"MACK" style bar are all the rage on B&S utes as well
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"MACK" style bar are all the rage on B&S utes as well
Wonder if the OP's club also recommend using a towball for recoveries? Seriously. Who in their right mind would recommend the OEM hook to do recoveries from?
The $180 to fit it was also pretty amusing (as long as you aren't paying the bill).
Im thinking that they're not talking about the hook that comes on them all from the factory. I think he means an aftermarket recovery hook that is made by nissan as he mentions fitting. Not sure but that's my guessQuote:
Originally Posted by mudski
Don't really know mate, as I wouldn't have thought Nissan wouldn't make aftermarket recovery hooks. I'd be keen to see a Nissan "aftermarket" recovery hook though.
Yeah I haven't seen any but that doesn't mean much lol. Its just that he mentions fitting and we all know that those hooks come fitted?
So I don't mean to cause any trouble in posting other sites products so please inform me if I shouldn't do it, But has anyone here tested this rear recovery point/option? These just go straight into the where the towbar goes right?
http://www.patrolapart.com.au/produc...ch-with-bow-2/
And these for the front? http://www.patrolapart.com.au/produc...ecovery-point/
Yea ive got one and most people use these, they are great and by far the safest/easiest/cheapest option
Your fine to post that mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch.mccabe
Either or both are acceptable recovery points
The one for the towbar is just an ordinary recovery hitch and is a must for rear recoveries as tow balls can kill!
As for the front ones, get in touch with threeedogs on the forums here, his front recovery point outback ideas, are the most popular around here.
Technically speaking you shouldn't exceed the tow rating either should you? So you can have some rated to 4.5t everyday of the week but the highest any patrol can tow is 3.5....Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
This thread reminds me of when I first got my Patrol and was after some front recovery points. Not knowing back then of a member here making them I went to my local 4by shop and asked them. The guy bought out some OEM Yota hooks that were half the size of the Nissan one. Funny thing is he couldn't see a problem with snatching someone out even using the Yota hook. Needless to say I never returned into that shop.
While the OEM Nissan hook would probably be o.k for light recoveries, I would not dare trust it if I was in need of a, erm, more forceful snatch.
Which reminds me again of some years back, maybe 15 or so when I had my MK shorty. Was stuck good and proper, hung up on the diffs in a large bog hole. On my ARB bar I had a hook on that. Which mind you was considerably thicker than the Nissan hook. An old Yota with a chev in it had to snatch me out and after a few shots the hook actually straightened out and the snatch flew off.
So thinking of that time there is no way in hell I would use the Nissan hook....Each to their own but bet very careful when using it and always be prepared for the worst.
Plus atleast using the aftermarket plates with one on each side of the chassis and using a bridle strap you are evenly pulling on the chassis, not just from one side. That seriously can't be good for the chassis.
And on the subject of snatching and recovery, what is the minimum size snatch strap everyone uses? I know different models are weighted different, but the general consensus
Hi Mitch, I've just gone through this exercise, so will make some comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch.mccabe
I was planning to buy from one of our members who is also a vendor sponsor (threedogs) with his Outback Ideas recovery points. Unfortunately my 4.8 is one of the few models that I could not get the front points from TD as the radiator hangs lower and his style will not fit in the gap. His were a little cheaper, but would not have come with the bolts. Also his looked slightly thicker than the yellow ones.
So I ended up buying the yellow ones that you have the link to at Patrolapart (you will find these same ones from various sites). What I really liked about them is that they came with all the bolts. Where I put the second one on the side where there was not already a hook I needed longer bolts and it was all part of the kit. I haven't actually used them yet, but they look good and have a rating written on them (from Aus, so I assume it is up to that standard). I don't know too much about bolts, but am used to looking for bolts marked 8.8 for high tensile. When I looked at these they had 12.9 marked on them, so I looked that up on the web and seems they are to a higher standard again, so should be good.
I'll attach a few pics.
For the rear, on my old truck I used exactly the same thing as your other link and it was convenient and worked well. On this one I don't have a tow hitch. I bought one of TD's rear points and was happy with the build, price and quick service to get it in the post. Not sure yet if I will use it though, as I think it will cause me problems with the rear step. It does not stick out very far and I reckon the shackle will pull down and dent the rear step. I might go back to the original "pintle" hook. I just need to do some more homework on the rating of the pintle hook. I am not sure in the whole discussion about how it compares to the whole discussion of "tow balls", which you definitely must never snatch from. I'll also put some pics of this up.
If you want to follow up with TD about his recovery points you can send him a PM or post to his vendor thread:
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...covery-points/
Thanks,
Cameron.
When you are using a Snatch strap, they are meant to stretch. Because of this it is important to get a strap that is suited to your vehicle. So, if you get one with a rating that is too small it will stretch too much and possibly break. If you get one with a rating that is too high then it won't stretch enough and will then put too much impact on the points it is attached too and possibly break those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch.mccabe
- GVM of my GU is meant to be about 3000kg (probably more full of too much crap + extra for being "stuck")
- Strap should be about 2-3 times that in the rating. 2.5 x 3000 = 7500 kg
- So an 8000 kg MBS strap should be the right one. (whereas the nice big 15000 kg one that looks the goods would not be suited)
You can read all about ratings as they apply to 4wding in links below. MBS is Minimum Breaking Strength - after this it could break. You will also see terms like WLL (Working Load Limit) and RLL (Recovery Load Limit) - these are the limit of what you should safely apply. I don't think there is too much law governing 4wd use of straps and markings - just an industry code of practice I believe. This is different than lifting gear for construction, etc. There are laws governing that and things like breaking point should be 5+ times the rated useage, etc. But it's not my area, so don't quote me.
The write ups on these things also for a similar reason suggest using vehicles of similar size/weight in a snatch recovery. Obviously that's best, but in the real world the ideal circumstances don't always exist and most of us will agree on common sense safety approach to some extent. But snatching can involve enormous forces, so cutting corners with safety can have deadly consequences - literally! Personally I don't like snatching if I don't have to as you can't control too much how much force is involved (too easy to back up and give it more until something gives - hopefully the stuck 4by and not one of the recovery points) . Mostly in the sand we get stuck on a ridge (on the peak of a dune) and you can pull off gently with a tight strap or if things are bad most in our group have a winch.
Having said that, the snatch strap is still in my kit and has it's place to be used. Others love them and use them all the time.
Use the forum search for "snatch strap" and you will find heaps of threads. Do the same on google and you'll find even more, but take note of some of the articles where things went wrong. People die (usually from silly things like snatching off a tow ball - should never be done). Keep a few of these articles in the back of your mind (or even front) when you do a snatch to make sure you take a common sense approach and keep you, your mates and family safe.
Sorry for the small rant, but it is an important topic.
Take a look at something like:
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...atch-straps%29
You'll find the section, that mentions the different vehicle weights, etc.
SELECTING THE RIGHT RECOVERY STRAP
It is very important the correctly rated strap is used. A strap with a ‘too light’ breaking strength may break under load. A strap with ‘too heavy’ a breaking strength may not stretch properly and more stress will be placed on the recovery points, possibly causing damage or injury. The Minimum Breaking Strength (MBS) of the strap should be between 2 and 3 times the Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of the ‘lighter’ of the two vehicles used in the recovery process. Be aware that the Recovery Strap will be under greater load if the vehicle is bogged in mud, sand or heavily loaded. If the GVM is not stated on the identification plate of a vehicle or its registration certificate it could be available from the owner’s handbook or from the vehicle manufacturer.
You'll find pretty much the same info on some of the Snatch strap vendor sites. Like:
http://www.juststraps.com.au/instructions.htm
Lots of info there. Read things like "Force Calculation for Recovery2007.pdf". Gets you into thinking about extra forces required for how "stuck" the vehicle is or what angle you are pulling on (e.g. up hill).
hi Kurt
you can have the genuine one of my truck mate for a carton of beer. i have just put some of three dogs ones on
Cheers, thanks for the offer but I have already put the Nissan one on as found some in stock. Next time I am up your way will let you know and maybe we could share a couple of cartons of beer.:)
Here is the photo of the Nissan recovery points as requested earlier in the thread.
Ahhh so they are the stock factory ones. Do they actually call them "recovery" points or is it worded differently?
145$ for that! you could have had mine free I was going to use it to hang a pot plant on but was afraid it would bend
Yea sorry mate. Your club has to 're read the Nissan guide.. There tow points..
I got two Outback Ideas front recovery points on my GUrl and they look great.
Thanks John.
Attachment 34475Attachment 34476
I paid way too much n got arb front recovery point... That was before I became a forum member... I wouldn't trust one of them hooks... I've never seen them fail but just have a gut feeling that they are not up to standard for what my truck does... My wife n kids 4b with me too so not only do I wanna look after my troll but the cargo is priceless...
I got a set of threedogs points from arb only as I needed them ASAP but they are the same as mego's and only cost 90$ for two.. 55$ cheaper than that genuine hook lol
I think you need to read the owners hand book. Nissan does state to use it for recoveries......and not to be used for towing long distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
My ARB has only one set left, the rest in stock weren't his. (3dogs)Quote:
Originally Posted by megatexture
Thanks for sharing mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Bergmann
It's interesting that your club recommends using the Nissan ones.........going by some of the responses on here you would think they would fall off as soon as you looked at them.......lol
It's best to go with what your club recommends. I'm sure there more then suitable.....otherwise they wouldn't recommended them.
Arb here had two that fit my gu the other one weigh like 15 kg and only came as a drivers side and was like 160$ it also would have hung quite low.Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGOMONSTER
Yeah I find it kinda surprising but if thats what they say to use. Use it I suppose. But for the cost, or the time factor really, of the aftermarket plates, for all the time and effort I have put into my rig, I don't want to risk it. Plus snatching from one chassis rail alone seriously can't be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
????????? The OP has installed a second hook on the passenger side chassis rail. I can only assume this is so they can do a major recovery using both!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
But yeah what would Nissan, the OP's 4WD club and the OP know!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nissannewby
I still stand by my original statement as above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
I'm with Yendor. Apart from the fact that anything snatching a vehicle theoretically shouldn't exceed its tow rating in doing so, Nissan and I would say the 4wd clubs use these points as they were designed. They probably weren't designed for tyre deep sticky mud either but they are there for a reason. Sure there are stories of them being straightened but who can be sure they were actually being used correctly in the first place.
It doesn't matter what you believe etc etc everyone is guilty of exceeding something during a recover the only way anyone wouldn't have is if they havent been recovered or recovered someone there selves.
Better to use those then have the strap hooked over a bull bar
Yeah sorry Rod I just saw the pic....I was assuming he never had one and was just putting one back on the rhs... It would be good to actually see an OEM hook being put under stress testing just to see how strong, or weak, it actually is. Then this never ending issue might be laid to rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor
I agree with you there Matt but if we are technically speaking. Who is going to pull up to a recovery, knowing good that the equipment they have is more than sufficient to do the job but they say no they won't just because it will exceed the said rating and leave the stuck person to fend for themselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by nissannewby
There for light recoveries? What sort of recovery? Within saying that I would say using two of the aftermarket plates in conjunction with a bridle strap would be designed more so for a situation like tyre deep sticky mud. And from my well, very limited 4wd experience, that would be a high percentage of the type of recoveries you would use these points for. But then again this is where a winch would come into play maybe. Tyre deep sticky mud would be a killer on any sort of recovery gear...Quote:
They probably weren't designed for tyre deep sticky mud either but they are there for a reason.
excellent point you make there...Quote:
Sure there are stories of them being straightened but who can be sure they were actually being used correctly in the first place.
Never! We are all saints and do everything by the book. LolQuote:
It doesn't matter what you believe etc etc everyone is guilty of exceeding something during a recover the only way anyone wouldn't have is if they havent been recovered or recovered someone there selves.
Isn't the tow rating to do with the braking abilities of the vehicle not the actual draw bar strength?
Hey guys, just thought i would put my 2 cents worth in.
I recently purchased an ARB recovery point for the hefty price of $180, i know that they do charge alot for majority of their gear, but lets face it, what you pay is what you get, and ARB engineer and test all of their gear and i've not once seen a product fail (if installed correctly)
I've got a few Shots comparing the genuine nissan hook and the ARB point.
Below you can see it installed
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...4413e33461.jpg
And here you can see it compared to the genuine. Note; my genuine hook is no longer looped around and has streched out after ONE... yes ONE "light" recovery, i am lucky the snatch did not slip off during otherwise the damage might be more than just a bent recovery point. I would not trust these in any recovery situation after seeing this.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...8d961db43d.jpg
Viewing from the front you can see the main strength of the point runs alongside the chassis rail, but there is also a substantial support plat running underneath the chassis rail.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...5c2663d83a.jpg
And a view from underneath, 2 more high tensile bolts.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...68de985a70.jpg
Overall there is 5 High Tensile bolts securing this to the car, 3 more than the standard 2 bolts.
And also it gets bolted to two sides of the chassis rail not just the underside.
Only downfall to this i can see is it might hang a tad low and get caught up on some undulating terrain, but in my eyes its a small price to pay.
Would be nice to see a point for the Passenger side to bridle the two for equal load aswell, id be more worried the chassis will bend before this point gives away
As I read through all the threads no has mentioned that with the various after market ones is that they need shackles to hook up the various straps.....The one of the reasons why the club recommends using the 2 hooks is to avoid chassis flex and avoid flying shackles if one lets go. The shackle could be another weak link in the chain.
That is a fair and Valid point, but would you not think that shackling is safer than resting the strap on a hook (providing the shackle is rated) as it could easily slip of the standard hooks, i nearly experienced that first handQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Bergmann
yeah, as with all recoveries we have to be careful and do it safely. I think that's why their has been so many opinions. I used to have a Pajero with only one hook and never had any issues.....being a Pajero it was getting recovered a lot.
I think in any of these situations common sense has to be applied on top of all the guidelines. Sometimes things aren't going to line up as per the "rules" or the angle you want, etc. Removing a shackle from the equation is generally "common sense". For example everyone knows it is "bad" to join straps with a shackle, but that is mostly because the strap could break and the shackle will then fly, not because the shackle will break. A quality shackle will be marked with a WLL (Working Load Limit) and being made for the lifting industry should have a breaking point at least 5 times that WLL. So, again think it through, the shackle is probably one of the less likely items to break in your recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Bergmann
To me personally, I think the shackle to a good rated point makes more sense as you know it won't come off and that both the shackle and the recovery point designs have been tested and labelled. The original hook is just that - a hook that you wonder how much it is rated for (it is not documented anywhere and there are a few, hard to find, stories of the hook stretching)? Spreading the load across 2 points is just obvious - sometimes you won't bother because you just need a light pull, but if you're really stuck then again it just makes sense.