That's it then!!! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
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That's it then!!! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
Yep that would be my guess too..................lolololololQuote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
These are pintle hooks.Quote:
Originally Posted by clunk71
Tony
Thanks Tony, I'm not too mechanically minded, so have a lot to learn
Your not the only one Clunk, I've never heard of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by clunk71
Tony, why would anyone want one of those placed up so high???
You probably wouldn't put one up that high by choice, but if the mounting holes are already there then why not (YNOT!) make use of them and get rid of the useless loop that the factory put there. Would make it very easy to attach straps.
Tony
Yeah YNOThttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/Quote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
Ok here what a complete novice thinks:
The U piece is for attaching your safety chains from camper trailer etc up high out of the way? Pintle hooks are designed for ring feed draw bars and also positive lock down over european couplings.
Tony I still wouldn't snatch from these as they are only good for constant weight, not snatch weight.
As I said I am only noivice.
Pintle hitches work on the same principle as trigg hitches, they have a greater range of movement compared to ball hitches (the pintle spins 360 degrees).Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
but could you seriously tow from a pintle hook attached with 4 pissy little bolts like it would be on the patrol?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboGQ
Yes, you know with rated recovery points that they will withstand the force you intend to apply to them. Emphasis here on the "intend". Lots badly underestimate the amount of force required to "rescue" a vehicle, especially one that is down to the axles in whatever. Whether you are stuck in sand or mud or ruts, a bit of road building can significantly lessen the recovery forces e.g. by maybe 1/2. One recovery point at the rear or the front of the Patrol might be enough to recover the vehicle, but if it is badly stuck then applying all the recovery force at the one point on a chassis rail risks permanent distortion to the chassis. Spreading the load over two recovery points (front or rear) reduces the force transferred to each during a recovery, especially if used with a bridle chain - the objective is to have each recovery point subject to 1/2 of the force required for recovery. So if you have two recovery points (hooks or plates) rated at say 4 Tonnes then you can safely apply 7 Tonnes to recover the vehicle - a bridle chain will help to evenly distribute that force i.e. 3.5 Tonne to each chassis rail.
It looks like the bolts or screws in the pixs of the recovery plates are high tensile and NOT mild steel (hardware store variety). The safety of the recovery plate installation depends upon fasteners that will not fail and their secure (read "fully tightened", with a tension wrench if need be) fastening to the chassis rails. The price of some high tensile fasteners is a bit of a horror story, but don't compromise. Like with recovery plates or hooks go for higher than necessary rating, rather than under rating.
Not in favour of tow bars, balls, hitches - pintle or otherwise, as recovery points. That is not their intended purpose. Put simply - they are not designed for that use.
I agree with most of what you said above.
I would not recommend the use of a bridle chain, I believe using a properly rated bridle strap would be safer as it removes a heavy object from the recovery. I realize snatch blocks and shackles are heavy but they have not lighter alternative.
That's just my opinion, others may disagree.
Tony
The later models (after 02) that have the hook on one side and the bolt go vertically up are swappable from side to side. Better idea though is to whack another one on the other side and use an equalising strap on both to share the load.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
I hear you YNOT, a bridle strap would be preferred. The question is how to find a rated strap.
A bridle chain is easy – go to a lifting supplier and specify the length and rating of the chain you want, grab a couple of rated ends and you have a rated bridle chain.
Maybe someone knows a supplier of rated customised straps - or one suitable for use as a bridle.
The best I can think of is a fabric lifting sling – it would have to be doubled up, but might serve the purpose of a relatively light rated bridle thing.
There are plenty of bridle straps readily avail, tree trunk protectors can be used also.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/4WD-EQUALISER...item45f587f147
So the hook on the drivers side of my GU should not be used as a recovery point?
Definitely not. My understanding is that they were shipping tiie down points during transportation. Many people use them as recovery points, but I don't think they're safe enough and I won't be hooking up either as the recoverer or recoveree to anybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUte
I'm not DIY savvy and pay to get everything done.
Read article #11 (page 2) on this thread. I bought a pair (L&R) from ARB, for about $50 from memory. The guys actually took the 'hook' off and replaced it with the proper recovery points.
You'll need to get the salesperson to get under your truck and have a look because there are different types. Mine curves at the top.
I'll get under my truck shortly and post another pic or two.
Take care out there.
Ross
Here's what I have on DX grunt for front recovery points .... 2005 GU DX ute. I have a left and right hand side. I think they're sold in pairs only.
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...pcradle002.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ypoints001.jpg
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ypoints002.jpg
As NIZZBITS said use an equalizer strap. Readily available from any good 4x4 outlet. Extreme Limits have them from $38.50.
OK... just to keep the keyboard war going... Rated means that a device has been engineered and then tested (usually destructive) and rated to a specific Safe Working Load.
EG a 4.2 tonne rated shackle, an 8,000 lb rated sling or strap.
Sooo if the aftermarket Recovery Points from ARB, TJM, et al are genuinely "Rated" what is the Safe Working Load?
I suggest (slightly tongue in cheek) that the vast majority of recovery points flogged by Shops are no more rated than the Nissan points. NOTE, that I am not arguing which is stronger I am arguing that the vast majority of aftermarket poinst are not truly rated either and it is just a generic term used for Sales...
This actually gets on my goat a bit possibly because as an SES trainer I stress to people that lives depend on ensuring you budget your gear for the correct loads and a statement of "that is OK to use because it is rated" usually gets "Cool, rated to what load?" response from me.
If you can't tell me the answer to that question then the piece of kit is useless, well not useless exactly, but is being used with equal ignorance to it's safe working load as any other piece.
Rant over...
Someone may correct if I am wrong, but “ratings” are usually related to some sort of Standard e.g. Australian, British, American.
The Standard sets out “boundary parameter” such as intended use and the means by which a product is to be installed and/or operated.
A testing authority, such as a NATA testing operator, will test a product in regard to its compliance with a Standard (in all respects).
In the absence of a Standard, a Standard might be adopted as being relevant and applicable to the testing (and “rating”) of a product and the report that issues from the testing authority will spell out in detail what aspects of the Standard were adopted as relevant to the testing.
Testing to “destruction” is not essential, but a manufacturer having incurred significant expense in arranging the test will usually ask that its product is tested to destruction for (a) R&D purposes and/or (b) “bragging rights”.
The important bit is that a test by a NATA testing authority report is generally more reliable than a set of manufacturers/importers claims floated in the ether.
But keep in mind that testing authorities only test what they are asked to and paid to test. It is not their job to create “boundary parameters” or any standards.
A difficulty with recover items – e.g. plates, hooks, straps, etc. – is that there is a wide variety of directions in which force is and may be applied to those items.
For example, lifting chains and hooks are tested in a straight line pull – chains intended for use as slings are tested differently.
So it is that in the absence of anything better, “ratings” or pseudo ratings are created by drawing a line between equipment used for lifting and the same equipment used for “pulling” i.e. recovery uses.
Although strictly speaking the “pulling” use is not the same as a “lifting” use, many would probably agree that “pulling” is a lesser use.
Accordingly, many would accept a NATA tested “lifting” product as generally suitable for “pulling” uses.
Without a written report by an independent testing authority, no one can truly say whether or not a product will perform the way and to a standard for which it may have been designed.
That’s it for the time being.
Good post TKN... Zactly, what I'm talking about. I was a NATA signatory in a Cal and Testing Lab in the 90"s
A bit of steel plate with a pair of bolts may as well be MA15+ rated and only used after 8:30 at night.
Rated equipment has a WWL (or SWL old school) which is then identified on the equipment or is manufactured against a minimum Standard and rated accordingly.
The "Nissan Hook" and the "XYZ plate" are equally unrated IMHO. Sure one "might" be stronger than the other but as too which one and what load you can apply, who the Hell knows... "Rated" Pfffft, yeah, right... until a manufacturer publishes, attaches or stamps a WWL rating on the gear so you can sue his rrrse if it fails, Rated it is not.
Just went to ARB (osbourne park) and they claimed they don't sell them as they are not allowed to fit them without the being properly engineered. I'll nip up to perth4x4 to see if ash has any in yet (he didnt a couple of weeks ago)Quote:
Originally Posted by DX grunt
I got mine in Mandurah. Ask Wayne.
Ross
Cheers mateyQuote:
Originally Posted by DX grunt
have a look at page GI 21 of the GQ (Y60) Nissan Factory Manual available on this site. The factory hooks, except for the pintle at the rear, are 'only for emergency' - dunno for sure whether that is for emergency tow truck towing, or for emergency out of mud etc. the rear pintle is stated not to be for towing another vehicle etc, but 'for emergency, i.e. when getting the vehicle out of the mud' -which one might think would carry across to the 'emergency' use of the hooks located elsewhere....... or not
Of course, those who remember the TV ads when the GQ replaced the mighty MQ, may recall that a station wagon appeared in a starring role towing a broken down ferry across a river, using of course that rear mounted point above the back step. I seem to recall there may have been a tojo on the ferry :-)
I'm pleased I had a look, because it seems I am to lift the front of my wagon on the trolley jack under the centre of the diff, as opposed to under the pumpkin - so that will make it quicker. However, old mate over the road with his ute will still have to jack up each side apparently........ see page GI - 17.
Speaking of jacks, as my GQ has factory 15" wheels, the factory jack does not [always] fit under the diff when a tyre is completely flat...... I have a tojo jack that is a bit more squat that fits nicely under the diff - must see if it will fit into the spot in the back if not may hunt around for a squat hydraulic jack [late update, the factory jack that came with my Mav has about 30 mm clearance under the diff when the tyre is flat, however I have had issues with the mate's GQ - tyre in the dirt, jack on the tar....]
does anyone know how strong the black hoop is on the back of a y60???
tie down point only DO NOT use this for anything in recoveryQuote:
Originally Posted by benzo
are they hooks or holes cant see
I transplanted this from DIY as it seems to fit better here
G'day,
Some questions below, and also a link to an interesting Kiwi site.
Thanks to all who have contributed here on this topic - fascinating.
I've been thinking about options for a second recovery point on the front of the Mav for a while now. It has 10R15 all terrain tyres, and rear lsd only, so will fail to proceed rather than dig humungous holes I think. At one stage I had Pirelli Dakkars on an MQ - they didn't dig holes and failed to proceed on wet grass, but were great in sand.
Anyhooo....
I have an 8000 kg breaking strain snatch strap, and an 8000kg bridle that I think is 2.5m long. thus the enclosed angle of the bridle will be a bit less than 45 degrees. with the benefit of hindsight, I could have got a longer bridle.
This Kiwi site has some interesting test results and thoughts, albeit a few years old now:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewto...051e0d27cc4221 Note they like hooks etc. that straighten rather than break.
I have decided to fit an Outer Limits plate to the inside of the LHS dumb iron that is, the chassis behind the bull/bumper bar (alloy 'factory' bar in my case). I know to use grade 8.8 metric bolts - which are apparently similar to grade 5 in old scale. Strong but not too brittle
I was thinking of fitting a plate inside the chassis to spread the load. (there are no captive nuts on this side) I mentioned this to boilermaker mate who is keen to weld the nuts to the plate. I'll speak to the bolt shop about this as it can't help the temper of the nut, but I don't know if this is significant. It will make it easier to fit, but I don't plan on taking it off again :-)
Any views on the value of a plate over washers? Any views from experts on effect of welding the nuts?
I was not going to fit a hook to the spot on the Outer Limits plate, however if the mighty Mav is to be snatched, the snatcher has to be happy, and may insist on a hook. With that in mind I'll probably get a rated hook from a reputable outlet, and fit that to the Outer Limits plate
There are no signs of damage to the factory hook. The vehicle to date has been used to tow things, as far as I can tell, rather than off roading - and certainly I haven't belted or used it. Given I am going to use a bridle/equaliser, I am thinking of leaving the factory hook in place - would welcome your views.
Thanks in anticipation
MadK1w1 posted:
Silver I made my own plates from 12mm plate they bolt to the side of chassis rail where the bullbar bolts go and have both a hook bolted to them and a hole for a shacle to fit.
I discussed with the Boily at work, lifting lugs require the radius of hole as the minimum "meat" from hole to edge, according to him and they lift 5plus tonne on this principle, no problem with this in my world.
I am yet to see a rated SWL stamped on any recovery point supplied for a 4wd, could be wrong there, comes down to users if it looks dodgy don't use it! I'll grab some pics tomorrow if interested, still have one not fitted due to general mods going on.
found some of those two bolt hooks with a 4500kg W.L.L. marked on the packaging, so bought a couple to go onto my nice new recovery plates.
Nice to have a W.L.L. rather than some other ambiguous statement that may or may not mean the same thing!
Good StuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Where did you find the hooks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Tony
Thanx that post was a big help
I found them at Autobarn Virginia while chasing up plug leads and plugs, ok ok they were at the other end of the shop :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by YNOT
they are T-Max brand, the hook is marked max load 10000lbs, the packaging WLL 4,500kg/10,000 lb, and they claim to be hardened steel.
The packaging says made in Taiwan and shows an address at 55 Brownlee Street Pinkenba (suburb of Brisvegas for those of you who live elsewhere) and a web address www.t-max.com.au
I also bought a couple more 4.75 tonnne bow shackles from the same crowd at the same place. Worse than going to a fishing tackle shop. Bill for leads, plugs two hooks and two shackles was about $150 :-) the shackles are $18 and the hooks $20
That's me then tomorrow - I'll go get another front one for the truck. Thanks mate!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
we might see if they are any good in the weekend commencing 28 May? :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
Today I found some of those black recovery hooks that are actually marked 4500kg WLL, which is an improvement on the ones I found at Autobarn, where it was only marked with a WLL on the packaging. This is from a camping shop on Old Gympie Road just opposite Paisley Drive and next to a great fresh fish shop - which is where I was headed. I looked carefully at the name, however that part of the hard drive has perhaps been wiped by the rumbos. The shop has some 4wd drive accessory type stuff and wears an Opposite Lock label or two out the front. I think the shop is pretty new and they are still setting up to a degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Supercheap have 4500kg WLL hooks on sale at the moment f0r a touch under $15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
page 2 of pamphlet http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/catalogue-au.aspx
Thanks mate - seems to be a popular item at the moment - everyone is chasing them!!
yeah, got my bridle from Supercheap, and went back later to get some shackles. They had two, one had a stripped thread out of the box..... doesn't say much for quality control of a rated product, and made me wonder about my bridle a bit. Certainly put me off the hooks, which were also on my list.Quote:
Originally Posted by molongmick