old paint lifting during respray

[Alitis007]

Thanks Alitis007. So I need to get an Epoxy hifill as well then (by hifill do you mean primer filler?) as my current primer says epoxy on it....

Sorry for the late reply mate, but yes Hifill is primer filler. I'll have a look at what i have when i go back to work and i'll tell you what it says on the container, when i go to the paint shop i just ask for 2pac ( i think it may be epoxy but i'll let you know) you will also need hardener and 2pac thinners, a few mixing sticks and mixing cups with the ratios and measurements on the side, like this
ImageUploadedByMotorculture1373163418.476488.jpg

But like i said i'll get back to you when i suss out what i have....

[gu8 patrol]

you can put acrylic paint on 2 pac you just need to apply isolator first which will eliminate any flashing or peeling.

[04OFF]

Not sure about a Acrylic paint job absorbing water causing good panels to rust ?, a good Acrylic paint job should last years in the weather without causing rust.

This is my torrie, this Acrylic paint job was about 10 years old at the time of the video, it sat out in the weather heaps, hardly ever got polished, and red is the worst colour to have outside.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBZycNtX9zY



Now just Acrylic "primer" WILL definaitly absorb moisture, and this is why you should NOT drive a car around in primer as a lot of people do (some 2pac primer is OK)

even tho Acrylic is stronger then 2pac once it has cured.

I think you mean the other way around ? (2pac is way stronger than Acrylic.)

you can put acrylic paint on 2 pac you just need to apply isolator first which will eliminate any flashing or peeling.

Agree, Acrylic over 2pac is no problem, "if", your Acrylic paint is old enough (so has done all the moving around and bleeding of thinners it will do ,this can take years) you can get away with painting 2pac over it.

[flashman1207]

OK guys, job finished. Got some Isolator, jeez wish I knew about this stuff before I started, would have saved me days of work. Anyways, as I said before, wasn't able to feather the paint as it just kept coming away so sanding back as much as I could, then 3 coats of isolator, sanding back the 'high' side after each coat. 3 coats of primer (sand again). 4 or 5 coats of top coat. Looks pretty good. You can still wear it wasn't fully sanded back in places but by the time i've cut in and polished it I don't think you would notice. Its not a show car and spends most of its life grimey so not fussed......

Thanks to all

PS I 'cut' the rest of the car as well. Jesus, what a difference. Looks brand new..... well.... sorta

[mick.]

Damn damn damn. Just finished fixing up the gutters and roof line of the GQ but had a small spot on the roof that needed sanding back and painting. Well, the old paint is just crap, thin and just comes away with a scrape of the finger. So sanding and feathering is impossible. I would just spray it but problem is that the old paint just lifts away around the edge when I spray primer or new paint on it. Its obviously been resprayed in the past and the paint did not stick well at all so any new paint is going under it and lifting it. Causes like a jagged raised edge. Looks shit. I kept sanding back looking for some decent old paint but the hole is now about 200mm x 200mm and there is no sign of the crap paint stopping. Can't afford a full respray (specially as I just fixes up the gutters and roof edge so well). Anyone got any idea how I can stop the old paint lifting ?

Thx
Flash

By the sounds of it you didn't want to spend a lot of money. I'll put this up for future reference for anyone wanting to dodge up some flaky paint. lol

If you want to do it properly then paint striping, etching and a 2 pack primer is your best bet prior to repainting as mentioned above. However if you don't want to strip the roof back to bare metal and can get it feathered out a little bit you can use a 2 pack sealer such as PPGs Scan sealer (similar to the isolator your referring to) which will hold down any lifting paint around the edges. Now this is not a total cure but if you just want to hold the edges down this will do it. I've used this on heaps of old bombs that people just wanted one colour all over for rego or to sell off with a cheap respray.

Just to clear a couple of things up both acrylic and 2 pack primers, hyfills, spray polyesters etc are all porous meaning they all absorb water it's just some such as acrylic and polyesters absorb it quicker then 2 pack primers.

Only top coats work like a sealer and don't absorb water and this goes for acrylic and 2 pack.

I would personally paint strip the roof and do it properly but yes it can be dodged up with a scan sealer if you don't want to go all the way.

Alitis007 who told you there is water in acrylic paint which makes it porous? I was an automotive Technical paint rep before I got out of the game and I know the ins and out of paint pretty well and that's a new one on me. lol All primers are pretty much porous but the only ones that have water content and it's very very small is waterbourne primers and bases. I'm not saying it's not totally true but I would have thought in all the training I've done over the years I would have heard this somewhere myself by now.

You can also put acrylic over 2 pack enamel but you cant put (not supposed) to put 2 pack over acrylic but you can. lol Air dry enamel will go over anything.

In fact a lot of old school painters will use a 2 pack primer and then respray with acrylic. I personally wouldn't but it's done pretty often.

Cheers Mick

[Alitis007]

By the sounds of it you didn't want to spend a lot of money. I'll put this up for future reference for anyone wanting to dodge up some flaky paint. lol

If you want to do it properly then paint striping, etching and a 2 pack primer is your best bet prior to repainting as mentioned above. However if you don't want to strip the roof back to bare metal and can get it feathered out a little bit you can use a 2 pack sealer such as PPGs Scan sealer (similar to the isolator your referring to) which will hold down any lifting paint around the edges. Now this is not a total cure but if you just want to hold the edges down this will do it. I've used this on heaps of old bombs that people just wanted one colour all over for rego or to sell off with a cheap respray.

Just to clear a couple of things up both acrylic and 2 pack primers, hyfills, spray polyesters etc are all porous meaning they all absorb water it's just some such as acrylic and polyesters absorb it quicker then 2 pack primers.

Only top coats work like a sealer and don't absorb water and this goes for acrylic and 2 pack.

I would personally paint strip the roof and do it properly but yes it can be dodged up with a scan sealer if you don't want to go all the way.

Alitis007 who told you there is water in acrylic paint which makes it porous? I was an automotive Technical paint rep before I got out of the game and I know the ins and out of paint pretty well and that's a new one on me. lol All primers are pretty much porous but the only ones that have water content and it's very very small is waterbourne primers and bases. I'm not saying it's not totally true but I would have thought in all the training I've done over the years I would have heard this somewhere myself by now.

You can also put acrylic over 2 pack enamel but you cant put (not supposed) to put 2 pack over acrylic but you can. lol Air dry enamel will go over anything.

In fact a lot of old school painters will use a 2 pack primer and then respray with acrylic. I personally wouldn't but it's done pretty often.

Cheers Mick

What i was told about Acrylic paint was from an old panel beater that my dad used to know but come to think about it he might have been an unreliable source TBH, he called himself the panel king hahaha but he used to cut out rust and replace it with news paper and chicken wire with a skim of fibre glass and bog........

Happy to be corrected about acrylic coz i only play with 2k refinishers.

[mick.]

I've been using 2 packs for years in medium solid, high solid and Ultra High Solid plus most water based products on the market but I've had very little to do with acrylic. I'd say there are a lot of back yarders on here that have more experience then me with it. I don't thinks its correct though as I'm sure at some stage with the amount of crap they teach you as an apprentice at Tafe and the training I had to be a Technical paint rep they would have mentioned this. The reason being as most of the stuff they teach at Tafe is useless in the real world so that's where you would here it. lol

Most of the useful info is taught by good tradesmen more then anything. The guy you mentioned above doesn't sound like someone I would hire. lol

Cheers Mick

[Alitis007]

I've been using 2 packs for years in medium solid, high solid and Ultra High Solid plus most water based products on the market but I've had very little to do with acrylic. I'd say there are a lot of back yarders on here that have more experience then me with it. I don't thinks its correct though as I'm sure at some stage with the amount of crap they teach you as an apprentice at Tafe and the training I had to be a Technical paint rep they would have mentioned this. The reason being as most of the stuff they teach at Tafe is useless in the real world so that's where you would here it. lol

Most of the useful info is taught by good tradesmen more then anything. The guy you mentioned above doesn't sound like someone I would hire. lol

Cheers Mick

Alot of backyarders do use acrylic so they get a better orange peel without having to use an oven. At the time i was told about the water in acrylic it made sense coz of the cars i had seen with water marks that couldn't be removed with polish and most of the cars had crows feet.

I agree trade school is bollocks, its only good for talking trash and the week holiday every 6 weeks lol. Saying that, i am a qualified mechanic but i did my 4 year apprenticeship in a year and a half, 300hrs ahead of the proposed schedule and 6 of those months i did nothing but play cards lol untill they threatened to make me re do all my modules hahaha!

Don't worry about that bloke mate, he's locked up now for assaulting a would be thief that he caught trying to break into his car, which he beat within an inch of his life lol ( not funny, i know but you have to laugh )

I now get my info about 2k from my cousin who is a sort after spray painter around my area who tells me how, what and why i need to do things to get the correct result!

[flashman1207]

By the sounds of it you didn't want to spend a lot of money. I'll put this up for future reference for anyone wanting to dodge up some flaky paint. lol


Cheers Mick

Right there Mick, I wanna fit a turbo and am just about to go on hols so money is tight..... Not too mention the bigger tyres etc I want. And the wife wants a new car... etc etc etc

Anyways, the job has come up good... bloody good actually. I will update the thread with how the paint holds out. Would it be worth putting a clear coat on? If so, should I cut it back first or wet and dry before spraying?

If I could just keep the roof rack off I'm sure it would last better..... Got one of them Oztents though, don't fit inside the truck

[mick.]

If it's a solid colour such as white I wouldn't really bother if your trying to keep the costs now and the wife happy. lol

Cheers Mick