Steering Shake.

Hi Guys

I took the GU in today instead of tomorrow. Well here goes-- My GU has all its original things since factory so nothing has ever been changed. After a long test drive it is the conclusion that I have a few problems with my suspension. I need new shockies,coils etc and adjustable this and that so basically you could say i am having a lift kit put in.
I think thats how it is-- you guys have more of an idea than me. I was shown what is being replaced in the front end and told what it was called and why it was being done but as old age creeps in we forget a few things but you guys will know whats involved in a lift kit and what gets replaced.

Anyway is booked in for October 8th so will see how it goes. Shims will be checked --you will all be glad to hear that one and a few other things but basically we will see what happens with new shocks etc and see what diff some adjustment to the steering makes.

Mrs H.

Yep - new coils and shocks. They are possibly talking an adjustable drag link but if you are going standard or up to 2" (50)mm lift you don't need it. Sometimes if your suspension is worn out, just putting new standard springs and shocks gives a 1" or more lift.
When they are doing it, ask them to check the coil towers for cracks or damage. Get that welded or replaced while they are doing the lift.

After reading all the threads on how much trouble each nissan owner is having and having been there done that.
Owning 3 different patrol over the yrs mk,mq & gu and each had same problem.
NEW Bearings,tyres& many balances,wheels/rims, shocks, tie rods, panhard bushes, nipped up steering box, & 1 deg caster correction per 1" of lift.

Those ebay and other assorted re-branded "hollowed out" style rubber caster bushes are only any good for flex off Rd,
Not on Rd, on Rd to much flex and contributes to wobble.

Non of the above suggested fixed it, right!.
Well if your reading this, then chances are no, it didn't.
Take a look at the wheel alignment readings.
compare your current caster angle Against the std oem angles on spreed sheet from alignment machine.
bet your still out and need more caster adjustment.

Try 1.5 deg caster correction per 1"lift/.
1.5 deg worked every time "for me" after all the usual fixes failed to solve the #@@## wobble.

Removing a kingpin shim only tightens up the spot in the bearings that's worn,
and Over tightens the rest of bearing contact area.
m2cw.

Hope this helps those pulling their hair out.
Oh and badly worn out of round tires & or out of found rims will tend to wobble still, even after my repair has solved the problem.
been there also

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Originally Posted by 4bye4

Yep - new coils and shocks. They are possibly talking an adjustable drag link but if you are going standard or up to 2" (50)mm lift you don't need it. Sometimes if your suspension is worn out, just putting new standard springs and shocks gives a 1" or more lift.
When they are doing it, ask them to check the coil towers for cracks or damage. Get that welded or replaced while they are doing the lift.

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Hi
Yep only going a 2" lift. It was in the back of my mind that i should have shockies replaced anyway as like I said my GU is all original.Drag link is being fitted and I think it was the casters being adjusted or corrected off centre. ???Whatever i think it angles my diff backwards -- you get the idea. Anyway I am sure Mike will do and check everything as he told me he would. The person i am trusting with my "truck" has been highly recommended over and over and have also been told that if he can't fix it then I'm in deep S****t. I trust that after everything is done, replaced, adjusted that i have a nice smooth ride once again.
Its an expensive exercise-- bit like owning a boat. A thousand here and there but the joy of having it. I wouldn't swap my GU or GQ but i would sell the boat.

Will give a final update once its all been done.

Mrs H. (Ronnie)

Good luck Rhonda hope it all works out, do you know what kit your getting Tough Dog, Old man Emu??? Lift kits are usually always the first mod

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Originally Posted by peterbr1

Good luck Rhonda hope it all works out, do you know what kit your getting Tough Dog, Old man Emu??? Lift kits are usually always the first mod

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Hi
Not sure- will find out- not into hard core off road mud racing or anything like that so I am sure Mike will put on what is most suited to my vehicle. These guys are renowned for top quality workmanship so i have faith they will use top quality parts.

Will let you know.

Ronnie

Ok cheers, you'll be amazed with the handling once its done.

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Originally Posted by peterbr1

Ok cheers, you'll be amazed with the handling once its done.

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I will be so disappointed if the work i am having done doesn't fix my problem. Reckon i will cry as its driving me nuts. Ok to drive around town but the highway is murder. Well the Truck is waiting patiently at the mechanics for work to commence tomorrow morning. Guess I will find out tomorrow Arvo what the verdict is.
Fingers crossed.

Mrs H

Good luck hope it works for you oh also I did what Robo stated the caster correction didn't work I can prove it with pics if you like, just check if they are the big bore shocks 40odd mm I think; they just last longer and make the car handle better. Oh also mention to your mechanic to not to forget to raise the proportioning valve spring on the rear diff 2" for a 2" lift otherwise the front brakes will work much harder than the rear and will eventually warp.

Hi

Well I didn't go for a lift kit-main reason is i want my truck to remain original,stock standard. new shocks, springs, tie rod end boot, centralised steering box, all suspension bushes checked, Tyres balanced again etc, king pin bearings,wheel bearings and everything else checked and all is good---

BUT I still get up to around 98 k's and it goes again. I am ready to cry. So disappointed i still have this problem. The steering wheel shakes from side to side --its like holding onto a vibrator and then the whole cab seems to shake also. So new suspension, new steering damper, new tyres, wheel alignment and everything else I've mentioned and its still there.
What to do next is beyond me. The only thing i can think of is it is in the steering itself. Might be something worn out that is causing it to vibrate like it does. Funny thing is it is not constant - rather intermittent and if i speed up then slow down it seems to help it. Well so much for the suspension idea--looks like its back to the drawing board and round 2 coming up.

Mrs H

What is the castor set at?

I sent you a PM

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Originally Posted by Mrs Ronnieh

Hi

Well I didn't go for a lift kit-main reason is i want my truck to remain original,stock standard. new shocks, springs, tie rod end boot, centralised steering box, all suspension bushes checked, Tyres balanced again etc, king pin bearings,wheel bearings and everything else checked and all is good---

BUT I still get up to around 98 k's and it goes again. I am ready to cry. So disappointed i still have this problem. The steering wheel shakes from side to side --its like holding onto a vibrator and then the whole cab seems to shake also. So new suspension, new steering damper, new tyres, wheel alignment and everything else I've mentioned and its still there.
What to do next is beyond me. The only thing i can think of is it is in the steering itself. Might be something worn out that is causing it to vibrate like it does. Funny thing is it is not constant - rather intermittent and if i speed up then slow down it seems to help it. Well so much for the suspension idea--looks like its back to the drawing board and round 2 coming up.

Mrs H

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Everything you describe was the symptoms of my car - my steering shake came on suddenly and was severe.
You mention the king pin bearings.
Did they just check them?
How did they check them - just a manual inspection looking in the plates from above and below?, Or just wiggled the wheel and said it was ok?
Did they replace them?
If they just checked them and then reassembled did they put the original shims back in or leave them out?

In my case, after i checked everything head to toe, including balancing, alignment and bushes, i then took the shims off the top and bottom of the kingpin plates, and the vibration was gone.
It tightened up the play.

If the original shims are still there, and they left the original kingpin bearings in place, i would remove the shims and then test.
Nothing hurt by doing this, you can always put them back.

If you don't know what im referring too have a look at this video on youtube and watch it until they get to the shims part.
In the video the refer to it as the swivel hub bearing shims
view from 2.10 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BtdFmyFv9s

This fixed solved my issue and it has not returned.

this is another good video on the same subject and explains it well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPLgglRbDF0

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Originally Posted by jack180

this is another good video on the same subject and explains it well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPLgglRbDF0

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Hi
yes i have seen these videos and all is good with the truck at present.
Thanks for the info.

Mrs H

Hi Mrs H just wondering how things are progressing

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Originally Posted by peterbr1

Hi Mrs H just wondering how things are progressing

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Hi
I haven't done anymore to the truck this week. Actually have been waiting all week for mick (Mechanic) to call me back after I let them know as soon as I got home there was no improvement to things after a new suspension etc but no contact from him. Seems its take my money and run there. Not happy at all with the customer Service .

This is what my gut is telling me--new king pin bearings and shims. Rather them replaced than taken out. I know it won't hurt anything to remove them but would feel better having them there. Everything on my Truck is original from new so its understandable that things wear so I feel no harm in having them replaced along with the wheel bearings while I 'm going. At least I know myself then they are in good nick.
This is what I am getting done next so will let you know what the verdict is.

Mrs H (Ronnie)

That's up to you me personally I wouldn't it wont need it just remove the shims, oh and have you noticed over 1700 hits to this thread wow lots of views

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Originally Posted by Mrs Ronnieh

Hi
I haven't done anymore to the truck this week. Actually have been waiting all week for mick (Mechanic) to call me back after I let them know as soon as I got home there was no improvement to things after a new suspension etc but no contact from him. Seems its take my money and run there. Not happy at all with the customer Service .

This is what my gut is telling me--new king pin bearings and shims. Rather them replaced than taken out. I know it won't hurt anything to remove them but would feel better having them there. Everything on my Truck is original from new so its understandable that things wear so I feel no harm in having them replaced along with the wheel bearings while I 'm going. At least I know myself then they are in good nick.
This is what I am getting done next so will let you know what the verdict is.

Mrs H (Ronnie)

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Lots of information on this on here. Unfortunately it could be may things..
A few little tricks to try.
Tighten wheel bearings and.go for a spin..
if no good try greasing each rod one by one and take it for a spin after each one.
The grease will short term pack any slop..
If it still wobbles try removing the shims on king pin bearings and go for a spin.
If it's still there replace the shims, and unfortunately that's the end of the free checks.
If you do all that and it still shakes I'd. Start with bushes.. Panhard rod bush is the most likely culprit.
And what makes it a right pita is if rear bushes are worn it can affect the wobbles to..

After one year of trying lots of things mine is now cured. It's a 2006 with around 185,000 when this started.
At 80 kph the shake was violent, felt like a seventies motorcycle having a tank slapper.

First was a new Panhard Rod. Then many wheel balances including on the car. Wheel alignment. Two new tyres on the front. Goodyear Wranglers, standard size. Only bought these because the spare was new one.

Then New Swivel Hub and wheel bearings. It still wobbled.

Every single bush in the front end replaced not at the same time and was trial and nothing had cured it. By this stage over $2,000 spent and it still wobbled.

Took the new front tyres off had that done maybe 10,000 km and they had worn so badly that he right hand one would not stand up. When rolled on the floor the tyres went in circles in opposing direction. So in effect they were fighting each other, probably caused by the worn parts.

Put the rear Bridgestone tyres on the front and it drives perfectly. A wheel aligner with a good reputation and Patrol owner claims its the tyres. He has found stiff side wall tyres work best.

So that was my journey and now very happy! If there are problems maybe try other tyres or check if they run across the work shop floor in a straight line.

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Originally Posted by biggqwesty

Lots of information on this on here. Unfortunately it could be may things..
A few little tricks to try.
Tighten wheel bearings and.go for a spin..
if no good try greasing each rod one by one and take it for a spin after each one.
The grease will short term pack any slop..
If it still wobbles try removing the shims on king pin bearings and go for a spin.
If it's still there replace the shims, and unfortunately that's the end of the free checks.
If you do all that and it still shakes I'd. Start with bushes.. Panhard rod bush is the most likely culprit.
And what makes it a right pita is if rear bushes are worn it can affect the wobbles to..

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Hi
there has been plenty of good info on here. I will run down what has been done so far:

New Panhard Rod bushes. New tyres all round, fitted and balanced. New Steering Damper, New shock Absorbers, new spring coils all round. Steering adjustment. All tie rods, steering arms--anything that is underneath has been thoroughly removed and or checked. Wheel bearings are almost new, King pins supposedly fine but this is my next job-- for my own piece of mind they are being replaced. also shims.

If that doesn't work then a match might be cheaper.

Mrs H

Pull a shim from the king pin side, top and bottom, one each side and re tighten. See if that fixes the issue..
If it does then bearings need doing but just remeber where the shims go for when you re install..

You could also try tightening the steering box.
On the top you'll see a nut and thread. Crack the nut and tighten the thread a little then re tighten the nut.
Don't wind in to much or it will bind up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by biggqwesty

Pull a shim from the king pin sides either top or bottom, one each side and re tighten. See if that fixes the issue..
If it does then bearings need doing but just remeber where the shims go for when you re install..

You could also try tightening the steering box.
On the top you'll see a nut and thread. Crack the nut and tighten the thread a little then re tighten the nut.
Don't wind in to much or it will bind up

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When taking shims out, aren't you supposed to remove from top and bottom?

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Originally Posted by Clunk

When taking shims out, aren't you supposed to remove from top and bottom?

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Um. Not sure. Now thinking about it it's probably best to keep everything centeral. .

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Originally Posted by Clunk

When taking shims out, aren't you supposed to remove from top and bottom?

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Think you are meant to take both out.

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Originally Posted by Mrs Ronnieh

Think you are meant to take both out.

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must take top and bottom out for even pressure.
10,000k since i took mine out, and not a hint of the return of the death wobbles....

Hi Mrs H just wondering if you had a chance to take those shims yet

Quick warning if you tighten the screw on the steering box make sure the wheels are straight ahead or you will find it jams when returning to straight ahead
It always must have a wisker of free play
Regards
Joe

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Originally Posted by jack180

must take top and bottom out for even pressure.
10,000k since i took mine out, and not a hint of the return of the death wobbles....

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So my GU Patrol is doing the same wobble thing between 80-90kph. I've spent some time trying to figure out if it's the exact speed that causes it or not by driving at a constant speed along a flat road. It appears that it will start at maybe 82kph, but then remain for as long as you're ±8kph. Then it will start up again anywhere in that range. It's weird. If it always started at (say) 82kph then that might be significant, but it seems more to be about setting up the conditions once then always suffering the problem. Maybe I'm just over-analysing the issue.

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Anyway, so it's going to a wheel balance on Saturday. As one mechanic said, "start cheap and work up from there." I like the cut of his jib.

I then found the videos that Jack180 linked to, and doing some reading, there are people with dire warnings about taking out the king pin shims. Now I don't want to cause expensive problems to happen in my car so I'm wary (though keen because free is such a great price). Has anyone removed the shims and actually had problems? Or are the warnings just precautionary "worst case" scenarios? 10,000k is good, but how are things after 50-100k or more?

Cheers
Luke

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Originally Posted by PullsyJr

So my GU Patrol is doing the same wobble thing between 80-90kph. I've spent some time trying to figure out if it's the exact speed that causes it or not by driving at a constant speed along a flat road. It appears that it will start at maybe 82kph, but then remain for as long as you're ±8kph. Then it will start up again anywhere in that range. It's weird. If it always started at (say) 82kph then that might be significant, but it seems more to be about setting up the conditions once then always suffering the problem. Maybe I'm just over-analysing the issue.

--

Anyway, so it's going to a wheel balance on Saturday. As one mechanic said, "start cheap and work up from there." I like the cut of his jib.

I then found the videos that Jack180 linked to, and doing some reading, there are people with dire warnings about taking out the king pin shims. Now I don't want to cause expensive problems to happen in my car so I'm wary (though keen because free is such a great price). Has anyone removed the shims and actually had problems? Or are the warnings just precautionary "worst case" scenarios? 10,000k is good, but how are things after 50-100k or more?

Cheers
Luke

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The problems people say,,,, there are none, the only people mostly, who say there are problems with removing the shims are 4x4 mechanics, they know its a design fault with Nissans and Jeeps and are keen to make an easy buck, the wobble is caused from the front tail shaft, the long and short axles and the swivel hubs, the shims are a preloader more shims loose steering less shims tight steering, Nissan make it loose deliberately for comfort, I've been doing this mod for years and every major service (before a long trip) I check the king pin bearings and never once found any problems (Just out of curiosity what are the dire warnings) Still though im no expert so its up to you. The creator of this post 'who sounds like such a lovely person' spent a fortune trying to get rid of the "dreaded GU wobbles" her car is stock standard and guess what, it still wobbles and the mechanic is never to be heard from again. Something to be learnt perhaps. My 4 GUs I've owned in the past and now have all wobbled, so 45min in the garage, all fixed.
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That's cool. I'm getting a lot of comments like yours (and it is definitely appreciated). It's the flip side of wailing doom that worries me. Though I suspect you may be right - those professing the terrible nature of no shims are the ones who might be losing money over it.

And to be honest, unless someone admits that their [insert part here] broke because the shims were removed, my mind is pretty made up. I'm just cautious enough to give some benefit of the doubt to the nay-sayers.

Thanks for the comments. It's good to see you've had no issues at all with it.

No probs mate, id even pull them out before the balance, just to sus it out.

Welllll ............... reading through all this, I had the same problem with mine some time ago. I always buy my tyres from the same tyre outlet and then have them rotated by my usual mechanic when I get a service. One time when he rotated them he also balanced them and after that I got the dreaded wobbles. I took the car back to the mechanic and he said the balance must be out and I stood there watching him for over an hour as he tried to balance the front wheels. His machine came up with all sorts of odd readings. He finally finished but when I took the car out on the highway the wobbles were back. I took the Patrol to my tyre place and they balanced the tyres in no time and the wobbles went away. I asked the tyre guy (a long time friend of mine) why this happened. He said a lot of mechanics and even some tyre places have balance machines that are fine for normal passenger tyres but are useless on wider and heavier 4WD and truck tyres. He told me his machine cost him many thousands of dollars and it is suitable for the larger 4WD and truck tyres.

Not saying your problem is the same - but I have mentioned this to other Patrol owners that I know and they have gone to a tyre dealer that specialises in truck and 4WD tyres and their problem has gone away as well. It's a cheap thing to try before you spend lots more money.

Pulling the shims out just adds preload on the bearing, it's a bandaid fix, just adding resistance to the steering system.

The first thing that should be checked is the castor. It needs to be between 2.5-3 degrees. That is a very small working tolerance.

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

Pulling the shims out just adds preload on the bearing, it's a bandaid fix, just adding resistance to the steering system.

The first thing that should be checked is the castor. It needs to be between 2.5-3 degrees. That is a very small working tolerance.

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Yep done the castor correction when the car was lifted, still wobbled, its not a Band-Aid fix its the only fix nothings else works read this post in its entirety Mrs h had done this she practically had a front end rebuilt inc. new standard springs its a design fault from Nissan go on YouTube and do a search your trying to tell me all these cars need their castor corrected and with over 2000 hits to this post there is some reason why they are reading it, how many of these people have the wobbles 100 200 even, with castor issues I don't think so

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Originally Posted by peterbr1

Yep done the castor correction when the car was lifted, still wobbled, its not a Band-Aid fix its the only fix nothings else works read this post in its entirety Mrs h had done this she practically had a front end rebuilt inc. new standard springs its a design fault from Nissan go on YouTube and do a search your trying to tell me all these cars need their castor corrected and with over 2000 hits to this post there is some reason why they are reading it, how many of these people have the wobbles 100 200 even, with castor issues I don't think so

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Not me, only panhard new bushes required but then again I have a mighty GQ not a GUrly GU [emoji8]

I'll get the tyre folks to check the camber while the car is in the shop. The bushes all seem ok, but I will also go over them again.

Thanks for the comments so far, and apologies for taking over the thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by peterbr1

Yep done the castor correction when the car was lifted, still wobbled, its not a Band-Aid fix its the only fix nothings else works read this post in its entirety Mrs h had done this she practically had a front end rebuilt inc. new standard springs its a design fault from Nissan go on YouTube and do a search your trying to tell me all these cars need their castor corrected and with over 2000 hits to this post there is some reason why they are reading it, how many of these people have the wobbles 100 200 even, with castor issues I don't think so

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Re read my post.... I said THE FIRST THING THAT SHOULD BE CHECKED IS CASTOR.

I have read this thread. I asked what the castor was set at... no reply, so it to me it hasnt been checked and documented

Again in my other post I said that there very small working tolerance.

How do you know it was correct in the first place? No use throwing castor correction in if you dont know what it was. How can it be corrected of you dont know what to correct? Do you think that the radius arm mounts both chassis and axle are 100% correct to exacting tolerances every time on the 100's of thousands of patrols ever built on a large scale production line? No way... patrols aren't that well built.

The fact is, that the wobbles are a direct byproduct of castor angle/king pinin inclination, a reduction in castor angle reduces the tyres contact patch with the ground, therefor reducing the stability of the steering system.

Thats why I stand by my "bandaid fix" comment as removing shims does not change the incination of the king pin.

While we are here. I too have the wobbles, I bought them home last week end from my trip to landcruiser park. It happens under breaking. Easy fix.
I have elongated the front bolt hole on the radius arm axle mount, every time I break, the front diff rotates forward, reducing my castor angle, thus reducing the size of tyre's contact patch with the ground and stability in my steering....Bam......wobbles. When i get some lathe time I'll turn some washers from a chunk of 4140 I have, set the castor close to 3 degrees and drive out without the wobbles. Its not the first time I have had the wobbles and it wont be the last

I'm not interested in watching a video on youtube on bandaid fixes. I would rather learn about suspension and steering engineering so I have an understanding as to why. But each to their own I guess

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Originally Posted by Clunk

Not me, only panhard new bushes required but then again I have a mighty GQ not a GUrly GU [emoji8]

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LoL.........

[QUOTE=Ben-e-boy;642000]Re read my post.... I said THE FIRST THING THAT SHOULD BE CHECKED IS CASTOR.

I have read this thread. I asked what the castor was set at... no reply, so it to me it hasnt been checked and documented

Again in my other post I said that there very small working tolerance.

How do you know it was correct in the first place? No use throwing castor correction in if you dont know what it was. How can it be corrected of you dont know what to correct? Do you think that the radius arm mounts both chassis and axle are 100% correct to exacting tolerances every time on the 100's of thousands of patrols ever built on a large scale production line? No way... patrols aren't that well built.

The fact is, that the wobbles are a direct byproduct of castor angle/king pinin inclination, a reduction in castor angle reduces the tyres contact patch with the ground, therefor reducing the stability of the steering system.

Thats why I stand by my "bandaid fix" comment as removing shims does not change the incination of the king pin.

While we are here. I too have the wobbles, I bought them home last week end from my trip to landcruiser park. It happens under breaking. Easy fix.
I have elongated the front bolt hole on the radius arm axle mount, every time I break, the front diff rotates forward, reducing my castor angle, thus reducing the size of tyre's contact patch with the ground and stability in my steering....Bam......wobbles. When i get some lathe time I'll turn some washers from a chunk of 4140 I have, set the castor close to 3 degrees and drive out without the wobbles. Its not the first time I have had the wobbles and it wont be the last

I'm not interested in watching a video on youtube on bandaid fixes. I would rather learn about suspension and steering engineering so I have an understanding as to why. But each to their own I guess.

wow you've solved it you should be rich what do you drive by the way?