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Thread: Manual Boost-Use of Two parallel needle valves with solenoid bleed control-Thought?

  1. #1
    Patrol Freak Bidja's Avatar
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    Manual Boost-Use of Two parallel needle valves with solenoid bleed control-Thought?

    Thinking out loud - Manual Boost using two needle valves in parallel with elec solenoid bleed control

    08 GU Manual CRD, Full NADS (EGR block “solid plate”), TIG I/C, 3" Pipe, snorkel, stock turbo & air box.

    ECU Remap (ECPT tune spec - max Boost 20-22psi/AFR 22:1)

    Manual boost control (single Dawes/needle). Current max boost of 21psi with cruise boost 17-18psi.

    Prefer to have the ability to independently access either of three separate pre-set spool rates while retaining the same max boost (via a single Dawes) of 21-22psi for all the three pre-set spool rates. This should provide the AFR (22:1) when either of the three pre-set spool rates are used.

    From using manual boost control with remapped ECU and adjusting needle on the fly, I have found three different spool rates sets that meet my requirement:

    Sweet Spot – Currently set: max boost 21psi with cruise boost 17-18 psi (preferred needle sweet spot with good spool rate/pwr responce). Needle open 1.3 turns
    Max Spool – With needle fully closed, max spool rate max boost 21-22psi
    Hwy Eco - out on open roads (hwy easy cruise), run cruise boost of 14psi but maintain max B 21psi (laggy but provide economical fuel usage and does not work the turbo consistently at higher speeds). Needle open 2-2.5 turns

    Propose to use:
    Only one Dawes for max boost (currently 21psi).
    Two needle valves and each having a vac bleed inline 2 port N/C elec solenoid controlled by a SPDT toggle switch.
    Both needle/solenoid valve sets be installed in parallel but be operated independently of each other.
    Hook up SPDT toggle switch (dash mount) to independently select either of the three different spool rates on the fly.

    The switch in the:
    • up position (ON) will provide Sweet Spot (this needle solenoid open only)
    • mid position (OFF) will provide Max Spool (both solenoids closed)
    • down position (ON) will provide Hwy Eco (this needle solenoid open only)

    Have seen the 2 stage Dawes set up but thought this method of manual boost control may be a good option.

    Welcome comments and advice.
    2008 GU WAG ST Manual CRD - To do the job

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  3. #2
    The master farter mudski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidja View Post
    Thinking out loud - Manual Boost using two needle valves in parallel with elec solenoid bleed control

    08 GU Manual CRD, Full NADS (EGR block “solid plate”), TIG I/C, 3" Pipe, snorkel, stock turbo & air box.

    ECU Remap (ECPT tune spec - max Boost 20-22psi/AFR 22:1)

    Manual boost control (single Dawes/needle). Current max boost of 21psi with cruise boost 17-18psi.

    Prefer to have the ability to independently access either of three separate pre-set spool rates while retaining the same max boost (via a single Dawes) of 21-22psi for all the three pre-set spool rates. This should provide the AFR (22:1) when either of the three pre-set spool rates are used.

    From using manual boost control with remapped ECU and adjusting needle on the fly, I have found three different spool rates sets that meet my requirement:

    Sweet Spot – Currently set: max boost 21psi with cruise boost 17-18 psi (preferred needle sweet spot with good spool rate/pwr responce). Needle open 1.3 turns
    Max Spool – With needle fully closed, max spool rate max boost 21-22psi
    Hwy Eco - out on open roads (hwy easy cruise), run cruise boost of 14psi but maintain max B 21psi (laggy but provide economical fuel usage and does not work the turbo consistently at higher speeds). Needle open 2-2.5 turns

    Propose to use:
    Only one Dawes for max boost (currently 21psi).
    Two needle valves and each having a vac bleed inline 2 port N/C elec solenoid controlled by a SPDT toggle switch.
    Both needle/solenoid valve sets be installed in parallel but be operated independently of each other.
    Hook up SPDT toggle switch (dash mount) to independently select either of the three different spool rates on the fly.

    The switch in the:
    •up position (ON) will provide Sweet Spot (this needle solenoid open only)
    •mid position (OFF) will provide Max Spool (both solenoids closed)
    •down position (ON) will provide Hwy Eco (this needle solenoid open only)

    Have seen the 2 stage Dawes set up but thought this method of manual boost control may be a good option.

    Welcome comments and advice.
    I can't see the advantage of having multiple spool up rates. Having a slower spool up that what its ideally set at will only cause higher etgs and poor performance.
    And having faster could bring on limp mode.
    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mudski; 8th January 2018 at 09:15 PM.

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    Patrol Freak Bidja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudski View Post
    I can't see the advantage of having multiple spool up rates. Having a slower spool up that what its ideally set at will only cause higher etgs and poor performance.
    And having faster could bring on limp mode.
    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
    With ECU remap, best run Sweet Spot is Max Boost 21 psi with cruise boost of 18 psi (slight load at 100 km/hr). Any lower cruise boost, the performance is poor(laggy), With any increase of load above 45% (a slight incline) boost will run at 20psi. Provides for a good run. My main concern is when out on open roads and running high cruise boost and working the turbo at higher speeds for sustained time periods.

    It is when I am out on open hwy or say on the Hay Plains (lazily cruising along), rather run a cruise boost of 13-14 psi (EGTs do remain OK). When EGTs start rising or require greater pwr response, the higher spool rate/cruise boost needle would be selected.

    Have the needle in the cab and do adjust on the fly. When running lower cruise boost and when more spool is needed I just rapidly close needle. Fiddling with needle valve on the fly is unsafe and just guess work.

    With the recent ECU remap, even doing long hauls with or without tow at full boost 20-21psi (max spool/needle fully closed), I do not experience limp at all these days.
    2008 GU WAG ST Manual CRD - To do the job

  5. #4
    The master farter mudski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidja View Post
    With ECU remap, best run Sweet Spot is Max Boost 21 psi with cruise boost of 18 psi (slight load at 100 km/hr). Any lower cruise boost, the performance is poor(laggy), With any increase of load above 45% (a slight incline) boost will run at 20psi. Provides for a good run. My main concern is when out on open roads and running high cruise boost and working the turbo at higher speeds for sustained time periods.

    It is when I am out on open hwy or say on the Hay Plains (lazily cruising along), rather run a cruise boost of 13-14 psi (EGTs do remain OK). When EGTs start rising or require greater pwr response, the higher spool rate/cruise boost needle would be selected.

    Have the needle in the cab and do adjust on the fly. When running lower cruise boost and when more spool is needed I just rapidly close needle. Fiddling with needle valve on the fly is unsafe and just guess work.

    With the recent ECU remap, even doing long hauls with or without tow at full boost 20-21psi (max spool/needle fully closed), I do not experience limp at all these days.
    In my opinion again having the needle valve in the cab is a waste of time and there is zero benefit from doing it. I've fitted up way to many of these to see any benefit. The dawes and needle valve is a set and forget setup. Because both valves are relative to each other in how they work. So if you adjust one you should be adjusting the other. This is what happens when the ecu used to control it all....

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

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