Different Modes of 4WD

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19th October 2011, 07:16 AM
holden4th

Different Modes of 4WD

Hello, my first post here (after my intro) and I have a newbies question which may seem obvious to most. My previous fourbie was a Pajero and I had access to 2WD, 4H, 4H centre locked and 4L centre locked.

My GU IV only seems to have 2WD, 4H and 4L. So the question I am asking is when is centre locked engaged? Is it right from the moment I go to 4H or is it only in 4L? Is the mode indicated anywhere on the dash controls? I know that I have to manually engage the front hubs and am assuming that this engages the 4WD once I've put the transfer case lever into the desired position. Can I leave the hubs in this mode or will I get transmission wind up.

Where I would engage 4H in the Paj on dirt, friends of mine in Patrols seemed quite happy to stay in 2WD mode and this is also puzzling. I don't think I will be needing to use any 4WD mode until the new year so I've got a bit of time up my sleeve to learn the ropes.

Thanks for answering this. I have other questions and if I can't answers by searching the forum then I'll come back and ask again.
19th October 2011, 07:59 AM
Bigrig

Hey mate - no such thing as an obvious or silly question, so keep em coming.

If you have auto hubs (assuming you do) you can simply go from 2wd to 4wd on the fly up to about 60klms per hour (they state up to 80 I believe but I always play on the side of caution) and the hubs lock in automatically and you are now in 4H and ready to roll - no centre locking mechanism. You need to be stationary in neutral to engage 4L and same rule applies - ready to go. Same process for going out of the gears, stopped to go from 4L to 4H but can change back from 4H to 2H on the fly.

If you have manual hubs, you'll need to put them into the locked position to be able to engage 4wd, but you can lock them in prior when you first get to dirt, sand etc and run in 2H with them locked until you need to engage 4wd with no dramas at all.

Hope this helps mate - others will have more to offer also.
19th October 2011, 01:17 PM
philws

G'day,

The difference between the Paj and the trol is that the paj is constant all wheel drive, thus engine is always driving the front and back wheels, this is why you don't have hub locks on the paj. it is also why the paj has a center differential, to deal with differences in wheel speed between the front and back when you are driving on tarmac the paj uses a centre differential to split the drive, when you are 4x4ing though you want an equal 50/50 split of drive going front and rear which is why you can lock the centre diff on the paj. with the troll only when you engage 4h or 4l does the drive shaft to the front axle start to spin. to aid driving and reduce wear the troll has free wheeling hubs for when you are on the road, this means that the wheels can spin independently of the axle which is why when you engage 4 wheel drive you need to lock the hub to the axle via either auto hub locks (most GU trolls) or manual hub locks, which you said you have.

Cheers

Phil
19th October 2011, 01:21 PM
philws

Sorry the paj isn't constant all wheel drive
19th October 2011, 01:24 PM
patch697

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

G'day,

The difference between the Paj and the trol is that the paj is constant all wheel drive, thus engine is always driving the front and back wheels, this is why you don't have hub locks on the paj. it is also why the paj has a center differential, to deal with differences in wheel speed between the front and back when you are driving on tarmac the paj uses a centre differential to split the drive, when you are 4x4ing though you want an equal 50/50 split of drive going front and rear which is why you can lock the centre diff on the paj. with the troll only when you engage 4h or 4l does the drive shaft to the front axle start to spin. to aid driving and reduce wear the troll has free wheeling hubs for when you are on the road, this means that the wheels can spin independently of the axle which is why when you engage 4 wheel drive you need to lock the hub to the axle via either auto hub locks (most GU trolls) or manual hub locks, which you said you have.

Cheers

Phil

Couldn't have put it better & it also saved me some typing.....hahahaha

Nicely done.
19th October 2011, 01:29 PM
patch697

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

Sorry the paj isn't constant all wheel drive

they still run a center diff which is why they have a center diff lock, much like the early LandRovers. So your post is still relevant to the explanation you gave.
19th October 2011, 02:19 PM
Dr Drift

so whats the difference when i put the troll in 4h without locking the hubs as apossed to locking the hubs and 4h or same with 4l....
When i tow the boat up the ramp i just shift the 4x4 stick into 4h and i dont get out off car to lock the hubs? Im new to 4x4ing and thought thats all i need to do and i feel the fronts grip on the ramp and she pulls me up fine...

Dr Drift....
19th October 2011, 02:21 PM
Dr Drift

Sorry mine is a 2008 CRD... with manual hubs as there is no button in the car so thats what i assume your talking about as diff lock...
So whats the difference off locking the hubs compared to just shifting into gear without locking hubs... I think the original poster is asking the same thing?

Dr Drift...
19th October 2011, 02:26 PM
philws

Are you sure you have manual hubs? Auto hubs don't have a button in the car, the mechanism is still located on the hub but with auto hubs it is actuated by the application of drive to the front axle. manual hubs however require that you get out of the car and twist a switch on the hub to lock it to the axle. As your is a 08 it will have auto hubs unless you have changed it to manuals.
19th October 2011, 03:38 PM
Dr Drift

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

Are you sure you have manual hubs? Auto hubs don't have a button in the car, the mechanism is still located on the hub but with auto hubs it is actuated by the application of drive to the front axle. manual hubs however require that you get out of the car and twist a switch on the hub to lock it to the axle. As your is a 08 it will have auto hubs unless you have changed it to manuals.

Sorry to be a real newbie so dont laugh... Im new to 4bying and i know that i dont have a button in the car. So i assume its manual hubs. I just went to look at the car and yes your right! It says AUTO or locked.... so whats the difference in that sense. Told youz that im new to all this stuff.... rofl

Dr Drift...
19th October 2011, 04:42 PM
philws

No worries Dr Drift, auto is auto i.e. engages when you start 4x4ing, lock will lock the hubs all the time. there should be a sticker on you sun visor about how they work. I believe with the auto for them to disengage you are meant to drive 3.3 meters backwards? anyone else feel free to correct.

Phil
19th October 2011, 04:44 PM
MudRunnerTD

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden4th

Hello, I have a newbies question. My previous fourbie was a Pajero and I had access to 2WD, 4H, 4H centre locked and 4L centre locked.

My GU IV only seems to have 2WD, 4H and 4L. So the question I am asking is when is centre locked engaged? Is it right from the moment I go to 4H or is it only in 4L? Is the mode indicated anywhere on the dash controls? I know that I have to manually engage the front hubs and am assuming that this engages the 4WD once I've put the transfer case lever into the desired position. Can I leave the hubs in this mode or will I get transmission wind up.

Where I would engage 4H in the Paj on dirt, friends of mine in Patrols seemed quite happy to stay in 2WD mode and this is also puzzling.

Note that the Patrol is a heavier car with an LSD in the rear and front diff. The LSD in the rear will outdrive most all wheel drive cars in 2wd mode with ease. The Patrol is sure footed and steers well in the dirt. If you felt a need to put the Paj into 4H then it may well have just felt a little skatey over the dirt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

G'day,

The difference between the Paj and the trol is that the paj is constant all wheel drive, thus engine is always driving the front and back wheels, this is why you don't have hub locks on the paj. it is also why the paj has a center differential, to deal with differences in wheel speed between the front and back when you are driving on tarmac the paj uses a centre differential to split the drive, when you are 4x4ing though you want an equal 50/50 split of drive going front and rear which is why you can lock the centre diff on the paj. with the troll only when you engage 4h or 4l does the drive shaft to the front axle start to spin. to aid driving and reduce wear the troll has free wheeling hubs for when you are on the road, this means that the wheels can spin independently of the axle which is why when you engage 4 wheel drive you need to lock the hub to the axle via either auto hub locks (most GU trolls) or manual hub locks, which you said you have.

Cheers

Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

Sorry the paj isn't constant all wheel drive

Your right the Paj is a rear wheel drive 2wd car.

The Reason that they run a 2H, 4H, 4H centre diff lock, and 4L centre Diff lock is because, unlike a Nissan Patrol, they go from 2WD to All wheel Drive before going to 4wd. and then all above is applicable. Also of much importance and changes things somewhat - The Pajero is an Independent front end and does not have a front tail shaft like the Nissan so will not engage the front without the centre diffllock.

The same things apply to the 80 series landcruiser when they brought out the full time four wheel drive we all know that what they actually gave the customer was the first generation of the constant all wheel drive system they run in the Rav 4 now.

To the newbies here, an All Wheel Drive system will allow ALL the power to go to ONE wheel! front or back, where ever traction is lost. For a Toyota to become a 4WD in the same sense as a Patrol it must engage its Centre difflock to lock the transfer case into mode. Thats about the same time that we put ours into 4H and their centre Diff lock is no further advantage to them but helps them get to our level. Without the centre diff lock engaged it is possible to get an 80 stuck with the front left wheel in the air. No Drive is possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patch697

they still run a center diff which is why they have a center diff lock, much like the early LandRovers. So your post is still relevant to the explanation you gave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Drift

so whats the difference when i put the troll in 4h without locking the hubs as apossed to locking the hubs and 4h or same with 4l....
When i tow the boat up the ramp i just shift the 4x4 stick into 4h and i dont get out off car to lock the hubs? Im new to 4x4ing and thought thats all i need to do and i feel the fronts grip on the ramp and she pulls me up fine...

Dr Drift....

Quote:

Originally Posted by philws

Are you sure you have manual hubs? Auto hubs don't have a button in the car, the mechanism is still located on the hub but with auto hubs it is actuated by the application of drive to the front axle. manual hubs however require that you get out of the car and twist a switch on the hub to lock it to the axle. As your is a 08 it will have auto hubs unless you have changed it to manuals.

Yes so as noted your Auto hubs are in the Auto Position so engaging 4H on the boat ramp gives you 4wd without a diff lock, drive to the front and the back, all good, gets you out of trouble and your a winner, in an 80 series that guy would engage his centre diff lock for the same reason.

one of the disadvantages of the Auto hubs is that you cant if you wanted to go into 4L without the hubs and run around basically in 2L for a big hill climb on the bitumen towing a big load, handy but with a CRD you should have no real dramas there. The Auto hub is also considered a weaker Hub than the Nissan Manual Hubs and some Upgrade to the full manual hubs you remember seeing on the first Hiluxes and stuff, with the turn key on the hub.

If your looking to stay offroad for an extended period and want peace of mind then switch your hubs from Auto to Lock using your wheel brace and your hubs are locked in and your now driving one of the best 4WD vehicles on the market. Have fun
19th October 2011, 05:15 PM
macca86

good info tony
19th October 2011, 08:03 PM
holden4th

So what you are saying is if I turn my manual hubs to locked but don't engage 4WD then I'll be OK? No wind up or anything like that? My main worry was me forgetting to manually turn the hubs back from locked even after I'd put the lever back to 2wd and causing some serious damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigrig

Hey mate - no such thing as an obvious or silly question, so keep em coming.

If you have auto hubs (assuming you do) you can simply go from 2wd to 4wd on the fly up to about 60klms per hour (they state up to 80 I believe but I always play on the side of caution) and the hubs lock in automatically and you are now in 4H and ready to roll - no centre locking mechanism. You need to be stationary in neutral to engage 4L and same rule applies - ready to go. Same process for going out of the gears, stopped to go from 4L to 4H but can change back from 4H to 2H on the fly.

If you have manual hubs, you'll need to put them into the locked position to be able to engage 4wd, but you can lock them in prior when you first get to dirt, sand etc and run in 2H with them locked until you need to engage 4wd with no dramas at all.

Hope this helps mate - others will have more to offer also.
19th October 2011, 09:02 PM
teleman

Ok Dr Drift. So when in 'Auto' the front wheels will engage when you shift the transfer box to 4h or 4l. This is "drive to the front wheels' as mentioned above.
When in locked position all wheels are engaged weather the transfer box is in gear or not. Although it is not recommended to drive in locked position in normal driving.
The Patrol is a serious off roader (and a great daily driver) so my point is when 4x4-ing you want to know exactly whats going to what wheel. All these 'constant all wheel drive' and 'full time 4 wheel drive' are great but nothing compares to the simplicity in the patrol.
I have manual hubs and only sometimes need to lock the hubs, cause thing just goes anywhere.
Good luck and dont forget to keep asking questions. :)
19th October 2011, 09:03 PM
teleman

In shorter words, i agree with mud runner.
HAHAHA
19th October 2011, 09:26 PM
Bigrig

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden4th

So what you are saying is if I turn my manual hubs to locked but don't engage 4WD then I'll be OK? No wind up or anything like that? My main worry was me forgetting to manually turn the hubs back from locked even after I'd put the lever back to 2wd and causing some serious damage.

It won't cause damage as such mate if youre in 2wd as its only spinning the diff (no drive from the transfer case) - a lot of people actually do this every now and then to get the oil around the diff parts when they don't go off road much - definitely don't leave them in all the time, but it won't hurt to have them in for a period. The biggest thing you may notice is a larger turning circle as the wheels are 'locked' together and excessive tyre wear as a result ...

Definitely don't leave them in and drive with 4wd selected on hard surfaces for too long - that will stuff it for sure ...

Hope that's helped!!! Keep em coming mate!!!
19th October 2011, 11:06 PM
Dr Drift

Wow what an awesome site! No mocking the newbies and we aint made to feel like idiots with question that seem hard for us but probably very simple for the experienced! Thank you all I have learnt a great deal about my patrol today and hope to learn alot more from you blokes....

Tony
aka
Dr Drift...
19th October 2011, 11:09 PM
Bigrig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Drift

Wow what an awesome site! No mocking the newbies and we aint made to feel like idiots with question that seem hard for us but probably very simple for the experienced! Thank you all I have learnt a great deal about my patrol today and hope to learn alot more from you blokes....

Tony
aka
Dr Drift...

Most welcome mate - we all start somewhere, it's just that too many so called 'pros' forget that they once knew little also ... glad you've got something out of it and don't be shy on the questions, you hate asking them, but we love answering them!!!

Hopefully you'll be able to tag along to one of the forum trips - then you'll see assistance and mateship first hand!!! And maybe get to sink a few tinnies as well !!!! lol
19th October 2011, 11:22 PM
Dr Drift

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigrig

Most welcome mate - we all start somewhere, it's just that too many so called 'pros' forget that they once knew little also ... glad you've got something out of it and don't be shy on the questions, you hate asking them, but we love answering them!!!

Hopefully you'll be able to tag along to one of the forum trips - then you'll see assistance and mateship first hand!!! And maybe get to sink a few tinnies as well !!!! lol

Nice! Ill have to keep my eye out for the next few events... Sounds awesome...

Dr Drift...
20th October 2011, 12:45 AM
beansathome

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Drift

Wow what an awesome site! No mocking the newbies and we aint made to feel like idiots with question that seem hard for us but probably very simple for the experienced! Thank you all I have learnt a great deal about my patrol today and hope to learn alot more from you blokes....

Tony
aka
Dr Drift...

this is the best place to ask the questions that u think are stuped questions. it is much better to ask something then damage your car or hurt other people. seeing as u are very new with the patrol. have a search on recovery technique using a recovery strap. this can be a good read. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...recovery+strap

i always have a look at safty side of recovery because so much can go rong.
so please ask the stupidest questions u will only get good feed back.

cheers ben
20th October 2011, 12:55 AM
beansathome

oh and this 1 could b a handy 1 to read aswell. all i did was type in recovery in the search bar http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...recovery+strap
20th October 2011, 07:07 AM
Bulbous

Quote:

Originally Posted by teleman

Although it is not recommended to drive in locked position in normal driving.

Not recommended ?
In Nissan's largest market for Patrols, there are no hubs at all !
All Gulf spec Patrols have the front wheels directly connected and the front drive assembly windmills in 2H (Normal use).
How could you tell the Sheik of wherever that he needs to get out of his car and lock in his hubs when the temperature is 50+ degrees. Whoops, he's gone to the Toyo dealer.

There are Patrols here that are still running happily with 600,000+ kms on the clock and no hubs. If you think that there's a chance you may be going off-road, just lock them up and forget about it.

I love the reliability of just yanking back the Transfer lever and knowing that I am DEFINATELY in 4WD
20th October 2011, 10:24 AM
DX grunt

I ALWAYS travel on gravel roads in H4, It was the way I was taught. I believe it is the safest way to travel - more traction/grip/control. It will probably use more fuel, but what price do you pay for safety? Obviously, one must always drive to the conditions of the road and environment.

Take care out there and enjoy.

Rossco

Edit: I've got manual hubs and once or twice, I've locked/unlocked one hub, been distracted,
and forgot to do the same to the other! Be careful!
13th November 2011, 12:09 PM
jimmyjam

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

one of the disadvantages of the Auto hubs is that you cant if you wanted to go into 4L without the hubs and run around basically in 2L for a big hill climb on the bitumen towing a big load, handy but with a CRD you should have no real dramas there. The Auto hub is also considered a weaker Hub than the Nissan Manual Hubs and some Upgrade to the full manual hubs you remember seeing on the first Hiluxes and stuff, with the turn key on the hub.

I have a Gq, and I'm pretty sure the manual says not to run 4L without the front hubs engaged? It would be very useful for tight manuvering of heavy trailers etc. Thoughts oh wise ones?
13th November 2011, 01:18 PM
YNOT

Welcome to the forum Jimmy, when you get a minute drop by the introductions page and tell us a bit about yourself and your Patrol.

The reason I believe Nissan (and most other manufactures) recommend you don't use low range without the hubs locked is that you have at least twice as much torque (Patrols have a 2.02:1 reduction in low range) being transfered to the rear axle which can exceed the designed load limits of the axle, with the hubs locked the torque is shared with the front axle.

Plenty of us use low range without the hubs locked for manouvering trailers etc, just don't use heavy throttle and you won't break anything - that said the Patrol has one of the strongest drivelines in the business so the chances of breaking anything are minimal anyway.

Tony