Deaths from towballs

[BigRAWesty]

My mates also noticed the sticker on me rear door over the weekend and asked why..

I told em how the snap and I was made a fool. I finished with "tow balls are rated to tow, gradually applying load.. Not 2.5-3 ton like a rocket.."

That got them thinking..

[BigRAWesty]

Come to think if it..
I call BS to anyone who says the load on a snatch strap is bugga all...
If you are the recovery vehicle and get stopped in your tracks by the stuck truck you could well be applying double the weight of your car to the strap..

[patrol2.8]

Reading the last few posts makes you realise that getting this message across wil be a never ending battle but still one worth doing

[patrol2.8]

Its amazing just how dumb the human race can be came across two cars the other day one stuck the other about to snatch from his treg hitch that's right put the treg pin through the snatch and locked it in makes you wonder if the message will ever get through when i asked he they thought it was safe reply was yeah safer than using a towball

[my third 256]

Its amazing just how dumb the human race can be came across two cars the other day one stuck the other about to snatch from his treg hitch that's right put the treg pin through the snatch and locked it in makes you wonder if the message will ever get through when i asked he they thought it was safe reply was yeah safer than using a towball
nothing wrong with that as many menbers do this

[Bloodyaussie]

Its amazing just how dumb the human race can be came across two cars the other day one stuck the other about to snatch from his treg hitch that's right put the treg pin through the snatch and locked it in makes you wonder if the message will ever get through when i asked he they thought it was safe reply was yeah safer than using a towball

This is exceptable when you dont have a proper rear shackle... we have managed to bend one of those pins on a recovery.

[Winnie]

Patrol2.8 is talking about a hitch like this, I can't see that being safe.

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p726/orch1968/towhitch_zps930255c9.jpg

[Bloodyaussie]

Patrol2.8 is talking about a hitch like this, I can't see that being safe.

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p726/orch1968/towhitch_zps930255c9.jpg

Oh...... sorry you know the one I mean !!!!!!

[patrol2.8]

Patrol2.8 is talking about a hitch like this, I can't see that being safe.

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p726/orch1968/towhitch_zps930255c9.jpg

Thanks winnie that's the one im talking about can't see how anyone would even try a snatch using it

[jack]

Thanks winnie that's the one im talking about can't see how anyone would even try a snatch using it
Yeap, mine is rated at 3000kg and definitely not safe. If no alternative pull the complete unit out of the receiver and place the snatch strap into the receiver and use the pin. BA is big on safety so I think that's what he meant.

[mudnut]

I have thought about getting the picture of the Yota with the towball imbedded in the tailgate, and have it on hand to show what can happen. When my sister saw the picture, she went pale, because she has towball recovered many bogged vehicles.

[growler2058]

I rekon it was early days that I joined the forum that there was a post of the latest Aussie killed. It was a mum in the passengers seat, got hit in the throat from memory in W.A..........her kids were in the back seat.....

[my third 256]

Yeap, mine is rated at 3000kg and definitely not safe. If no alternative pull the complete unit out of the receiver and place the snatch strap into the receiver and use the pin. BA is big on safety so I think that's what he meant.
thats what i ment too

[threedogs]

Watch the news tonight there is something about a towball smashing through a lady's windscreen

[MudRunnerTD]

Here is one for all to have a good think about. Apparently this is from an Aussie guy recently. I got it off Facebook but the owner of the car has commented.

Notice the steel winch rope. It is likely that they were not using a Rope Dampener.

Be Safe guys, Stand Clear, Manage the Risk


48300

[macca86]

Just a quick one in regards to winch hooks.
You should always point the opening of the hook pointing upwards.
Why?
Because if the hook should fail by straightening out or a forging/casting fault it will force it down to the ground rather than fly up an into the air rather than solely relying on the dampener to catch it.

[macca]

Interesting idea will use my winch like that in future, thanks for a good idea. Not seen a hook break but just in case.

[Natolpatrol]

There was a video on liveleaks that showed a recovery from a towball, which broke the towball off and flew at 2 people which died. Looked to be at a competition to which is sad.

[Ric]

Not a towball but I have seen the same thing happen when a tie down hook was used to try and snatch a car out of a bog. Luckily it flew back and went through the grill and not the windscreen but could have been tragic if a little higher. :eek::frown:
Use the proper gear or dont do it at all

[bushwacker]

If those figures are right that is tragic way too many preventable deaths

[Golioth]

I never realized the death toll was so high. that's terrible

[pasbogdan]

Another note to add to this WARNING.

This weekend we were 4wding and had to snatch a Suzuki Feroza from a river crossing. there was a bit of a current and we were in a bit if a panic about them being washed away, the snatch strap was hooked over the Factory Tow hook on the front of the Zook. Thinking these tow hooks would be a safe place to snatch from I hooked the snatch onto there, being in a rush and expecting it to be an easy snatch of pulling a dead and light 4wd and a 10,000kg snatch the dampener bad was forgotten... this almost ended in my girlfriend being KILLED. If I hadn't shut the rear hatch it would have hit her for sure. The Factory Tow hook flew off the Zook smashing it into the rear door of a 100 series Cruiser with enough force to punch two holes and a big dent in both halves of the door.

So i think it's safe to add Factory tow hooks to the "DANGER list" And remember kids, ALWAYS use the dampener bag!!!

17432
I think factory or aftermarket hooks are more dangerous compared to a tow bar rigid mounted on rear of the chassis.Seen lots of cars with hooks welded on the front bumper.That font bumper lots of people made and install just for look,not thinking about rigid connection between bumper and chassis.

[BigRAWesty]

I think factory or aftermarket hooks are more dangerous compared to a tow bar rigid mounted on rear of the chassis.Seen lots of cars with hooks welded on the front bumper.That font bumper lots of people made and install just for look,not thinking about rigid connection between bumper and chassis.

That's why you should always purchase rated recovery points.
Outback ideas (vendor here) do a great set and are rated for pulling. Not lifting like some others do

[BillsGU]

.......... and are rated for pulling. Not lifting like some others do

Didn't know there was such a thing. How do they do that?

[pasbogdan]

That's why you should always purchase rated recovery points.
Outback ideas (vendor here) do a great set and are rated for pulling. Not lifting like some others do
Like most repairs and upgrades on patrol you make them on your own.If you start building custom bumpers you should know a 2mm thick plate bolted with 8mm screws on the frame will not hold.As most of winch plates sold from companies will not be ok.

[Darren M]

As a newbie with a 4wd, this may be one of the most important things I will ever learn NOT to do.

[macca]

Mate a good thing to know,definitely.

[jerrylee]

It is easy to forget about safety because either we are lazy or for the split second we say hey it wont happen to us safety is no laughing mater or a joke as i do i always preach safety before i do something with my Patrol or my boat safety first fun later & always inspect your recovery gear after every use.

[dysonest]

another in the news, dont think he died but it snapped

[threedogs]

another in the news, dont think he died but it snapped

Entirely preventable, its so simple.
It wasn't a towball but it was bad practice from someone
who should have known better.
I wonder if charges could be made if found the person hooking up the straps
was underqualified, His parents must be asking a heap of questions.
IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN AUST, BUT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE
every 4X4 should have this stickers,,,,, is it one of Lucas"s

AND NEVER JOIN 2 STRAPS WITH A SHACKLE

Do we know the kids name in the Patrol?

[Maxhead]

Hello gods of the higher powers, it might be an idea to merge the other two threads into this sticky so it stays up the top and keeps everything neat:)

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?34198-Another-recovery-mishap
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5715-Tow-ball-failure-claims-another-life

Leave it up to you to decide

[NissanGQ4.2]

Great Idea Kris.

Not as easy as it sounds, I had every intention of doing it but when the threads are merged together it will turn into one big mess.

Unless boss man knows an easier way, I'm leaving as is



Hello gods of the higher powers, it might be an idea to merge the other two threads into this sticky so it stays up the top and keeps everything neat:)

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?34198-Another-recovery-mishap
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?5715-Tow-ball-failure-claims-another-life

Leave it up to you to decide

[MudRunnerTD]

I will just Leave this here...................



60550

[Winnie]

WHOAH! That's effing crazy!
Would only have taken a very light snatch to send that one flying like a missile!

[taslucas]

The reason a young guy died down the west of tassie was because the hitch was welded in and rusted out from the inside. The coroners report said the average wall thickness was down to 2mm.

[King_ady1]

Entirely preventable, its so simple.
It wasn't a towball but it was bad practice from someone
who should have known better.
I wonder if charges could be made if found the person hooking up the straps
was underqualified, His parents must be asking a heap of questions.
IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN AUST, BUT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE
every 4X4 should have this stickers,,,,, is it one of Lucas"s

AND NEVER JOIN 2 STRAPS WITH A SHACKLE

Do we know the kids name in the Patrol?

Love this sticker. Any1 know where/who I can get one from?
It's something I never knew until I came to who forum a few years ago.
I'm just grateful that all those times with the hilux nothing bad ever happened from it. And I'm glad I found out before it actually happened.

Being 17 and never being told... Who was to know better?? Educating the new 4x4ers is a priority. For many reasons.

[4bye4]

"Love this sticker. Any1 know where/who I can get one from?"
Tried searching goggle for it and no result. What about making them and distributing through here. Taslucas, is this something you would do?

[taslucas]

Yo! Which sticker we talking about?

tappin from tassie

[threedogs]

Death from tow ball sticker. lucas include post in your price every 4x4 should display this warning
all clubs should give them out after driver awareness etc


Is there any news about that young man who copped a shackle to the head a few months back ???
NSW I think

[threedogs]

I will just Leave this here...................



60550

That is just weird how the heck could it break like that ????

[Hodge]

Have a look at the rust flakes in the tow bar assembly tunnel . Lookskkee rust has been peeling it from the inside greaduallhe weakening it.

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[threedogs]

Have a look at the rust flakes in the tow bar assembly tunnel . Lookskkee rust has been peeling it from the inside greaduallhe weakening it.

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Was trying to figure out how it went, yeah its broken/rusted the 50x50 rhs. could we assume its a boat trailer ??
Its never a good idea to leave the tow hitch in the receiver when not in use, illegal to I think???

Made over 4000 of these probably more a while ago, dont make them anymore

[taslucas]

Death from tow ball sticker. lucas include post in your price every 4x4 should display this warning
all clubs should give them out after driver awareness etc


Is there any news about that young man who copped a shackle to the head a few months back ???
NSW I think
I do them already..... There was a whole thread just on the towball stickers. A couple of years ago now. I'll go digging later

Edit... It started here! Lol, post #70 John. But I think there is another thread specifically for the stickers.

Maybe time to do another run?
tappin from tassie

[4bye4]

I do them already..... There was a whole thread just on the towball stickers. A couple of years ago now. I'll go digging later

Edit... It started here! Lol, post #70 John. But I think there is another thread specifically for the stickers.

Maybe time to do another run?
tappin from tassie

Yes mate started readin at #70 and got over it by a few pages, BUT, and its a big but like mine, I recon its time to bring this up again and with current pricing. I also prefer your sample #4 but start the poll again. I think we could take it to our clubs and mabe get a bulk order going. Perhaps the forum may like to sponsor members. These are only suggestions - I think we should go for it even if we cannot ofset costs.

[threedogs]

Id be very interested in displaying this message.

[King_ady1]

Id be very interested in displaying this message.

Me too. I would even take a couple extra for when bumping into some friends that are like-minded and want one :)

[taslucas]

Ok to get the ball rolling I have started whipping out some of #3. They will be red text (text only) OR red text on white background.

I will work some prices out for digitally printed stickers too. Watch this space.... Or maybe watch for a new thread about stickers only lol

tappin from tassie

[taslucas]

62625

tappin from tassie

[King_ady1]

62625

tappin from tassie

I think #5 is the win for me. Kind of stands out a bit more. Also has that OHS feel to it ;)

[4bye4]

I think #5 is the win for me. Kind of stands out a bit more. Also has that OHS feel to it ;)
Are you allowed to produce somthing that looks OHS but is not "certified". Otherwise I agree looks good. I still like 4 as well.

[taslucas]

Allowed to do whatever you want. They won't be going on as part of a certification process, they are simply stickers which an individual chooses to place on their own personal property.

tappin from tassie

[MudRunnerTD]

I think I still have a few number 5 here Lucas I'd be happy to sell on. I bought a big batch for my club a couple of years ago and still have lots.

[taslucas]

Also, the overall size of the sticker will determine the choice of style.
For example, some people may want a bigger sticker to go on their barn door window which means the lettering will be bigger so styles 2 and 5 will work whereas others may only want a small sticker on the step right above the towball/hitch so style 3 would fit better.

tappin from tassie

[the evil twin]

Are you allowed to produce somthing that looks OHS but is not "certified". Otherwise I agree looks good. I still like 4 as well.


Allowed to do whatever you want. They won't be going on as part of a certification process, they are simply stickers which an individual chooses to place on their own personal property.

tappin from tassie

Good Q 4X but agree with Tas... You can have whatever sticker you wherever you want in whatever format you want (copyright aside).
You can spoof any style, wording or format you wish.

OSH does come into the equation but only if it is a requirement under a Reg or Standard to display a warning or advisory of a particular size or wording in a particular hazard or piece of equipment.

[hi-psi-patrol]

Wow i wouldnt have thought such a thing could happen using a snatch strap with a tow ball,im glad i know now,i think the stickers should be applied from the factory on all 4x4.

[MB]

G'day HPP,

True story below, but we should firstly all thank the proactive NP's team above ! Personal experience, still haunting me, nearly killed a bloke/best old mate at the base of Gatta's Widow back in 90's being a dickhead in youth!

Foolishly, tow ball left my rig, via snatchem at warp speed thankfully missing the windscreen yet returning back via the stretch to wipe out everything in its path !!!

We should all wear warning stickers proud as punch whilst offroad, I can't imagine a court of law anywhere in the country judging otherwise for such due diligence ?

Where do i/we get one Daz ?

Cheers MB

Sent from my iPhone


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[Bloodyaussie]

Taslucas can help you out with stickers Mark...

[MudRunnerTD]

They didn't say but my money is in a Towball failure.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/159.jpg


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[BigRAWesty]

They didn't say but my money is in a Towball failure.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/159.jpg


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Shackle failed and no dampener on the strap..

[MudRunnerTD]

Shackle failed and no dampener on the strap..

Really!!!

A shackle failure is pretty rare! Operator error I reckon! I have seen a shackle fail only once and that was when it was set but they put the pin through and did not do it up...

Have you got a link to a follow up story Krisso? Keen to read it if you do mate.

[PeeBee]

Really!!!

A shackle failure is pretty rare! Operator error I reckon! I have seen a shackle fail only once and that was when it was set but they put the pin through and did not do it up...

Have you got a link to a follow up story Krisso? Keen to read it if you do mate.

Speculating, it could simply have been too small for the load. I have come across guys using shackles you would attach to the emerg chain on a 6x4 trailer heading to the local tip once a year - you know the ones you can buy in a hardware store.

If the shackle was correctly rated, yes, agree, would be very unusual.

[BigRAWesty]

Really!!!

A shackle failure is pretty rare! Operator error I reckon! I have seen a shackle fail only once and that was when it was set but they put the pin through and did not do it up...

Have you got a link to a follow up story Krisso? Keen to read it if you do mate.
Yea thats what ive read on one of the sources.

[the evil twin]

Seen one shackle failure (a rated 3 ton) and IMHO it was because the pin was 'loose'.
We never found the pin and the shackle was more like a "C" than a "U"

Shackles only achieve their rating if the pin is tightened to the appropriate torque and not "finger tight and back a quarter".

I might add that I am also bemused when I see people drive around with rated shackles dangling off their front recovery points were the Shackles are constantly bombarded by rocks or getting smashed into boulders and step ups on the tracks.
Not the way to treat a vital link in a recovery IMHO...

[PeeBee]

Shackles only achieve their rating if the pin is tightened to the appropriate torque and not "finger tight and back a quarter".

ET, I did a quick check on this as I have two crane lifts tomorrow, and have a special class rigger/dogger to supervise the lift and complete the lift plan. Now I understand we are talking pulling a load , not lifting when doing vehicle recovery, but the operation of the shackle remains the same.

Both QLD Worksafe and SA Worksafe both state in their training and certification docs that shackles are to be tightened to 'finger tight then backed off half a turn' to prevent pin jamming. Interestingly, a training document from a UK lift organisation states the pin is to be tightened using a 'small bar thru the hole' of the pin, but does not state a tightening torque.

I can't find anywhere that lists a pin torque required to achieve load rating on a shackle - do you have this in writing you could share? My training has also been in the finger tight then half a turn release, so would be more than keen to know if there is something else I should be doing. Checking with my special class rigger, his training also defines the shackle as finger tight, released half a turn, to counter the effects of a sling rotating and jamming the pin in the shackle body. Under this process the shackle is deemed to be compliant and capable of lifting the intended load, provided it is appropriately rated.

[the evil twin]

Hiya PeeBee

My bad perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "rating" it probably should have been breaking strain...

The following is the gist of some of the documents I have here which admittedly aren't exactly the latest 'cept the Bullivants one:-)

From Bullivants http://www.bullivants.com/FlippingBooks/05Hardware/files/assets/common/downloads/publication.pdf...
The pin is screwed tightly with the collar and the pin is
bedded evenly on the surface of the shackle eye.

From CM Rigging...
-How tight does the pin need to be?
The pin must be tightened hand tight or until pin
head is fully seated against the body of the shackle.
It may be necessary to tighten an additional 1/8 turn
to ensure proper engagement. Do not back the
pin off the body of the shackle.
MOUSE TAIL SHACKLE IF IT REMAINS IN
PLACE FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
THIS WILL PREVENT PIN FROM BACKING OUT

From an internal publication on Rigging Fundamentals (source unknown) for our restraint and anchoring applications...
Shackles shall not be used if the pin cannot be completely seated.
The pin need be only hand tight for lifting.
Use only shackles with screw pin, round pin with cotter should not be used.
Screw pin shackles shall not be used if the pin can roll under load and unscrew

Disclaimer... I don't do Crane Lifts and I am not a Rigger, Doggy or Craney and don't have any issue at all with how any Statutory bodies indicate how equipment is to be used for lifting IE if they say it can be backed off then I have no probs with that.

As I do not have any of the above training or quals I therefore use gear as per the manuf or supplier recommendations/suggestions/practices IE all the screw pin shackles I use in restraining, anchoring or for handling any of my gear are rated, tightened and moused.

[the evil twin]

... should also add that in no way do I 'disagree' with any Riggers or the 'back it off 1/2 a turn' deal for lifting.
Lifting is their world and I bow to their expertise and the practices that are endorsed for those applications.

[PeeBee]

Hiya PeeBee

My bad perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "rating" it probably should have been breaking strain...

The following is the gist of some of the documents I have here which admittedly aren't exactly the latest 'cept the Bullivants one:-)

From Bullivants http://www.bullivants.com/FlippingBooks/05Hardware/files/assets/common/downloads/publication.pdf...
The pin is screwed tightly with the collar and the pin is
bedded evenly on the surface of the shackle eye.

From CM Rigging...
-How tight does the pin need to be?
The pin must be tightened hand tight or until pin
head is fully seated against the body of the shackle.
It may be necessary to tighten an additional 1/8 turn
to ensure proper engagement. Do not back the
pin off the body of the shackle.
MOUSE TAIL SHACKLE IF IT REMAINS IN
PLACE FOR ANY EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
THIS WILL PREVENT PIN FROM BACKING OUT

From an internal publication on Rigging Fundamentals (source unknown) for our restraint and anchoring applications...
Shackles shall not be used if the pin cannot be completely seated.
The pin need be only hand tight for lifting.
Use only shackles with screw pin, round pin with cotter should not be used.
Screw pin shackles shall not be used if the pin can roll under load and unscrew

Disclaimer... I don't do Crane Lifts and I am not a Rigger, Doggy or Craney and don't have any issue at all with how any Statutory bodies indicate how equipment is to be used for lifting IE if they say it can be backed off then I have no probs with that.

As I do not have any of the above training or quals I therefore use gear as per the manuf or supplier recommendations/suggestions/practices IE all the screw pin shackles I use in restraining, anchoring or for handling any of my gear are rated, tightened and moused.

OK, seems there are different recommendations for different industries and countries. I for one will be sticking to the regs applicable in Australia. I think that a shackle that is screwed in to finger tight then backed off half a turn has more than enough bearing area to cater for the intended load. Additionally there is sufficient thread friction and 'binding' of the interfaces to ensure the shackle/pin remains essentially static. On the other hand, if its simply screwed in 'a bit' and not bedded down, then you are asking for trouble. It would pay also to check the condition of the shackled joint periodically during a recovery to ensure that the pin has not migrated from the shackle body. How this could happen is a bit of a mystery to me, but maybe there are circumstances where it could happen.

[the evil twin]

snip... I for one will be sticking to the regs applicable in Australia.

Absolutely agree Cobber.

[MB]

....I might add that I am also bemused when I see people drive around with rated shackles dangling off their front recovery points were the Shackles are constantly bombarded by rocks or getting smashed into boulders and step ups on the tracks. Not the way to treat a vital link in a recovery IMHO...

I'd be guilty recently of this too ET :-( Thankyou as always mate for your awakening advice :-) To be honest it's the first time I've ever done it as a point for new winch hook, quite crazy really now 'I see' and in the shed here as a result of your post reassessing/removing a poor rushed last trip choice made.
72225
Even sillier is that this chosen big hook doesn't need bow shackles to straps regularly so they'll be packed away safely now for when may be mate. Cheers again !

[AB]

And then you get people making their own points which is scary!http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/202.jpg


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[Maxhead]

And then you get people making their own points which is scary!http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/202.jpg


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WTF?????

Those yanks are definetly special







................on the road

[Greytd28]

$50 sounds like a bargain 👌🏻

[Mike02Ti]

Im a certified advanced rigger /dogman. What we are taught as a certified rigger in Australia is to attach a shackle hand tight then back it off 1/4 to half turn. This is done regardless of the size of the shackle. The reason for this was explained by an old rigger with 40 yrs experience who taught me was to stop the threads binding under load and not being able to release the pin at all.
All gear is to be inspected before use obviously. This includes the shackle itself. It should not be warped/ bent or elongated in any way. The pin should be straight and threads in good condition.
It is also good practice for the shackle pins to be moused. To prevent the pin either coming undone or in result of a catastrophic failure bits flying all over the joint.
Yes i have seen them fail but its extremely rare. However i have started to see many eye bolts pop up lately on bull bars and rear bars. No way in hell would i use them. Any kind of side load and they ping off. Even the wide base ones. Think about it.... whats a tow ball shaped like? Looks kinda like an eye bolt without a hole though the guts of it huh.

Like the evil twin said and i agree with him. Its one of my pet hates seeing a couple of 4.7 ton shackles hanging off the recovery points. What are they there for in suburbia? Do you know how much damage it will cause if one come off and slid across the road and got kicked up by a tyre?

Personally i hate D shackles and will never use them. I always use a bow shackle. They are a bit wider to fit your slings on and can disperse the load over a slightly wider area of the shackle itself. D shackle should only be pulled in 1 direction which is straight.

When i first started getting into 4x4 i was appalled by the practices that many people are guilty of. Some have no clue, some have no care to learn and some just dont have common sense or an interest in self preservation.

I would love to know how many people throw their snatch strap in the bin after 4 or 5 recoveries too as that is what is usually recommended from what i have read.



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[Clunk]

And then you get people making their own points which is scary!http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/06/202.jpg


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What a brilliant idea

[tirukaly]

Oh my god...

[bazzaboy]

What about those "Recovery Hitch tongue with shackle" type things that go into where your tow ball tongue goes and uses the pin to hold it in place? are these just as dangerous? Is it the "Pin" that is letting go or or ball snapping off the tongue?

A steel "pin" of that size/diameter & length is incredibly strong. The real danger is in using the ball as the connection, as they are not designed as a "shock point".

[Grant209]

Hi all,

Just north of Penrith here in Western Sydney, we have a area know as The Drop Zone, a RAAF Cargo Air Drop Training Area that is well know for unauthorised use by 4WD'ers and Trail Bike Rides. There is a local 4WD Assistance Facebook page where 4WD'ers can request assistance, there are usually several request each week for assistance at various areas around Sydney, and usually 1 or 2 request each month for the Drop Zone.

The last serious incident I know off at the Drop Zone was back in 2018 I think, when we had a young fella hit with the Tow Ball while recovering a bogged vehicle, I can't recall what his outcome was, but know a it was a large response from Emergency Services including the CareFlight Rescue Helicopter for him, but on the night it was stated the Tow Ball was the culprit.

There are heaps of YouTube video's showing the bad outcomes of using tow balls, most by people who have no idea just how unsafe it is. In my 16 years or so Covering Off-road Racing as a Recovery Team Member or 4WD Challange Events as a Event Medic, most of the incidents I have seen, has been the failure of poor engineered recovery points, old equipment . . . or inferior equipment . . . . not many incidents are from incorrect use of equipment, but at these Event's the Event Staff and participants are very Safety Aware and proactive . . .

I consider myself somewhat lucky, I spent 9 years in the Army Reserves driving M113 APC's and Land Rovers, consider myself to have been well trained in 4WD and Recovery Operations and have a very health respect for recovery equipment. I have run a number of Remote Area First Aid Courses with 4WD Clubs, and it's not that uncommon to come across people who don't know a Tow Ball is unsafe as a Tow Point in recoveries.

I believe those who are seriously injured or killed by flying tow ball are those who are new to 4WD'ing, or who really don't know any better, thinking if the Tow Ball can tow a heavy Trailer or Caravan, then it should be fine to tow a car out of a bog. In a couple of attempted recoveries I have come across, most of those who are doing things unsafely, generally have no idea.

Someone in the first couple of reply post of this thread, asked where 4x4 Victoria got their Statistics from. All vehicle incidents that Cause Serious Injuries or Fatal become a Police Matter, doesn't have to be on a Public Road, and due to Police involvement it become a recordable statistics.

[mudnut]

This guy constantly uses towballs to snatch with. Look around the six minute mark. He has different sizes for recovery of customers trailers fitted on the bar. Maybe they're super hardened? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPNHINEDyU

[threedogs]

This guy constantly uses towballs to snatch with. Look around the six minute mark. He has different sizes for recovery of customers trailers fitted on the bar. Maybe they're super hardened? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVPNHINEDyU

I think hes old school with very bad habits,
Its worked once why wouldnt it work twice.
Everyone one should regard recovery points , straps
and older winch cable as throw away items. They were
never meant to last forever regarless of how good you look after them.

Story I heard a few years ago two mates retired about the same time
kitted up for the big LAP. Two new Landcruiers fully kitted what could go wrong.
Up north on a secondary track one gets bogged , you see whats coming eh.
Out with the strap , over the tow ball low two and off we go. Ball snaps off
through the windscreen ,driver ,head rest , back window and inbeds in a tree.
A simple 4x4 course would have made that a trouble free recovery and a great lap
NEVER USE A TOWBALL EVER

[BillsGU]

This idiot is supposed to be a professional! This is what he does for a living. He'll tell you he's done hundreds of these and never had a problem - until he does.

All he really had to do was let a bit of air out of the tyres and he could have easily driven it out.

[mudnut]

This idiot is supposed to be a professional! This is what he does for a living. He'll tell you he's done hundreds of these and never had a problem - until he does.

All he really had to do was let a bit of air out of the tyres and he could have easily driven it out.

I end up screaming at the screen, "Let Ya Bloody Tyres Down A Bit!"

[Plasnart]

Don't think I've ever seen a more ridiculous or unnecessary recovery. That vehicle could have been driven out with minimal effort. Joke.

[mudnut]

I was cringing with this recovery. The forces exerted on those towballs must've been extreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH4wnjfbK2s

[MudRunnerTD]

I was cringing with this recovery. The forces exerted on those towballs must've been extreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH4wnjfbK2s

his is an interesting setup that is for sure. Cringe worthy certainly. That is the second one of his i have watched and he used the same recovery tongue. the fact that it has a tow ball involved is hideous but in this particular instance im not sure he is in the same danger that we are familiar with.

In both videos he places the strap over the top of the top ball and then behind Both side balls. This is a very very different setup to what we know here. I am not smart enough to consider the tensile force involved here but logically the force is being pulled down through the square tube and behind the 2 side balls..... I hate it but not sure it is dangerous. it is almost a half hitch knot over the top. But i hate it.

What i particularly hate though is the sight of a ball in this video at all. It really does lend the watcher to believe that a single ball is a viable recovery device. I would be interested to read what the evil twin has to say here actually

[mudnut]

They actually use the towball on this recovery. Lucky the stuck jeep owner had his handbrake off at 12:50 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekEtKeXrjvI

After watching this, I sent him an email containing the image of the Landcruiser tailgate.

[mudnut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7STkTpTjDCU

[mudnut]

The guy in the previous videos talks about recoveries using his tow balls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcv2wy5RKeI

[BillsGU]

Sorry. He still doesn't convince me. How hard would it be to have a proper connector that fits into the receiver. Or do what I normally do - don't use fittings at all - just put the end of the strap in the receiver and put the pin through the holes and through the strap loop. The fewer bits and pieces you have in a recovery means there are less bits to break.

As a "professional" he should be setting a better example.

[PeeBee]

I am not advocating use of a towball as a hitch point where the towball is anchored with a thread into a receiver. This type of setup puts rise to potential failure of the treaded element from shear and/or shear and a bending moment as the line of action is raised to the thinner section of the towball. Most towballs have an undercut at the base of the thread where it matches the 50mm head, and this becomes the stress riser, especially as depth of undercut, radius size and surface roughness are unknown.

Additionally we have no idea what the towballs are manufactured from, could be recycled chinese bicycle seats - my towball is from a HT 4140 steel, but I would think a lot are made from a far lower grade.

What I would say is that his towball setup looks like its got 3 different sized balls, welded to a solid receiver bar, and fixed to the front of the towbar hitch using a standard 16mm pin. I would say, his weakest point in all this is either the 16mm pin in a double shear loading or the strap itself. The welded towballs are essentially 50mm pegs and the stress is going thru 3 circumferential welds into the solid hitch. The loading diagram for his hitch is not straight forward to determine actual stresses, however it is possible to get this analyzed using a Strand Stress Analysis package for certainty as it takes away the interpretation of the engineer. We don't know the materials, weld detail, weld procedure or welder certification, NDT taken place etc - there is a lot missing in this picture.

So, is the setup any weaker than using a slot in hitch on our standard towball set-up - I doubt it as ultimately the pin is the weakest element. Even if the receiver was a tube, worst case a thin walled tube, its 'probably' still going to fail on the tow strap rather than the hitch - thats my analysis anyway. On the surface it probably looks worse than it is. Whilst the guy using it claims to assess the loading conditions of the recovery - had to laugh at the h/d ear ring he pulled out for use though - and he does execute his recovery operations in seemingly the worst way, I think he is no worse off than what we do when we use a standard hitch and 16mm pin.

Final parting comment, Don't use a snatch strap on a towball for recovery.

[mudnut]

I applaud him for helping those in need as his paid job, but he does use towballs on some of the recovered vehicles after a rudimentary look around it. Unfortunately it just takes one out of a hundred to go wrong. Other people watch his videos and think it's OK to follow his example.

[MudRunnerTD]

I applaud him for helping those in need as his paid job, but he does use towballs on some of the recovered vehicles after a rudimentary look around it. Unfortunately it just takes one out of a hundred to go wrong. Other people watch his videos and think it's OK to follow his example.

That right there is the biggest problem. The Professional providing the example to the Pleb. The Pleb cant tell the difference here and will make the Fatal decisions and the Coroner wont care that the Professional provided a Bad Example.

[MudRunnerTD]

I am not advocating use of a towball as a hitch point where the towball is anchored with a thread into a receiver. This type of setup puts rise to potential failure of the treaded element from shear and/or shear and a bending moment as the line of action is raised to the thinner section of the towball. Most towballs have an undercut at the base of the thread where it matches the 50mm head, and this becomes the stress riser, especially as depth of undercut, radius size and surface roughness are unknown.

Additionally we have no idea what the towballs are manufactured from, could be recycled chinese bicycle seats - my towball is from a HT 4140 steel, but I would think a lot are made from a far lower grade.

What I would say is that his towball setup looks like its got 3 different sized balls, welded to a solid receiver bar, and fixed to the front of the towbar hitch using a standard 16mm pin. I would say, his weakest point in all this is either the 16mm pin in a double shear loading or the strap itself. The welded towballs are essentially 50mm pegs and the stress is going thru 3 circumferential welds into the solid hitch. The loading diagram for his hitch is not straight forward to determine actual stresses, however it is possible to get this analyzed using a Strand Stress Analysis package for certainty as it takes away the interpretation of the engineer. We don't know the materials, weld detail, weld procedure or welder certification, NDT taken place etc - there is a lot missing in this picture.

So, is the setup any weaker than using a slot in hitch on our standard towball set-up - I doubt it as ultimately the pin is the weakest element. Even if the receiver was a tube, worst case a thin walled tube, its 'probably' still going to fail on the tow strap rather than the hitch - thats my analysis anyway. On the surface it probably looks worse than it is. Whilst the guy using it claims to assess the loading conditions of the recovery - had to laugh at the h/d ear ring he pulled out for use though - and he does execute his recovery operations in seemingly the worst way, I think he is no worse off than what we do when we use a standard hitch and 16mm pin.

Final parting comment, Don't use a snatch strap on a towball for recovery.

Kinda what i said above but with Bigger words and More brain cells.... ^^^^What He Said ^^^^

[Rossco]

I think if your publishing something to a worldwide audience and its your profession it's a no brainer really. His three ball thingy maybe OK but have seen him on many occasions hooking up to tow balls of vehicles to be recovered, not just on ice with no resistance as he says in Mad Mats vid but giving big American trucks a good yank (no pum intended lol) . .

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Big Gags]

I finally got my winch fitted up a few weeks ago after it sat in the shed for 3 months or so (although now we are in lockdown and so my only "recovery" so far has been to winch my son in from the driveway across the street so that I at least had some tension on the drum!! I am ex-army and have been involved in engineering numerous vehicles with self-recovery winches and also dedicated Recovery Vehicles. Army has a whole trade stream (Recovery Mechanics AKA Recce Mechs) who's job is to recover vehicles whether they be bogged, battle damaged, or have a malfunction. Army has a Recovery Mechanics Handbook that is basically their bible for recovery and it's actually got some really good guidance in it. Army does not do dynamic recovery using snatch straps but instead uses winches to conduct controlled recoveries. When planning a recovery the Recce Mechs calculate the total pull required which is dictated by a number of things.

The first one is the Ground Type and depending on the type of ground you get a number to divide the vehicle weight by. From memory for hard ground it's a factor of 25 and for mud (bogged to the floorpan) it's a factor of 1. So you take the mass of the vehicle and divide it by the Ground Factor. For example a 10 tonne vehicle would have a Ground Factor of 500 kg for hard ground and 10 tonne for mud bogged to the axles.

Then there is a damage factor. There are various factors depending on the extent of the damage. From memory there is a factor added for each seized wheel which I think for 10 tonne vehicle is 500 kg per wheel. For example's sake let's say that one axle is locked due to a busted diff so the damage factor is 1000 kg.

Finally there's a gradient factor which is vehicle mass x angle of slope (degrees) / 60 and so for say a 15 degree estimated slope the gradient factor for a 10 tonne vehicle is 2.5 tonne.

So total pull in this example is 10 + 1 + 2.5 = 13.5 tonne

However, there is then a 25% safety factor added and so the total pull required is 13.5 x 1.25 = 16.875 tonne but they round it up to the closest tonne so in this recovery a 17 tonne pull is required.

Then they workout the recovery layout. Let's say they had a 10 tonne winch and so they decide to do a 2:1 recovery. Again I remember this because I have dealt with it a few times (although I was not a Recce Mech) but due to the inefficiencies of the tackle a 2:1 recovery actually only gives you 1.8:1 which in this case meets the requirement.

The dedicated recovery vehicles carry suitably rated chains, sheaves (snatch blocks), and bow shackles to setup the recovery. Initial light tension is applied (once tension is applied, nobody is allowed to step over a recovery rope and at no time is anybody allowed to stand in the "V" formed by a 2:1 recovery) and then all recovery attachments are physically checked by the Operator. The Operator is behind a protective screen and a danger exclusion zone is cleared for 1.5 times the distance between the two vehicles and only after all this is in place can they start winching.

So what are my lessons learnt from this experience (and the ones I will apply when using my winch in anger):

- Always try to do 2:1 recovery where possible to reduce the tension on the winch and the rope (and put up with it being half as fast as a single pull)
- Always determine what the weakest point in the recovery layout is and make sure it's strong enough!!
- Always use rated bow shackles and rated recovery points
- Always use an equalisation bridle and use both recovery points on the front of the vehicle for every recovery
- Always use a damper on the rope in case it does snap
- Keep everybody else well away from the recovery activity
- Check everything at least twice (once after applying initial tension)
- Only use a snatch strap as a last resort and if needed then use minimum recovery speed and rated recovery points
- Never, ever use a towbar for any recovery activity!!!

Once we are allowed out I think I will go out for a familiarisation session and do a couple of winch pulls just to familiarise myself with everything and make sure that everything works OK.....looking forward to it!!

[PeeBee]

Excellent content, thanks very much.

[mudnut]

Army does not do dynamic recovery using snatch straps but instead uses winches to conduct controlled recoveries.

I am hearing that sort of statement more and more. Some Youtube presenters dealing with 4wds, advocate not using snatch straps at all, or only as a last resort.

Thank you for all that knowledge, Big Gags.

[BillsGU]

The British Army use snatch straps – but only on armoured vehicles. The rules are everyone inside the vehicles and all hatches shut before the snatch is attempted. Because they are heavy vehicles they use seriously large straps – but it is quick and safe if procedures are followed.

[Big Gags]

The British Army use snatch straps – but only on armoured vehicles. The rules are everyone inside the vehicles and all hatches shut before the snatch is attempted. Because they are heavy vehicles they use seriously large straps – but it is quick and safe if procedures are followed.

Funnily enough I am currently working as a contractor on an Armoured vehicle program. Towing and Recovery Points for armoured vehicles in Australia need to meet a DEF(AUST) standard but that refers to the STANAG 4478 standard and this is no doubt what the UK vehicle recovery points would meet. The STANAG needs each individual tiedown/lifting/recovery point to be strong enough to withstand a force of 1.5 x GVM in the vertical direction (for lifting and for lift-tow) and also in a 22.5 degree cone around a line drawn parallel to the vehicle axis. So each individual point can withstand 1.5 x GVM and when you have for example a 40 tonne armoured vehicle it means that each point is rated for 60 tonne!!! There are also specific clearance angles around the points and specific dimensions of the points (to ensure that the suitably sized A-Frames and tiedown/lifting equipment can be used!!

[MudRunnerTD]

I finally got my winch fitted up a few weeks ago after it sat in the shed for 3 months or so (although now we are in lockdown and so my only "recovery" so far has been to winch my son in from the driveway across the street so that I at least had some tension on the drum!! I am ex-army and have been involved in engineering numerous vehicles with self-recovery winches and also dedicated Recovery Vehicles. Army has a whole trade stream (Recovery Mechanics AKA Recce Mechs) who's job is to recover vehicles whether they be bogged, battle damaged, or have a malfunction. Army has a Recovery Mechanics Handbook that is basically their bible for recovery and it's actually got some really good guidance in it. Army does not do dynamic recovery using snatch straps but instead uses winches to conduct controlled recoveries. When planning a recovery the Recce Mechs calculate the total pull required which is dictated by a number of things.

The first one is the Ground Type and depending on the type of ground you get a number to divide the vehicle weight by. From memory for hard ground it's a factor of 25 and for mud (bogged to the floorpan) it's a factor of 1. So you take the mass of the vehicle and divide it by the Ground Factor. For example a 10 tonne vehicle would have a Ground Factor of 500 kg for hard ground and 10 tonne for mud bogged to the axles.

Then there is a damage factor. There are various factors depending on the extent of the damage. From memory there is a factor added for each seized wheel which I think for 10 tonne vehicle is 500 kg per wheel. For example's sake let's say that one axle is locked due to a busted diff so the damage factor is 1000 kg.

Finally there's a gradient factor which is vehicle mass x angle of slope (degrees) / 60 and so for say a 15 degree estimated slope the gradient factor for a 10 tonne vehicle is 2.5 tonne.

So total pull in this example is 10 + 1 + 2.5 = 13.5 tonne

However, there is then a 25% safety factor added and so the total pull required is 13.5 x 1.25 = 16.875 tonne but they round it up to the closest tonne so in this recovery a 17 tonne pull is required.

Then they workout the recovery layout. Let's say they had a 10 tonne winch and so they decide to do a 2:1 recovery. Again I remember this because I have dealt with it a few times (although I was not a Recce Mech) but due to the inefficiencies of the tackle a 2:1 recovery actually only gives you 1.8:1 which in this case meets the requirement.

The dedicated recovery vehicles carry suitably rated chains, sheaves (snatch blocks), and bow shackles to setup the recovery. Initial light tension is applied (once tension is applied, nobody is allowed to step over a recovery rope and at no time is anybody allowed to stand in the "V" formed by a 2:1 recovery) and then all recovery attachments are physically checked by the Operator. The Operator is behind a protective screen and a danger exclusion zone is cleared for 1.5 times the distance between the two vehicles and only after all this is in place can they start winching.

So what are my lessons learnt from this experience (and the ones I will apply when using my winch in anger):

- Always try to do 2:1 recovery where possible to reduce the tension on the winch and the rope (and put up with it being half as fast as a single pull)
- Always determine what the weakest point in the recovery layout is and make sure it's strong enough!!
- Always use rated bow shackles and rated recovery points
- Always use an equalisation bridle and use both recovery points on the front of the vehicle for every recovery
- Always use a damper on the rope in case it does snap
- Keep everybody else well away from the recovery activity
- Check everything at least twice (once after applying initial tension)
- Only use a snatch strap as a last resort and if needed then use minimum recovery speed and rated recovery points
- Never, ever use a towbar for any recovery activity!!!

Once we are allowed out I think I will go out for a familiarisation session and do a couple of winch pulls just to familiarise myself with everything and make sure that everything works OK.....looking forward to it!!

Hi mate, thanks for your input.

Have a look at this thread also as the first section provides some good references for your average 4wdriver relating to some of the math you have applied above.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?1984-Recovery-The-Fundamentals

[mudnut]

I did try sending an Email, with a picture of the Yota tailgate, but I don't think it my Email is working. Anyone want to reply to him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exlh8H4eH-0

[Grant209]

I am ex-army and have been involved in engineering numerous vehicles with self-recovery winches and also dedicated Recovery Vehicles. Army has a whole trade stream (Recovery Mechanics AKA Recce Mechs) who's job is to recover vehicles whether they be bogged, battle damaged, or have a malfunction. Army has a Recovery Mechanics Handbook that is basically their bible for recovery and it's actually got some really good guidance in it. Army does not do dynamic recovery using snatch straps but instead uses winches to conduct controlled recoveries. When planning a recovery the Recce Mechs calculate the total pull required which is dictated by a number of things.

lol . . . spent 9 years as a ARes Armoured Corps . . . then 5 Years in RAAF Reserves as a Firefighter . . .

Did my 'A' Vehicle M113 Drivers Course in 1988, and then my 'B' Vehicle Light Drivers Course in 1989, my 'B' Vehicle Medium Ridged in 1990. The 'B' Vehicle Course to this day, I would have to say has been my 4WD'ing Base knowledge, and for every 5hrs of driving . . . we would had done 1hr of Recovery Operations . . . Tirfor Hand winch, hydrophilic winch, 12/24v electric winch's . . . from mud, sand, creeks, rivers, hills, tank traps, ditches, tree bridge mishaps, side slope recoveries, side roll recovery, vehicle stabilisation etc etc.

Between the 'A' and 'B' vehicles . . . it taught me to respect the capability of my vehicle, look, gauge, find another way, winching is better then braking, as field repairs are a bitch.

The training was next to none, got very dirty, had great fun, and walked away with skills which I still use in my own 4WD activities, in my Firefighting Employment, and in My Medic Rescue Roles, even passing them onto my 21 yr old Son who did his 1st 4WD Winch Recovery this year.

[Big Gags]

Nice one Grant - if you're in Penrith then I'm guessing you did your Chocco time at Kingswood? I was there for 3 months in 1991 at 133 Sig Sqn as a part of my first year of OJT as an Electronic Technician - nice spot!!

[Grant209]

Nice one Grant - if you're in Penrith then I'm guessing you did your Chocco time at Kingswood? I was there for 3 months in 1991 at 133 Sig Sqn as a part of my first year of OJT as an Electronic Technician - nice spot!!

Big Gags Na Mate, by the time I moved to Sydney in 1997 . . . Kingswood had closed down over the period of 1993-94. The only Military facilities left in the Penrith region when I moved up from the South was 1 CAMD at Orchard Hills and 5 Combat Engineers in North Penrith.

Units I seved with were:
5 Years - 8/13th VMR - 4/19th PWLH Albury Wodonga.
1 Year - 5th Combat Engineers North Penrith.
3 Years - 1/15th RNSWL Parramatta/Holsworthy.
5 Years - 22 Sqn City Sydney RAAF Active Reserves - Firefighter - Richmond RAAF Base Fire Section.

My Recruit Course was with 3MD Training Packa, Sig/Gunnery Course was done in house with 8/13th in Wangaratta Vic, My M113 Drivers Course was conducted with 3/9SAMR at El Alamein Port Port Augusta SA, my 'B' Vehicle Course was done in house with 8/13th in Albury, mostly throughout North East Victoria.

[MudRunnerTD]

It is a Sad Day. 15 year old girl dies when struck by a snapped snatch strap.

Stand clear and clear the safety zone.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2020/09/147.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2020/09/148.jpg

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

[MudRunnerTD]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2020/09/155.jpg

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

[mudnut]

Absolutely devastating for those involved and their families and friends.