https://gfb.com.au/products/boost-co...nt-vgt-turbos/
Anyone using one of these? What’s your thoughts on it?
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https://gfb.com.au/products/boost-co...nt-vgt-turbos/
Anyone using one of these? What’s your thoughts on it?
Have no experience with these controllers but guess it would be just a boost controller and a needle bleed valve in a single compact assy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
What boost control method are you using at the moment and what are your concerns?
Before spending the $200 maybe I can suggest another control method to try first.
Have u an ECM remap?
It’s simply a Dawes and Needle valve in one. If it works, which I can’t see why it won’t. It’s actually a neat option in my opinion. Back when I was a Official Dawes distributor, I had plans and drawings of something very similar.
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Its neatness is what attracted me to it. I have a dawes valve at the moment. From what I can see that only stops over boosting. I have my boost max set to about 18psi. My boost is still all over the place. This might be a nice alternative to the dawes valves.
So u have stock ECM, full manual boost control (using Dawes + spool needle valve)?
Boost all over the place is concerning. Guess you have the current Dawes (3barracing _ black body unit) improved spring and ceramic ball?
Interested in what cruise boost are you running @ 100kph flat road and what boost when you sightly increase eng load?
Guess you run cruise boost around 16 psi mostly?
Dawes valve only. No needle valve. Still uses the Nissan boost solenoid. I think that the weak link. I have a Beaudesert exhaust and one of those aluminium air cleaner tops. EGR is blocked. I also have Redarc boost and EGT gauge.
That what confuses me. If I am driving up long hills, like the Adelaide hills, it boosts to about 14psi max. And EGT rises. Doesn't go into the red but definitely goes higher. Normal. When on flat road no extra load it hovers around 16-17 PSI. EGT drops way down.
Have had good success with ECM/Vacsol and Dawes as a boost limiter but with a remap. The vacsol with stock ECM could be an issue. Guess your vac hoses are OK maybe u could clean the Dawes and vacsol. Some clean vacsol by flushing with WD40 but I never have had a need.
I was running Vacsol with Dawes as boost limiter (ECM remap and 24psi maxB) for the last 2 months, but did a trip to Melbourne last week down the Hume and was getting sick of running cruise boost 18-20psi w/slight eng loads increase. Vanes are closed most of the time.
I currently run an electronic device that splices into the ECM harness and can maximize the MAF rate by adjustment to the VNT vane aperture opening at different MAP values but this is not for discussion at the moment as I am still working on setting it up.
5 yrs ago use to run the traditional manual boost control _ Dawes and needle valve (no vacsol/stock ECM), running a max B 18psi and cruise up at 16psi (vanes closed most of the time). Moved on from this, does work fine but other options exist.
Try something different, I ran this setup for 12 months with good results, need to open vanes earlier to allow more MAF rate but still get the turbine to spin up fast early for spool.
Setup: Boost controller plus 2 needle valves _ Uses Dawes (say @ 8 psi) +1 needle valve (downstream) adjusted to provide max boost 18psi and use a second needle valve (fresh air pick up / spool needle valve). Could lend u a couple of needle valves but must return them after you trial setup.
Rough Diagram.
Thanks for the offer.... I have looked at that set up before. IMHO I think that there is lots of tubing and more to go wrong. I am drawn to the GFB set up due to its simplicity. I think that I will grab one and have a play. I'll post my results here when I'm done.
What EGT level hauling at 14psi? Maybe just working, for your set up but yes lower PSI = >EGTsQuote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
Do u experience limp?
Just read this.
EGT for just flat and level driving is about 200c. At 14 psi under load it gets to aroung 400c. Never in the red and to be expected. I always thought that a turbo would be allowed to spool up higher under load than on flat normal driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bidja
Whats limp? Is that limp mode?
These EGTs are low actually, so no problem there. I run 180hp /530 N-m FMIC / Procharge stage 3 / 4" induction and cruise 280-350 / haul hard goes 500-550C.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
Keep under 600 for CRD (550 very safe).....
Need to spin up fast early/low down for spool up but need to keep boost under control _ management of vanes opening.
Occurs with stock ECM when you hold excessive MAF volts / MAP for longer time peridod say 10 sec. Set max boost say in 3rd gear (if manual) hauling up hill at say 3000rpm (under load) with needle closed _ adjust Dawes to obtain the max B without limp (limp mode_yes).Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
All the best with the journey a bit of hose is not your problem.
Should I consider a ECM remap after this? I'm in Adelaide but I also spend a bit of time in Melbourne... Is there a place that is good and trustworthy? How much is it on average? Cheers all.
Good remap would be very worthwhile. Best to to do it locally (Adelaide) incase follow up is needed.
Did mine 5yrs ago, first was a postal where you send your ECM to a tuner and they will perform remap in accordance with your drive requirements. A local live tune though is preferred and this is what I did subsequent to original postal (ECPT Tuggerah, NSW)..
Cost, guessing may be: postal $800-900 / live $1100 you need to ring and check.
Where:
Melbourne_I would check out Diesel Tec in Lilydale 03 97395031
Adelaide _ Not known over of there but suggest you ring Jon at JonnyTig Industries and ask for a recommendation. Three yrs ago I visited JT industries for works on a TM cooler and he spoke of a good tuner in Adelaide. Would not harm giving him a call for advice:
https://jonnytig.com/
If you need, let me know an I can make contact.
Others maybe able to suggest a tuner.
This is because the solenoid is stopping the turbo from spooling faster than it needs too. Simply adding a needle valve in will do away with the solenoid and you will have full control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
In this situation where its hitting 14psi and EGTs are rising, if you had a needle valve installed, you would just shut off the needle valve a little more to restrict the air bleed, this will in turn rise the spool rate of the turbo.
ordered the controller. Looks simple to install. I'll post my thoughts about it here when it gets here.
I have one on my crd. Had dawes/needle on it then got car tuned and the spring wasn't holding boost above 18psi so tuner suggested one of these and installed it set to 21psi and I have had 0 issues with it since installed 2 years ago when tune got done!!!
boost controller turned up yesterday. Installed it today. Simple to do. But so far I cannot get more than 10psi boost no matter how much I adjust it. I'll keep tinkering but so far not so good.
pictures would help , but it maybe that the way you have it plumbed up that you are drawing too much air from the air box ( vaccum from airbox via boost solenoid but with the solenoid bypassed ) a needle valve ( spool control ), should basically replace the solenoid . leave the solenoid in position but block air ports ( the wires need to be connected or it will throw codes ).
The solenoid is still plugged in (electrically) but the vacuum ports play no part in the system. All 3 tubes are removed. I'm not sure how blocking the air ports would make any difference??
Block them to keep dirt out so vacsol internal stays clean (just incase u may want to use one day).Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
Your GFB V2 Boost Controller is nothing but a spool rate adjust needle valve plus a boost limiter in a single body assy.
Not used one of these units but suggest you first adjust the rise rate screw (turn it clockwise) to obtain max spool and then only adjust the Boost Rate screw (guess turn it clockwise) to obtain max target boost (say 15-16 psi). If you cannot achieve at least this max boost some thing else is going on.
Try adjusting for the 15-16psi and if no good come back let us know and we can go from there.
If u obtain target boost then slow the spool rate to suit.
As @nipagu7 mentioned post up a pic or diagram of setup.
I'll try and get some pics up soon. On night shift for the next couple of nights then a few days off.
Suggest also recheck the boost hoses / clamps from turbo to inlet manifold throttle body.
So, after much stuffing around I have gone back to e separate dawes valve (DV) and dawes needle valve (DNV) . There was no way that the GFB unit was going to work. The dawes set up works fine its only the extra tubing that the installation involves that i was trying to eliminate. One thing about the GFB unit that concerned me was that when I used my lungs to blow into it and turn the adjustment the boost rise never actually turned off. The air would be diverted and come out the boost ports? Weird. I thought that they were two separate valves. Perhaps not.
Sounds to me you have been sent the wrong valve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
A snip from their website...
Our Manual Boost Controllers are available in two types, one is suited for conventional pneumatic wastegates, and the other is for use with vacuum-actuated VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbine)/VGT (Variable Geometry Turbine) turbos that are commonly used on diesel engines.
I would say the valve you have is to suit a waste gated turbo. Not a VV Turbo.
I bought part number 3009. Thats the part number of their VNT controller according to their web site. Perhaps they sent the wrong one.
Thats my point. Id contact them and ask them how to ID the differences between the two because of your suspicions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcomfort
I hardly ever come on this site these days, John.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bidja
For what I understand, this boost controller is equivalent to what I described elsewhere as a "two needles arrangement".
One being connected to fresh ambiant air, the other to the boost line.
Both of them inject flow in the vacuum line controlling the actuator, and the one connected to the boost line is the one providing a continuous opening of vanes with boost rise. It means that, like any valve arrangement, it will never keep the vanes mid-open, in the best turbo efficiency zone. But this is another story.
As for the setting, one go with the other since, as soon as you open the "boost valve", you also modify the spool-up ( the closed position of the vanes since "boost flow" is injected in the vacuum line even when idle. . So the more you open the boost valve to control max boost, the more you need to close the spool-up valve to compensate for the flow injected by the boost valve. I hope I am clear enough and will be understood.
This continuous opening is much better than a dawes+needle arrangement in that it opens the vanes when the dawes would keep them closed most of the time, which is the worst you may think of for a VNT. But far from the optimum still, as you know.
With valves, the best outcome you can achieve is when making use of one dawes and TWO needles, with the dawes opening early (5-6psi max), and a second needle in "serie" with the dawes to control vanes opening with boost rise (the other needle allowing initial spool-up setting - or max vanes closure).
As soon as the turbo spins fast enough, it makes no sense to keep its vanes closed as all what you do is spending energy fighting against back pressure. Hence a bad eco and un-necessary mechanical stress for your turbo, exhaust manifold... etc.
Notwithstanding the heat carried by compressed air...
What matters is not "boost", but the REAL quantity of air swallowed by your cylinders as indicated by your MAF voltage. the unique - true- "judge of piece" in this domain. In other terms, someone running 25 psi at 2400RPM and 3.8Volts of MAF will always be overtaken by someone having 4.1Volts of MAF and 17psi at the same 2400RPM...
More air in the cylinders allows more fuel to be injected by the IP and more Torque/Power.
Boost is a measure of pressure, not a measure of a quantity of air.
rgds all.
I forgot to add above that, with this type of boost controller, you must make sure the lever applies firmly on the limiting screw and not be "just at the limit" ( and therefore more than with a dawes -needle arrangement ). Reason being that, as soon as you press the throttle, the positive flow injected from the boost line will open the vanes immediately although the turbo has not really started to spin at the right speed. Closing a bit more the 'spool-up' side will allow this effect to be sort of "compensated".