not in the spirit of this forum to call anyone scum because they want the manual instantly , we just try not to give them the satisfaction of getting something for nothing.
Each to their own I suppose and the manual is for sale on eBay. No one is stopping anyone going to buy one.
if the requried information is that urgent ........buy it on ebay YOU WILL GET IT QUICKER!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trollman
so far anyone who has grabbed a manual is never heard from again ,
no this is not hindering. if outsider`s dont like the way OUR forum is run dont come here hindering US ,
and NO it dont reflect BADLY on OUR COMMUNITY as we all contribuite very regular, most every day.
and if a dude has greasy hands............ well he shouldnt be on the keyboard.
join in be part of our community have a laugh theres plenty of them
and bucket loads of info, tonnes of that,
with extreamly helpfull people willing to give up their time to help those in need with problems on their vehicle,..... that never stop`s.
and yes i have strong views on our community
Thanks Nispat,
I downloaded the manuals sometime ago.
I just wanted to defend people that could have been valuable contributors, but have been dis-encourage due to the notion of 'exclusivity'.
My main point is 'how many members v how many regular contributors'
I consider that a person requiring the manual 'info' is the person that can relatively easily be engaged and encouraged to further contribute.
a requirement of 25 posts is creating the I'll feeling, filling the forum with useless posts, generating the need to delete said posts and banning someone at a time when their main priority is to fix the patrol. The very reason why someone would attend a forum.
Turn it around - the manual will encourage people here, find away (communicate) to encourage them stay and contribute.
Ok,
Ban me, remove my account.
Enjoy your exclusivity!
I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.