Stutter and shutdown.

[Steve0.adams]

I have a 92 24v Safari td42 silvertip, while on the way to work this morning I was slowing down behind someone who was turning. While slowing down the engine started to stutter like it was going to shut down. Sped up and everything was fine. Felt smooth and no weird noises. After work it started and drove fine. parked it for a couple hours then had to move it out of the driveway. It stuttered again and shutdown this time. It took a couple tries but it started up again and was stuttering. Seems like when the rpm's are higher it has no issues. I just changed the oil and filters. Any ideas on what might have caused this?

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[mudnut]

TDs are simple beasts. It might be the fuel pump or air leak in the fuel system or something similar. Hopefully a Diesel Guru can point you in the right direction.

[Steve0.adams]

Well, I changed out the oil. I suspect that the oil the shop put in was either not the correct viscosity or it was for petrol engines. It ran great for the first couple days. Then started shuddering. Once that happened I noticed that the oil gauge was reading almost nothing and would only go up when I was going up a hill at high revs. Didn't notice any excessive smoke coming out of the exhaust but it smelled like an old diesel heater. So based off of that, it was either my oil pump failed or I had a light weight viscosity oil. Changed it out with a 20w40 for diesels and my gauge immediately started reading I had oil pressure. Ranging between the 2 and the 4, idle and driving. I hope I caught it in time and caused no permanent damage. I did not see any metal in the oil. And so far there has been no significant shuddering.

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[nipagu7]

i believe the 4.2s have a small screen mesh filter where the fuel line goes into the injector pump and they can block up and they mostly get overlooked when servicing the car . when you take the fuel line off you have to look carefully as some people seem to not notice the mesh .

[Steve0.adams]

i believe the 4.2s have a small screen mesh filter where the fuel line goes into the injector pump and they can block up and they mostly get overlooked when servicing the car . when you take the fuel line off you have to look carefully as some people seem to not notice the mesh .I already cleaned that out during a previous maintenance. But thank you for the reply.

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[Steve0.adams]

I'm back at it. Started to shudder again over the weekend. Oil pressure is fine. It seems to happen randomly. It can start up fine with no shuddering and the next it will shudder with rpm dropping to 300-400. As well as sometimes when I let off the accelerator while stopping. I did double check the gauze filter in the injector pump again. It had a few very small pieces of debris. My next educated guess is fuel filter and or injectors. Only issue is there are no parts available on Guam. Going to put in an order for injectors and fuel filter through patrolapart. In the mean time I will get a can of liqui Moly diesel purge to see if that will tide me over. Any other suggestions would be very welcome.

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[mihit]

Hand prime/pump to bleed air out of the fuel system as far as the injector pump. it should also show you if diesel is leaking past a hose connection etc. then you can start the thing and crack the injectors one by one to make sure they're bled up too.
i always suggest to fit an electric diesel lift pump to help the old girls out.

I guess also check the wiring to your fuel solenoid (lower side of injector pump) and make sure that is solid.

[mihit]

Oh, Manual or auto?? If auto then something-something TC or whatever. I don't deal with autos! :D

[Steve0.adams]

Hand prime/pump to bleed air out of the fuel system as far as the injector pump. it should also show you if diesel is leaking past a hose connection etc. then you can start the thing and crack the injectors one by one to make sure they're bled up too.
i always suggest to fit an electric diesel lift pump to help the old girls out.

I guess also check the wiring to your fuel solenoid (lower side of injector pump) and make sure that is solid.Thanks for the suggestion I will bleed it when I get home. It is an auto.

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[nipagu7]

i don't think shuddering after lifting off throttle would be a fuel thing . a bit above my experience level but maybe harmonic balancer or torque converter or a very very outside chance, a broken crankshaft . hope i am wrong , even the harmonic balancer can be a pain to replace .

[MudRunnerTD]

Is it puffing any smoke when it shudders? White or Black? How many kms? Something is a little off. They are a pretty simple engine in terms of falt finding. Air, Fuel. Have you checked your air filter? is it turbo charged?

[Steve0.adams]

i don't think shuddering after lifting off throttle would be a fuel thing . a bit above my experience level but maybe harmonic balancer or torque converter or a very very outside chance, a broken crankshaft . hope i am wrong , even the harmonic balancer can be a pain to replace .I am fairly new to vehicles with issues. Been very lucky with the vehicles I have owned so far. So I have been scouring forums for similar symptoms and seeing if it relates to my rig and if it does, trying their fixes. I am very much an untrained novice diy/YouTube mechanic. So if I sound like I'm heading in the wrong direction feel free to course correct me at any time.

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[Steve0.adams]

Is it puffing any smoke when it shudders? White or Black? How many kms? Something is a little off. They are a pretty simple engine in terms of falt finding. Air, Fuel. Have you checked your air filter? is it turbo charged?I haven't noticed any smoke when it shudders. The only time I see smoke is under hard acceleration going up a hill and it is black smoke. It just hit 215,000 kms. I've only put about 3000 on it since I got it. And it is a NA silvertop.

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[mudski]

Next time it shudders, get out and pump the primer on the filter head. See if the shudder stops or not.


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[Steve0.adams]

Might have more than one problem. Primed the fuel line using the manual pump no leaks. Bled lines to injectors. Ran fine yesterday. Went to go to work this morning and made it out of my driveway and my street. Turn onto a fairly busy street. No acceleration at all. Tried going through the gears manually and nothing. Seems like that gearbox is out. Yay

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[BrazilianY60]

So I have been scouring forums for similar symptoms and seeing if it relates to my rig and if it does, trying their fixes. I am very much an untrained novice diy/YouTube mechanic.

That is all about off roading fun Steve! Fun when out offroading, fun fixing or improving things, even fun tinkering with things that are good before you touch them and maybe not after!

[BrazilianY60]

Tried going through the gears manually and nothing. Seems like that gearbox is out.

You changed lever positions and gears were not changed? The only thing I can imagine for such a symptom would be the shift lever itself, broken below the pivot ball.

Oh, maybe not... if the clutch slave fails and get stuck, the clutch would stay released, no power to the transmission and you would be able to switch through gears to no result.

[mihit]

Have to make a call on time and $$ sunk vs convert it to a real (manual) wagon :P

So engine runs and revs but no power to wheels?

My next guess would be solenoid block on auto box. A fluid change/flush MAY fix it. But then it could be electrical, and once you invoke the dark arts of electrickery, all bets are off.

[Steve0.adams]

Had to park it on the side of the road this morning so I could go to work. Dangerous here in Guam do to part thieves. Heres to hoping I have all my wheels when I get back today. When I left it this morning it had died after I lost ability to put it in gear. I was not able to get it to start again.

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[Steve0.adams]

Have to make a call on time and $$ sunk vs convert it to a real (manual) wagon [emoji14]

.

I haven't really sunk a lot of money in it yet. Just the cost of buying 10k and about $500 in filters oil, atf, stereo and speakers. I was already looking at getting a nomad valve from Wholesale Automatic Transmissions. So I might invest in one of their upgraded extreme transmissions. Parts availability in the middle of the ocean is hard enough for stock so I think I would have a pretty hard time finding parts for converting to a manual.

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[Steve0.adams]

Went to work on my rig this afternoon. Now I'm getting the water in fuel filter light on the dash. I know it says in the manual to not continue driving when the light pops on. But doesn't shut it down?

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[BrazilianY60]

You would have to drain the water captured at the fuel filter. If you did and it is still on, the wire or the sensor could be shorted to ground.

[BrazilianY60]

You changed lever positions and gears were not changed? The only thing I can imagine for such a symptom would be the shift lever itself, broken below the pivot ball.

Oh, maybe not... if the clutch slave fails and get stuck, the clutch would stay released, no power to the transmission and you would be able to switch through gears to no result.

Nevermind this, I was thinking manual transmission.

[Steve0.adams]

Not having any luck. I had to tow it back to my house and for the life of me I can't get it started again.

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[mihit]

Not having any luck. I had to tow it back to my house and for the life of me I can't get it started again.

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Oh bugger!

As above I'd check for water in the diesel filter... there's a drain at the bottom.
Then bleed the fuel system all again.

A compression/ leakdown test will show up any problems with head gasket and piston rings, but I think that's unlikely.

Next would be set the valves...they do wear. I'm not sure how far out they'd have to be for a no-start though.

Again, check the fuel solenoid at the injector pump. You can hotwire this if needed.
Put a hot wire to the spade lug and feel for a "click" - then make sure the OEM wiring has voltage when the key is "ON"
When cranking you should be seeing a good squirt of diesel at the injector nuts when they're loosened slightly.

Beyond that unfortunately sounds like computer/auto issue which is where I run out of knowledge :/

[Steve0.adams]

Oh bugger!

As above I'd check for water in the diesel filter... there's a drain at the bottom.
Then bleed the fuel system all again.

A compression/ leakdown test will show up any problems with head gasket and piston rings, but I think that's unlikely.

Next would be set the valves...they do wear. I'm not sure how far out they'd have to be for a no-start though.

Again, check the fuel solenoid at the injector pump. You can hotwire this if needed.
Put a hot wire to the spade lug and feel for a "click" - then make sure the OEM wiring has voltage when the key is "ON"
When cranking you should be seeing a good squirt of diesel at the injector nuts when they're loosened slightly.

Beyond that unfortunately sounds like computer/auto issue which is where I run out of knowledge :/Thanks for the info.

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[Steve0.adams]

It's alive!!!! Well it turns out that the water drain valve was the culprit. For the no start. When I got the water in the fuel filter light, I drained as required. Tightened the valve back up primed and primed again. But turns out that valve wasn't tight enough so everytime I tried to turn the vehicle on either the fuel was squirting out the valve or air was getting sucked up. Either way it caused air in the lines which caused it not to start. I am however still having random low rpm (shuddering) issues. When I got the go pedal to keep it from stalling, the rpm's go up but very delayed. I can set the choke(locking accelerator knob)to keep it running and then the rpm's climb. In addition to my existing issues. My ignition decided it didn't want to give my key back. Still trying to figure that one out.

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[Plasnart]

It's alive!!!! Well it turns out that the water drain valve was the culprit. For the no start. When I got the water in the fuel filter light, I drained as required. Tightened the valve back up primed and primed again. But turns out that valve wasn't tight enough so everytime I tried to turn the vehicle on either the fuel was squirting out the valve or air was getting sucked up. Either way it caused air in the lines which caused it not to start. I am however still having random low rpm (shuddering) issues. When I got the go pedal to keep it from stalling, the rpm's go up but very delayed. I can set the choke(locking accelerator knob)to keep it running and then the rpm's climb. In addition to my existing issues. My ignition decided it didn't want to give my key back. Still trying to figure that one out.

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Great to hear Steve. As for the key, sounds like your barrel pins or key are worn (or probably both). Been there done that myself in a daily drive road vehicle. Just stump up for a locksmith, couple of hundred bucks and you will be as good as new. Much better than being stranded out in the bush. Mine was getting hard to turn the key.
It kept locking in the barrell. It would only intermittently turn but would slide in and out. Sounds different but similar to your issue.

[Steve0.adams]

Turns out, it was due to my trouble shooting of the auto transmission. I adjusted the gear selector linkage to align the gear shift handle better to the detents in each range. Got it right in the mark. But it is 30 years old. So it was hitting each gear detent spot on. But park is slightly off so the button that allows you to change into drive and reverse etc. Didn't pop out. Which in turn made it seem like I wasn't in park, not allowing the ignition to release the key. A safety feature so your car doesn't roll away. Lol

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[Steve0.adams]

After adjusting the shifter linkage and changing the tranny fluid. The beast is up and driving. I did run some liquimoly diesel purge through and initially it was struggling with rough/low idle. But seems to have cleared up. I feel like I didn't really do anything and the issues are gone. But feel like they might be lurking right around the corner.

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[mihit]

Everyone loves a happy ending... :)

I'd do that valve adjust... one more thing not to worry about.
And I'd move "injectors" (recondition or replace) up the priority list.

[Steve0.adams]

This beast just keeps throwing things at me. Water pump is now leaking out of the weep hole. I guess its teaching me how to work on it. I just hate the wait for parts.

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[mihit]

The joys of owning a 30 year old vehicle. :D

Maybe add a full set of underbody bushes (panhard, tierods, draglinks etc), seals for clutch slave cylinder, new vacuum boosters (clutch and brake), clutch kit plus fork and throwout bearing, brake hoses, brake rotors.

I think that's about all that I've HAD to replace on (all of) mine... a spare alternator and vacuum pump, viscous hub and fan blade, radiator shrouds, even radiator, could also be added to the spares bin...

[mihit]

as a quick and dirty, and very temporary, you can put breakfast in the radiator... crack an egg and a couple tablespoons of ground black pepper. It will seal it from the inside out.

[mudnut]

This beast just keeps throwing things at me. Water pump is now leaking out of the weep hole. I guess its teaching me how to work on it. I just hate the wait for parts.

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At least you have a water pump you can get to. Unlike the RB30, where you have to pull the harmonic balance, timing cover and timing belt before even starting on the pump.:{

[mihit]

At least you have a water pump you can get to. Unlike the RB30, where you have to pull the harmonic balance, timing cover and timing belt before even starting on the pump.:{

Try doing it on a toymotor... all that, plus the access is through knockouts in the body you need a small japanese child's hands to reach through!!

[Steve0.adams]

Are the 4 bolts that hold the pulley on reusable? New pump didn't come with them. If not, anybody know the specs on them? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230223/2bafece660313babc2daa2260c9ce211.jpg

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[mudnut]

Yep. They are not over-torque bolts. The torque values should be list in the manuals you can download from this forum.


Page 3-2 lists the 4.2 litre engine water pump to engine block bolts as 16-19 nm and nuts as 30-40nm. Although It doesn't specify if it is the 4.2 petrol or diesel.

[Steve0.adams]

Thanks for the info. Sasquatch is up and running.

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