Help - Hubby wants defender I want Patrol!!!

Hi all,

I need your help and honest opinions...

We are previously a ford owning family always owned Falcon XH's, we have a bench seat and now a new addition of a little girl... we need to move into a family car...

My hubby deadseat has his heart lined up for a defender..

I on the other hand went in a Nissan Patrol and fell in love...

Pro's and cons on both..

Nissan comfort... for long distance driving.. the only thing I didnt like.... is that my hubby didnt feel the same way!!

Defender... plain jane and too uncomfy - I am going to say I do love its character its really like a mini truck its cute (to word like a females view)!

hubby is not convinced yet he cant fault the nissan! Performance wise they seem similar. Noise on both was not noticeable.

What we are worried about...

All these rumours on the hand grenade 3.0L TD engines..... whats the deal?

Also the cars we are looking at (both NEW vehicles)

Defender 2012 2.2L 110 series, 7 seater partial leather (hubby says he can wash out the whole car .. o0o0 big deal!) - no accessories....but we havent sat down and talked business yet...

Patrol
2011 ST with Full leather seats
DVD player, tilt and slide sunroof, side runners, roof rails, black steel bullbar, snorkel, heavy duty rubber floor mats and a set of the carpet ones the saleman really wanted to seal a deal with us and we came away to think about it but we only have today to decide... what price do you think the above is worth...

Who owns a 2011 I really need opinions and honest feedback I want to know what can go wrong with it... we do alot of travelling LONG distance.. at least twice a year across australia we havent done any offroad but plan too, eventually plan do the CSR etc.. The car is mainly going to be around city and suburbs with the twice a year big trips from east coast to west coast and south west to north west.

We really dont want to modify the car in any way we would like to keep it as stock as possible to limit future issues with modifications as we have had past experiences with these mods.

Any help and guidance as soon as you can would be great...

Kizzie

Both are great cars I would imagine anything land rover come at a big price Like any 4wd but they chuck an extra 0 behind everything. As for the 3ltr motor problem era was 2000 to 2002/3 the common rail 3ltr is fine and up to the task.
2011 models seem to be 50 000 with the usual bells and whistles at a car yard I reckon you could just say 45 take it or leave it maybe even 40 000 take it or leave it they shoul be desperate to move the stock.
I think the patrol would be more friendly to use more comfort and room probably cheaper to get parts and service. seems to be the same price the defender a little cheaper to but but no equipment levels. test drive both vehicles a couple of times and see how it compares

G'day welcome aboard! Patrol every time. Also if you plan mods you won't have issues

Also grenade motors are a thing of the past

I'd be going the patrol over Defender, far more comfortable and roomier.

Cheers guys - I agree too but I need backup! LOL like Why?

Also common issues to go wrong - forgot to mention we also get the 150k/6yr warranty too...

I completely agree with you all I just need to give him that little extra push - unfortunately divorce isnt an option either... he would just replace me with a Defender LOL...

Is my hubby mad to even consider the Defender in the same category... I cannot see me agreeing to the Defender at all after being in the Patrol but he is still in two minds with both which means I do have a chance to convince him - he is just sitting ont he fence...

The other thing was it just so happens we walked into the nissan dealership as it was next to where we had parked... we never even intended to look at patrols and I didnt even know they did 7 seaters! Anyways I think he is also trying to get his head wrapped around the idea of having a patrol where his heart was set on a Defender and hoping that I would feel comfortable in it too...

I would think there would be more Nissan dealers scattered around the country than Landy one so service and maintenance might be less convienient with the Landy.
They are a great vehicle, in the diesel they did have troubles with the brake? master cylinder rubbing on the bonnet and leaking oil. Also an idler bearing on one of the belts was not up to scratch and was known to fail.
A mate was on a 4WD test with differing vehicles and the landy they had developed both these problems, when they met other owners they were in or had been in the same predicament. Or their new truck was heading that way much to their suprise and dismay.
In saying all that it was 2 1/2 years ago and mods may well have been done to fix the problem.
A couple of things to look for and ask questions, good luck. Whaterver you get you will enjoy.
Macca

Defender is a very good rig does very well of road and I really like them but if you're doing long drives look at the difference in space fuel economy equipment levels price service costs and basic parts test drive both in different times a couple of drives each look at safety availabillity of parts and weigh it up.
As much as I love the defender I love my patrol more.

I have a 2010 ST Patrol Auto and tow a 1500kg Jayco discovery. It's the best off road vehicle I have owned. You will be able to remove the two back seats and still have a five seater with room for fridges, prams and anything else family. Do your comparisons. It's a no brainer!

Enjoy
Jock

Look into the cost of servicing and parts .
That might be enough to persuade him.
Especially if it is a long term purchase landrover parts prices can be phenominal.

Of course this is the place where Patrols rule but one of the guys at work has a defender, at 80000k (the change interval for the timing belt) he was on his way to the mech to get it replaced and yes you guessed it, it broke. mangled the engine and cost the towing bill as well. Job was done new rods, new belt. On his way home, only 50 odd klms from the mechs yep it happened again, genuine part genuine Landrover mechanic, the new timeing belt let go, yes the mechanic did the repair, but it was days before he got the vehicle back.... I am sure there are horror stories from the Patrol camp but this one I witnessed

The 110's are very reliable but the same as most cars if they are looked after, they are a lot easier to work on as the have the isuzu running gear etc in them, down side is they are thirsty, smaller and less comfortable.

As others have mentioned, work out what you really need the rig for. Is it work paying the extra for the factory gear like dvd etc or go a cheaperodel patrol and get after market gear put in as it will work out a lot cheaper.

Either 1 you choose, you will have a good rig fir touring or off road work.

The Defender straight off the showroom floor is probably the most capable vehicle in difficult terrain that you can buy. But ask your husband why is it then that the Patrol is so very much more popular? It's because here in Australia we require a vehicle that can cruise very long distances reliably and in comfort, rather than for its ability to climb a 45degree slope. The Patrol offers comfort way beyond the Defender- point out to him that that equates to less chance of car sickness for children, and therefore greater opportunities to indulge in 4wdriving as a family. And although a lot of people do modify their Patrols, a standard Patrol is a very competent off road vehicle in which you could confidently undertake a trip to anywhere in Australia. I've seen stock vehicles cruise happily through the Simpson and the Cape.
As previously stated, so called "grenade" issues appear to have been overcome with the common rail Patrols, although many armchair experts will still show their "knowledge" by regaling those who'll listen with past stories. You could balance this with the old line about 95% of all Land Rovers ever built are still on the road. The rest have made it home. Certainly the Land Rover brand has long suffered from its image of poor build and reliability problems, although that too may have changed in recent years.
Perhaps fuel economy of the auto Patrols may be a deterrent, but if you're thinking manual, the difference is minimal, and you'll have a vehicle that is a pleasure to drive both off and on road.
Hope this helps, Kizzie.

I hear what you say about keeping mods to a minimum - but wagons need a cargo barrier.

If you are touring, a set of drawers is probably well worth considering.

Defenders still have that small back door? Limiting in lots of ways loading and moving stuff - and very limiting for drawer sets. On the other hand, if going for a dual cab ute, what is the ride quality like when empty?

Ok we have a 130 dual cab defender ( currently for sale) and a 4 day old 2012 patrol. Before making the choice of buying the patrol we were going to by a new defender. What changed our minds were a few things. Service costs Nissan are cheaper. Warranty Nissan are better. Face to face service Nissan were better ( this could be dealer specific ). Long distance driving Nissan seems better. Fuel economy was about the same. Nissan comes factory auto. Defender is louder (we have to actually ask the kids to yell so we can hear them in the front). Nissan is cheaper to buy. Defender can be washed out. Defender dust and water seals are crap they WILL leak and let dust in. Defender will leak oil. Our mechanic who is a land rover guru told us not to buy the new ones. There have been a lot more things go wrong with the new defenders then there has with the Nissan such as ignitions oil leaks belts etc. in saying all this the defender is great off road and you will get a wave from everyother defender you pass. Getting parts away from a major city will be easier and faster with the Nissan.
The defender is a way of life a Nissan is luxury and reliability

It is pretty hard to refute the sort of 1st hand experience that Offroadmafia has provided, Kizzie. You should be able to get your choice now.

Land Rovers are notorious for their electrical problems, oil leaks and water leaking into the cabin when it rains or the vehicle was washed.

My father had an older model dual cab ute. I don't think his was classed as the 110, I think he had the longer wheel base model.

Anyway, he suffered numerous electrical problems, oil leaks and they never did stop the water leaking into the cabin problem.

My previous neighbour about 5 years ago, purchased a brand new Defender wagon.

It still had the same water leaking into the cabin problem that the dealer was unable to stop after numerous attempts.

As well as some electrical problems, I can't remember him complaining about oil leaks.

The Patrols suffer very few electrical problems and generally do not leak oil.

The "grenade ZD30" refers to the early ZD30 engines, vehicles manufactured in 2000-2003. Nissan had a lot of problems with these new engines when they were first released.

These problem have been resolved and you should not have any problem with a later model vehicle.

I was working at a Holden dealership when the GEN 3 V8 engines were first released and we were rebuilding 3 a week because of the problem they had, so Nissan aren't the only ones to have problem when a new engine is released.

I personally do not like Land Rovers, to me they are ugly, boxed shaped and uncomfortable to ride in.

But my father loves them, he owned numerous Land Rovers over the years ranging from a 1949 model to his last one a Discovery.

It really comes down to which vehicle suits your needs best.

Have you had a look at the Land Rover forum? I sure they will give you some Ideas of common faults.

Good luck with you choice.

Cheers Rodney

I work for the Gov't so trust me I'm here to help... :jawdrop:

IMHO offroadmafia nails it.

My vocation takes me all over coastal WA from the Kimberley to east of Esperance and we have a small fleet of 4X's to get around in which are changed out every 3 years.
Currently we have a Cruiser, Defender, Triton and a Ranger and just turned over a 4.8 Patrol and a Hilux soon to pick up a Navara and haven't decided on what else.

We all hate the Defender with a passion for long distance IE over 500 K's (some of our trips are well over 4,000) uncomfortable, very basic, noisy, nowhere near the room of the other vehicles in the cabin brilliant off road tho.

The best truck head and shoulders was the 4.8 Patrol (Dang we miss it) but thank God the tax payer was paying for fuel.

For a family vehicle/daily driver that has to do the odd long distance holiday I would rate a Patrol streets ahead of the Defender in every aspect 'cept hardcore 4WD. In the touring that I do with with Missus and often Grandkids in the vehicle if the terrain is bad enough that my Patrol won't get thru or the mud and water is that deep then I don't want to go there this trip anyway... for work or with mates yeah, maybe, but with the family on board, no thanks.

Ask hubby, "Yes, you can wash the Defender out with a fire hose, just curious how often you plan on doing that sort of trip with me and the kid/s and what the plan is if we have a breakdown?"

It wasn't a platinum 4.8 2009 auto model was it ET? As the 1 I purchased a few weeks back was ex gubbermint in perth

Euthanasia is the answer!! ;)

The defender is fundamentally the same car that crossed continents in the 1960s. Awesome car no doubt but we are in another century and in 2012. The old G60 Nissan did alright back then too but the Marque has found the wonder of the industrial revolution and the creature comforts that are reasonably expected in today's world.

It really is chalk and cheese. Tell him to buy an old zook for bush bashing and get real and buy the Nissan. There will simply never be a single minute of regret or what if.

Have you guys actually gone for a drive in the landy? Wow! Get in that and all will become clear!!! You will NEVER agree to the defender once you have sat in it.

Have fun in the Nissan

The answer is simple.....


Get a NEW HUBBY !!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillsGU

The answer is simple.....


Get a NEW HUBBY !!!!!!!

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Hahaha!! Yep, easy fix!!

Lucas

there's horror stories and there's horror stories. mixed stories from me as I've had defenders and disco's as work vehicles when overseas
my first job was fixing landies - and I still have a soft spot for them. like all marques they have their quirks and character bits. I currently have 3 x 4wds. a patrol swb, a maverick lwb and a range rover classic with a 351windsor and C4 conversion.

the rangie is the more capable 4wd by a golden mile, and is the more fun to drive, but if I was going long distance I'd take the maverick for loadability or the gq for economy (dual fuel). although the rangie can be excused because it has a 351 in it, its still got the range of a drunken cat even on dual fuel. the rangie classics are basically the same drive train as a disco 1. I wouldn't sell any of these vehicles, they are all keepers as far as I'm concerned (had the rangie for 14 years and its never caused me grief. those drivetrains are bulletproof. disco drivetrains are in the same vein. I drove discos in spain and india for work and they were like the ever-ready bunny, they just kept on going and going. interestingly enough some of the terrain in india is just as challenging as it is in australia - and they've got less dealer support by some margin. they do have some smart "bush mechanics" though.

I'd add that I get my pommy parts straight from the UK or europe as australian dealers rape you three ways, as you come in, while you're in and while you walk out. although I have to may the rangie/disco/defender dealer at Black Forest in Adelaide is the most honest one I came across. At that point I was looking at trading in the rangie for a disco/defender. I stayed with the rangie as I wasn't keen on disco computers packing up when bush. Its also the reason why I have a mav and gq - no computers to break and basically anyone who has lifted a spanner can work on it. I like the defender (es the 130's) but parts comparisons were frightening at times.

I did look at a disco 3 last year but decided against it (electronics and through life costs scared me off) at the end of the day the support network for nissans and toyotas trumps anything landrover can do, so its a big winner.

If I was back in europe I'd buy a defender in a heartbeat, parts are cheap, the mechanics know what they're doing and the support network is amazing - but the only rival for the gq shorty for me is a landrover 90 series.

hi: i will go with the deferder. i has had to much problems with the nissan patrol i had two. in the other hand my brother had 4 defenders and had o problems, good look

Hi Kizzie. I can see exactly where you are coming from. I am jumping ship from Toyota to Nissan. I have driven quite a few Defenders and have had a longish relationship with a mate's 130 Defender. As has been noted elsewhere, out of the box they are probably the most capable off road vehicle there is. But they have their downside. I won't get too technical. Water, dust, noise, build quality etc. All these things are fixable but need a lot of time and dollars to do so. They are actually very comfortable to drive. However, if you like comfort, a quieter ride, and a better place for the kids to be in on long trips then the Defender is probably not for you. In my case, if I only had to consider myself, then I would probably have gone with a Defender. My wife made it quite clear if I got a Defender I would be travelling alone. She likes the GU Patrol. I like the GU Patrol.

As good as the Defenders are, in your case, I recommend you get the Patrol. Tell hubby to pull his head in and consider you first. The Patrol will go anywhere a Defender will. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

2011??? grenade??

someone's got that wrong for certain..

Tell hubby, he can adopt all us if he get the troll.

honestly, do whatever you have to, to stop him from buying the deffender,
even if it means you have to buy him a H1 Hummer eve\n !

Best of luck Kizzie

The defender that your hubby is after is not the defender that we all know and some of us have used . The new defender is simply an uncomfortable suv without any of the robustness that made landrover a natural choice for comonwealth forces worldwide. If he was after the old TD5 or even the older 300TDi then you would be saving enough money to pay easily for the chiropracters bills over the life of the vehicle and have a proven vehicle that although famously uncomfortable and not that reliable would be quite capable off road. The new defender has a new everything and that is where the problem lies...nobody knows how good or bad they are, or how long they will last, all they have going for them is the image and reputation of the old defender which let's face it wasn't that great anyway unless you were an Army and could afford the inventory and downtime to maintain them. A new Patrol or even a Discovery3 would be my choice but certainly not a new defender.

go to www.google.com.au and type in "complaints corner" its great website on car faults and then have a look at the list of car owners complaints about the defender then check out what type of faults, that should turn you off , there will be a list of nissan faults too but they are for the older model zd30 motor 3 litre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GRA.GU

The Defender straight off the showroom floor is probably the most capable vehicle in difficult terrain that you can buy.

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There is lots more to 4x4 than capability. Obstacles you can usually go around if you've got any sense, but breakdowns can happen anywhere, and capability will not help you then.

Rover and Nissan (and Toyota) approach 4x4 design in different ways: Rover is largely a specialist builder of purpose-built 4x4s. If I were to design a 4x4 from the ground up, I'd hoist a lot of Rover's design ideas.

Nissan and Toyota are generalist builders which produce 4x4s designed around the lessons learned from a long history of building practical and reliable passenger cars. This is why you see so many toddling around in places like Afghanistan and Africa.

So Kizzie.. how did we go? Is your hubby going to join the forum? What did you end up deciding on?

Try a landy forum and ask the same Question and measure it up any way you like.
I agree with Mrowka from a couple of post back.
There is lots more to 4x4 than capability. Obstacles you can usually go around if you've got any sense, but breakdowns can happen anywhere, and capability will not help you then.

"Rover and Nissan (and Toyota) approach 4x4 design in different ways: Rover is largely a specialist builder of purpose-built 4x4s. If I were to design a 4x4 from the ground up, I'd hoist a lot of Rover's design ideas.
Nissan and Toyota are generalist builders which produce 4x4s designed around the lessons learned from a long history of building practical and reliable passenger cars. This is why you see so many toddling around in places like Afghanistan and Africa".

Look at any rover british car and you will see typical stick in the mud approach, min cost, min investment, min redesign, buyer beware.
Typical chin up chaps its only a clitch just fess up a few more $$$ and good as new lol.

Probably the only reason def out the box is better, "Its smaller" .
That is your answer there, You have kids and that takes space.
Problem solved.

I know a few people who have owned disco's. Most have enjoued the car but all have complained about costs of servicing. Constant 4x4 increases the fuel costs and regular repairs. At least with nissan, cheaper parts can be found and generally are quite reliable.

Patrol for sure! Try getting spares for a Land rover anywhere outside a major city, you will have to sell some organs just to pay for it. Accessories parts and service are all alot more common for the patrols. Re sale will be better too. If he so badly wants a rover, ship him off to the mother land, they love em over there!

For remote area touring i would seriously think about a defender. I had cracked my 04 defender alloy radiator and a/c on termite mound just off Gibb River Road .It took Land Rover Australia 8 days to get a replacement to Darwin from somewhere in Asia! 8 days is a long time to spend waiting while on a 5 week road trip.For that reason I chose to buy a patrol as the service and parts network are far greater than Land Rover could offer.

Just to put my comments in perspective.
I live in Alice Springs 45 degrees in summer -4 in winter it really tests most things ,especially cars.I regularly do 3000K drives plus a bit of camping & 4x4ing with wife & 2 kids a short drive for a weekend pick-nick & swim would be 300k round trip.

Owned 2 Landys A Defender & a Range Rover 03 hse ,got rid of the Defender just because of servicing & parts costs plus on long runs 600ks & up per day they are fatiguing to drive just from noise & lack of creature comforts.
Replaced that with a 2002 Patrol , sold that to a mate on an impulse & regretted it for years.He is still towing stuff around the outback with it & at 200,000 km & has replaced 1 starter motor & some tyres in ten years.
This prompted me to buy another Patrol recently & I feel utter satisfaction with the decision.

Still trying to get rid of the Range Rover only because of the above costs.
I must say it is really comfortable to sit in which is fortunate because when stranded again & again because of breakdowns you want somewhere comfortable to sit while you save up for the repair cost.
Now my wife only drives it around town that way its not too far to come & pick her up.

Comfort ,Landy - spartan at best , noisy & not really comfortable
Patrol - win

Drivability , Landy - clunck your way through those gears for years especially in the city, & take forever getting up to speed on those long runs.
Patrol - put it in D & enjoy ,city or hi-way they are great.

Service/parts prices Landy - call the bank manager
Patrol -Look at that, I can still buy fuel after picking it up.

parts availability - Landy - if your in a city & there has been a shipment from Land Rover recently you may be in luck, if you are in the outback luck is all you have.
Patrol - no problem lots of rural dealers , supercheap , repco or wrecking yard ANYWHERE in the country City or outback you can usually get out of trouble.
Having said that if its serviced regularly it very likely you may only need to replace tyres every few years & thats all.

Re-sale Landy - people are cautious because of the costs involved in service & parts .
Patrol - you may not even bother as this car will keep you happy for many years.


off Road ability - They are both more than capable enough for enjoyable off road work but if you want to get really serious it is far cheaper & there is a much better range of parts for the patrol.

These are only my experiences , hope it helps.

I am also owner of 2 Defenders and 2 patrols. I take the rovers to extreme difficult and narrow mining roads (Andes) and the Patrols to long desert (Atacama) traversing trips. It is very difficult to change the feelings of a Defender fan... only after a 15 day trip they might admit they are not so comfy.

Where all waiting for, which mums bus are you go to get.
And hey the 93 patrol /maverick we have is.
the Wife's run around.
Grand kids in the back to.
And for towing heavy twin horse float.
Jack of all trades.
If you buy landy, and have kids it WILL be an expensive mistake.

No brainer, PATROL

Just to bring in a new perspective. I can well understand your husband's opinion and to be honest the Patrol and Defender are completely different vehicles with a different ethos. The first Defender I ever drove was built in 1967, and buying one for the family was as ridiculous as doing the school run in a tractor. The Defender was built for off-road use by farmers and the military. The only on-road use was moving it between fields. I used to drive this old petrol defender (in the 80s) just for fun and to turn a few heads. Travelling more than a few miles was difficult as your ribs would hurt from the road vibration, and the windscreen wipers could shift mud but not water, so you were in serious trouble if it rained. Off road however, it was pure genius. The Defender attracted cult status, and its popularity grew beyond soldiers and farmers, so a need for some refinement was presented - hence the newer and more comfortable defenders. These vehicles have all the cult magic of the original and won't blacken the wife's eyes.

Another group of vehicle owners looked on with envious eyes, but weren't prepared to sacrifice all the luxury of road driving - so vehicle like the discovery, Patrol, Shogun/Pajero, and Landcruiser were born. If you want a true 4x4 that is also capable on the road, and you want to smile everytime you look at your vehicle squatting on the drive caked in mud, then you need the Defender (which gets better looking the older and dirtier it gets.) If you want a large comfortable car that is also capable off road then get the Patrol which needs regular cleaning, and vacuuming to stay looking good. I'm a true Defender fan - but have just bought a new Patrol Y61 as we've just relocated from the UK and for now need comfort, a good parts network, and good dealer support. No doubt I'll be back in a defender eventually.

Wow deep thread dig Can you jump over to the intros and say g'day something we ask all members to do cheers Edit: what you've missed old cock is :) 1 Patrol has a much much much stronger driveline 2 Patrol won't stain your driveway with numerous oil leaks 3 Patrol off the showroom floor will outdo a defender any day of the week 4 Patrols just better in every respect :) Oh and wow ya want electrical gremlins buy a depender hahahahaha

Mine looks good without having a wash :)