still have my shake

Hi everybody i know this thred has been around for a while but i still have this bl...y shake in my GQ steering at 90klm to 110klm hour befor 90 and after 110 its fine. This is what ive done after reading the MYBE,S on this site. new swivel hub bearings new wheel bearings off set camber bushes. panhard bush. tie rod ends. steering dampner. rims tyres lost count of wheel balance,s. wheel aliment.
and fr shocks so what i figger its all new in the frontend. so plz anybody got other ideas to wat it could be ive now running out of $$$ its already hard on a pension. And i asked the owner befor me has it been in a prang and he said NO so iam at a END IDEAS PLZ :(:(:(

hmmmm you have seemed to cover just about everything. I'm not that familiar with death wobbles in a patrol but coming from owning a jeep I know all about them.
In my experience with death wobbles it has been between 60-80km/h - my drama was an ovaled out hole onto the panhard mount on the chassis end. The joint was fine but because the bolt hole was ovaled it caused the panhard to move a fraction. Beside that I can think of wheel bearings, drag link, steering box, tie rods etc.
How sure are you that its from the front? I had loose wheel nuts one day and it snapped a stud causing the back left to wobble slightly......

good luck with the problem :(

its a common problem which apparently has a whole pile of different solutions.

in my case, the death wobbles were fixed on the mav with a full bush kit

it seems to be more frequent on vehicles that are lifted beyond 2" and where no caster compensation has been done.

also fixed by going to a truck wheel aligner who knew far more about my suspension than the nissan mechanics

why i think its from the front is that the steering wheel wobbles at the above speed i would not think that would happen if its was the rear but you never know a also i put in a steering box but that also was a waste of $. Iam not sure of a lift in her if their is it only a 2'thats y i also put in the 2deg caster bush kit

What about radius arm rubbers where they mount to the body

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Originally Posted by growlers71gq

What about radius arm rubbers where they mount to the body

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all new ones

i'd also get your wheels "on vehicle" balanced - truck aligners do this and IMO do a far better job of it than your avg Jane or Jax type shop.

a rebalance and alignment when I rotated my wheels fixed a small wobble on the shorty.

as before, different inherent problem on both vehicles I own, but both had death wobbles.

Do you feel the wobble through the steering wheel (knocking left and right) or is it just the car?

Have you tried removing the shims.
Seriously someone needs to do a complete guide to this wobble fix using all of the combined info available.
I might have a go at it lol.

Does it have an adjustable panhard? I had mine do it a couple of times when the vehicle flexs it can undo the adjustable panhard it can still feel tight but has enough play in it do this just nip it back up nice and tight

change the wheels and tyres from a vehicle that does not shake - I had out of round brand new Pirellis that caused that problem, and that was how I identified it, and more importantly, proved it to the tyre dealer.

Nothing like turning up wearing a set of absolutely wrecked Hancook tyres that had lugs missing from being used in desert racing, on rusty old rims, that produced not one shake, with the new Pirellis and rims in the back to settle that argument, and end numerous trips back and forth as he tried to sort out the problem.

Of course it could be something else, but is no cost and perhaps worth a look.

Just chucking in some ideas. Steering flex joint: check all the nuts are tight, sitting flush,cracks or worn lugs,pitman arm:the joint should be firm to move from side to side and no up and down movement.Steering shaft bearings.Steering column bolted tight.

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Originally Posted by Silver

change the wheels and tyres from a vehicle that does not shake - I had out of round brand new Pirellis that caused that problem, and that was how I identified it, and more importantly, proved it to the tyre dealer.

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If he's going to do that he should match corner for corner. the wheels will be balanced for that position on the other vehicle. 10:1 each tyre even on a known "non wobbling" vehicle will have different weights in different positions on each wheel

it also assumes that he's got similar suspension setup, spring height, shockers ok, dampener ok, bushes ok, no caster change etc......

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Originally Posted by Silver

change the wheels and tyres from a vehicle that does not shake - I had out of round brand new Pirellis that caused that problem, and that was how I identified it, and more importantly, proved it to the tyre dealer.

Nothing like turning up wearing a set of absolutely wrecked Hancook tyres that had lugs missing from being used in desert racing, on rusty old rims, that produced not one shake, with the new Pirellis and rims in the back to settle that argument, and end numerous trips back and forth as he tried to sort out the problem.

Of course it could be something else, but is no cost and perhaps worth a look.

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been their and done that with no diffance:confused:

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Originally Posted by 97_gq_lwb

Have you tried removing the shims.
Seriously someone needs to do a complete guide to this wobble fix using all of the combined info available.
I might have a go at it lol.

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already done that all it done was make the steering heavy still had shake

through the steering wheel ive had them balanced so many times from different tyre shops makes no diffance at all everything in thr front has been replaced

did you get an "on vehicle" balance? - a normal wheel balance off the vehicle is a waste of time compared to an on vehicle balance
have you checked the panhard bushes?
have you checked the arms going to your front axle, esp right hand side?
have you checked the steering dampener (don't get an RTC as it will only mask the core problem)

In our local patrol forum one guy talk about the same problem after some lift. Then he put his the gear box with transfer case a little bit lower for a few centimetre and vibrations and etc. is disappeared.

Try Jacking up to be able to spin a wheel by hand 1 at a time.
Study the road going surface of the tyre.
Right across it's entire tread.
Bet you find tyre is not round any more.
It may be fine on 1 side and outta round on the other.
Or even an uneven wobble, form 1 side to the other "180deg wobble"
9/10 times, steel rims are BENT NEW direct from the factory.
And these rims stuff you expensive tyres.

It should be mandatory rims are proven to the owner they are precisely round.
" Accredited " true.
Next time you think about tyres, thinking rims also in advance might be the shot.
My lesson, learned the hard and expensive way.

Hope this helps ya out.
Let us know how they look will ya please.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

If he's going to do that he should match corner for corner. the wheels will be balanced for that position on the other vehicle. 10:1 each tyre even on a known "non wobbling" vehicle will have different weights in different positions on each wheel

it also assumes that he's got similar suspension setup, spring height, shockers ok, dampener ok, bushes ok, no caster change etc......

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Hmmmm........maybe. I just turned up at the dealer with the old MQ wearing some extremely ratty looking Hankook tyres and splitties, with the new tyres and rims in the back, and said, 'hop in, notice - no shakes.'

As a result I got 5 replacements that were round and again, no shakes.

So, what I was looking for was not other tyres that did not shake another vehicle, but other tyres that did not shake my vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Silver

Hmmmm........maybe. I just turned up at the dealer with the old MQ wearing some extremely ratty looking Hankook tyres and splitties, with the new tyres and rims in the back, and said, 'hop in, notice - no shakes.'

As a result I got 5 replacements that were round and again, no shakes.

So, what I was looking for was not other tyres that did not shake another vehicle, but other tyres that did not shake my vehicle.

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its a bit of a punt :) getting new rims and tyres (not retreads/recsaps/remoulds) lessens the odds of that combination being out of round and closer to being balance neutral

but, my assumption was on the prev that he should swap tyres with a known vehicle - on that basis, all of what I inferred before should apply.

I reckon you got lucky :)

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Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

its a bit of a punt :) getting new rims and tyres (not retreads/recsaps/remoulds) lessens the odds of that combination being out of round and closer to being balance neutral

but, my assumption was on the prev that he should swap tyres with a known vehicle - on that basis, all of what I inferred before should apply.

I reckon you got lucky :)

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I reckon you could be right - the replacement tyres and rims were ex desert racing, with multiple tread blocks missing and all kinds of ugly stuff going on.... but they worked beautifully :-)

As did the second lot of brand new Dakkars, and unlike the first lot of brand new Dakkars.

Instantly stopped any rot about 'These nissans have weak king pins' and other stuff the dealer was starting to say.

Every time I have bought new tyres since, I have been able to say 'these tyres are worn, but ride well, so if the new ones don't I am going to blame the new tyre - do you want to take it for a drive before fitting?' thus far they have declined and there have been no issues.

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Originally Posted by Silver

Hmmmm........maybe. I just turned up at the dealer with the old MQ wearing some extremely ratty looking Hankook tyres and splitties, with the new tyres and rims in the back, and said, 'hop in, notice - no shakes.'

As a result I got 5 replacements that were round and again, no shakes.

So, what I was looking for was not other tyres that did not shake another vehicle, but other tyres that did not shake my vehicle.

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My point exactly.
I've done this myself.
Even bought new rims and tyres and wobble instantly gone.
Once they start to wear abit, the shake comes back.
And you bet ya, out of round rims and tyres again.

I'd like to add here, this is not just my point of view about the rims.
I was told this buy the local tyre guy.
"9/10 times new rims bent"
"not the same shop who sold em to me".
He was trying to help me get rid of the shake.
He showed me my bent rims.
And stuffed low k tyres.

I bought them both new, at the same time together.
Even specifying std 16" size rolling diameter and off set.
Had the wheels and tyres and rims balanced seperatly to ensure the best possible final balance.
Never been Off Road.
And would have to also say these had a easy go of it, vehicle never loaded up.

I Also have replaced everything.
there was physically nothing left apart from rims and tyres.
replacing everything got rid of the wobble but was left with a shake.
Only good "true rims and tyres" finally fixed the unbalance shaken 4x4 patrol.

Does it do it in 4 wheel drive. Don't know what it proves. Works on paddock vechile. Speedlimiter worked till my wife figured it out.
Bent diff? Most whel aligners check castor not camber(is that right way round).
Had 3 alignments with different mobs and insides of tyre still worn. Took it back and they saiid'sorry we can't do it , or check it). As said before get a good bar and lean on bush nuts particulrly the ones on the bar that stopd side to side. Lean out eindow and have a look , new bushs and I could still see whell sideways movement

I forgot. Check wheel alignment your self. just get apeice of straight heavy wire and cut it off and adjust toe in till wire fits in tread on front and 3mm play on back. Done it a couple off times to get to town and no shake and spot on when aligned. Best of all still had tread tires when I got there.

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Originally Posted by jedskipow

Does it do it in 4 wheel drive. Don't know what it proves. Works on paddock vechile. Speedlimiter worked till my wife figured it out.
Bent diff? Most wheel aligners check castor not camber (is that right way round).
Had 3 alignments with different mobs and insides of tyre still worn. Took it back and they said'sorry we can't do it , or check it. As said before get a good bar and lean on bush nuts particulrly the ones on the bar that stopd side to side. Lean out eindow and have a look , new bushs and I could still see whell sideways movement

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We are all looking for answers.
Please explain, you recon a bent diff and faulty new bushes.
Most of us have probably tried, rubber and urethane.
In a nut shell.
Can you please explain the above in detail, it's a bit cryptic.

And, dying to know how did your Wife figure a speedlimiter out.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Robo

Please explain, you recon a bent diff and faulty new bushes.

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a buggered drive train, axle, buggered diff would come up with an on vehicle wheel balance.

Ok full story
when I purchase Pat/Mav 3.3 yrs back it had 15" sunyraiser rims and tyres that still had 40 thou k left on em.
The car drove perfectly with these 15" on, and good to the end of 15" life..

Rego came up last May and I had 16" std size put on as it a hwy cruiser only.
These were 2nd hand I had from last car.
Rolling dia little larger, nothing bad enough to worry about.
I had purchased them together new and balance seperatly rim/tyre to obtain better bal.
In less than 5 thou k wobble started up.
Remembering 15's lasted 2 yrs and around 40 thou k, with no problems.

Everything was replaced as it the Wife's car.
In steps as below

1) Tightened wheel bearings. slightly better,no.
rotated tyres.no.
2) replaced all tie rod ends. align, better but no.
2.5) replaced tyres, Yoke's AT's. bal align.
good again for approx 3-5thou k.
3) replaced panard bushes. bal, align. temp fix, came back.
rear still looked ok, left alone.
4) front panard, align, temp fix. no.
5) replaced all bushes with rubber f&r. align, temp fix, again flogged front panard out again.
6) replaced " all " front bearings and seals and panard again .bal, align.
wobble gone, now a shake, un-settled front end. no.
7) replaced front caster again, poly this time , bit better. still unsettled.
8) Replaced rims and tyres on advice from ex dealer nissan mech.
Fixed to date 3 mths now, will see how it goes.

cheers

Sounds like the same thing that we have ... shaking from side to side in the steering wheel only ... not felt in the rest of the car.
its only between 75 and 85 kph on ours ... above and below are perfectly fine.

Ours only started when we got the wheel balance/alignment done ... we think it was uneven wear on the tyres, and now they are been balanced the uneven wear is causing the vibration.
We are planning to replace the tyres in the next 6 months or so, so will keep you all posted.

The wobble through steering wheel is usually panard and or tie rod ends.
I have No wobble any more in the steering wheel.
Steering-wheel, feels good.
Only front end has slight shake, felt through cars body.