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From what I have read most States have a Maximum Lift of 50mm (2") and yet a lot of People
seem to have 2 1/2 to 6 " Lifts.
If you go over the 2" can you get by with a Engineers Certificate or is it just illegal.??
Also what implications does it have for Insurance and if you have an accident ??
Victoria = Maximum 2" lift and anything over is illegal. Even a lot of 4wd shops these days have stopped selling anything over 2" and especially will not fit anything over 2".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
If you have an accident with higher then 2" and they find out then you will not be covered.
Someone else will have to get back to you Bob re engineering...
Not 100% sure on the laws in vic but in NSW mine has a 6" lift & runs 35's & it's listed with the RTA as it is engineered. has the report number on my rego papers so it is 100% legal. With insurance the main stream insurers won't touch it so it has to be insured with the likes of shannons, Australian 4wd insurance or TCIS just to name a few.
Have a read of the link below & ask vic roads if they have implemented it yet.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa.../vsb_ncop.aspx
Thank you for this information.Quote:
Originally Posted by blowngq
The reason fo me bringing this up is that I am concerned that some members could be driving vehicles that are not covered under there Insurance and there liability if the vehicle is not legal.
The owner of the car with illegal mods caught in accidentQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Will cop the whole damage bill
You dont need any excuse for an insurance company to void a payment
Each state has different rules
There is info on each states road law/codes
Some states its actually not quite 2",more so a 1/3 more travel or a % more in tyre high
Sometimes this actually falls under the 2" (50.8MM) ruling
With mention of the above GQ running 6" lift and 35" tyres
Get caught running that in QLD they will tear you a new one
Yes that's right. The engineers cert only applies to NSW. Anyhow I have driven around Brisbane/Ipswich quite a few times now & have never been hassled. Been lucky I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by MQ MAD
I think there will be a standard rule across Australia of 2" Lift and 33" tyres. I really can't see why we don't have this already and I would gladly accept it. I have 3" lift and 35's because when I bought the Patrol, I was ignorant about 4WD'ing and was told that it's pretty much the standard. Well you can see why.. when you go out into the bush, guys with their 37" tyres and V8's absolutely destroy tracks, and anything less than 35" and 3" lift struggles.
It would be good if everyone had to have the same lift and tyre size, then we're all on even ground. But that's just my opinion on it.
As for legalities, it's all pretty much been said.
in regards to the VSB14,
i thought this gets overridden or superseded by the local state regulations/guidelines?
so if VSB14 says no more than 50mm but the code in qld says +15 then the latter applies.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/c7..._vehicles2.pdf
OK im ignorant on the subject but....if i get a 4wd's modifications engineered, would this approval meet the AS for motor vehicles, which as a national standard should be recognised in all Australian states/territories??
I got no idea on the requirements for an eng. cert.
My understanding if the NCOP was accepted by all states & territories then an engineering cert would be good australia wide. But as it stands now every state has it's own set of rules & regs which in turn is why for e.g. my engineering cert is only good in NSW.Quote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
If the NCOP comes in mine would still only be good for NSW as it was engineered pre NCOP. So I would have to get it re-engineered. But from what I've read I think I would have to drop the lift to 4" as it would only be allowed to be 150mm max lift including tyres.
Soooo is it possible to get a modified vehicle engineered to the same standard as a new Holden Commonhore or Ford if that makes sense (am i clasping at straws?) hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by blowngq
You kinda lost me with that one. There is a set of rules that the vehicle being engineered has to meet. If it meets all those rules then it gets engineered.Quote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
What I'm tryin to say I spose is if u can get a modified vehicle engineered so that it meets all the standards a new car is required to have, regardless of a states different regs it should be "legal" so if I drive from Adelaide to cape York in my lifted but engineered and certified vehicle I wouldn't expect to be busted traveling through Vic Nsw or Qld. Does that make sense??
Yes it does make sense but unfortunately that would be common sense 2 make 1 standard for the whole of Australia, none of those making the rules up have any. States should never of been aloud 2 have different regs from each other, there should be one standard and one standard only!Quote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
What ever happened to being licensed to drive a certain type of vehicle? No matter what lift, what height, etc, if it meets ADR's and sound engineering practices, then wouldn't the logical thing to do be license you accordingly for a specific type of vehicle?? There are buses etc on our roads, and the last time I looked, every single startrak express courier van is bigger and higher (roofline yes) than my car ... don't you have to have a specific license to drive a bus, or articulated vehicle?? So why not (so long as the lift is engineered) license 4wder's for that type of vehicle?? I'd much rather pay an extra on my rego (to a degree) every year for the benefit of being able to drive my rig - we pay at the pump now for petrol over driving a Mazda 3, so it is apparent we are happy to wear some form of additional cost to drive our cars and have our outdoors lifestyle. You with me? Haven't been on all day and typing this before I get back on a plane to Brisbane, but what I'm suggesting places the onus on the driver, raises additional revenue for the government (as that is essentially all they are about), and dramatically reduces the costs associated with "trying" to police compliance - I'd rather coppers dealing with ... I dunno ... Crimes!! than worrying about pulling a tape measure out and enforcing vehicle 'height' compliance. I'm not giving up my 4" lift without a fight - simple as that. You've all seen photos of my rig (or seen it first hand) and please explain to me how it is potentially illegal when every single item on it is better than the original equipment - and safer!!!!
Rant over - boarding now!! lmao
I agree with you 100% Bigrig. But unfortunately it's the do-gooders that have control atm. & do-gooders seem to have no common sense. My rig is 100% cert & legal,well in NSW anyways & there's still people out there that want to shoot me & others like me down for just wanting to get out & about on some of the more extreme tracks. As far as bigger tyred & lifted rigs wrecking the tracks that's total nonsense. It's the irresponsible peanut behind the wheel that causes that. Some of the tracks that I drive would not be able to be done in something with a 2" lift & the track was that way from the start not been chewed into that from mine or my mates bigger rigs running it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
I think it comes down to a lot don't like the handling characteristics of rigs with big lifts n'tyres so they think if they can't or don't want it no one else should be able to. In the end we are all into the same thing 4wding, either it be touring,mild tracks or those tracks from hell so why the hell do they need to feel they have to shoot down the big rig brigade.
In what ever thing your into you are going to get that certain element that ruins it for everyone else.
Oh yea bigrig we are still getting my mates gu up & running probably won't be finished till end of july/august but its getting a fresh td42 big turbo,37's 4.6's 6" lift lockers front & rear & all the other usual stuff so we should have a good time when we hit cruiser park.
Cheers Jono.
I see what you mean now but that would be impossible as emissions would kill us to start with. then there's air bags & the list go's on. Hence the NCOP if every state was to adopt this you could then drive all over Australia without fear of getting a defect in another state.Quote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
Sorry Scotty I disagree with you on this one, regardless if someone have passed a test, doesn't mean they can drive. Probable 50% of licensed drivers on the road here should have there license taken back of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
So does this mean someone that drives a "normal" car should also need 2 pass a license for the particular car they drive????. I understand that when you lift the 4b it changes the center of gravity / handling etc.... but why do i need another license 2 drive a 4wd raised or standard for that matter as it is higher standard than a "normal" car.
I have a car, heavy rigid ( HR in NSW ) and bike license, doesn't mean i can drive or ride *L*
I certainly don't want 2 pay more, We already pay extra for the benifit of driving our rigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
Sorry end of my rant
Understood mate - but you missed my point I think. I meant there has to be a better way to police/authorise/license than blanket prohibition of anything over 50mm. There are places that are listed as gazetted roads in this country where 50mm (either tyres, suspension or a combination of both) won't get you through ... and there are cars (using mine as an example here) that have 5"'s with tyres and suspension over original height that are now safer, stronger and better to drive than when they were stock - AND they don't look like comp trucks!! All I'm getting at is there has to be a better solution than a blanket policy on "height" - I could have a car that meets that requirement, yet have bought and imported dodgy brothers suspension from overseas and fitted it myself - so the cops stop me now, but if I had that setup, I'd probably never get pinged!! (and yes I know, until an accident and insurance doesn't cover me ... blah, blah, blah ... lol).Quote:
Originally Posted by toddrhind
I just don't think common sense will prevail on this one, and if we don't act as one voice of reason, then don't worry about road closures because things like a serious trip to the cape etc will be things of the past ...
Be interesting to see what cornering speed The Stig could achieve in the Tank and in Silver (the latter a standard height GQ) on dry and wet blacktop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
maybe the license you propose BigRig, would reflect competency achieved on blacktop
Hahaha ... I'd let the Stig take mine around - that'd be a hoot!! And in all honesty, I reckon mine would handle better ... I'd just put the short sway bar pins on for "sports mode"!!! lmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Silver
I dont drive a Lifted Patrol and never have but I can see for certain types of 4 Wheel Driving a Lift would be quite beneficial if not necessary. The whole purpose of me raising this question was to bring to the attention of members the Law in respect of Lifted Vehicles and repercussions of that law on Insurance Claims and Road infringements. If you are driving a vehicle which is not covered by Insurance and cause an accident it could bankrupt you . I am having trouble finding out what the actual Law is in Victoria as Vic Roads have several Documents on their site with different versions. No body can tell me whether Victoria has adopted the ADR's
I support all uses of 4 Wheel Driving as long as it is legal but we need to know with certainity what those Laws are.
Would be fun, wouldn't it! Silver has standard height Old Man Emu springs and fairly new Old Man Emu shocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
100% agree mate - QLD is still governed by the 'Modifications Guidelines' and under that ruling, my lift is fine and my tyres (33's which most of us have) are 10mm above the 15mm increase limit - a risk I'm willing to take. By the way, the missus crashed tank last year (minor) and I had no grief from the insurer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Let's write in and suggest it!! lmao ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Just to complete the hijack hahaha Loveday has time keepin on the race and drag tracks who needs the stig hahahahahhahahahQuote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
g`day guys
i think all the time we have split state govts across the states you will never get it regulated
not vehicles, but..... if i want to bring any of my firearms over your way i have to get a ok from vic , and from nsw , and from qld
not bad for across the board...... UNIFORM FIREARM REGULATIONS across the country try wa what a bunch of tossers we have the strickest laws across the country
so i dont think we would have a snow balls chance in hell, of having the same regulations for our 4x4`s across Australia
maybe we get rid of the governments all together and NISSANPATROL.com.au runs this wonerful land of ours lol
Oh dear ... what have we started?!! lmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
Here here!! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by nowoolies
Can I be the diplomatic relations minister?? lmao
well if that dont get things rollin nothing`s gunna work ...roflmfaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bigrig
last time I checked - at the beginning of the year - I could take my long arms to NSW, and mate is bringing his today from Vic, without any additional paper work.
Not sure about handguns as don't have any.
yeah, uniformity would be good I guess - two levels of gov not three - but do we really want Bob Brown running the whole country??? :-)
There goes your Insurance even if you are bog standard off the Showroom floor unless you have a Motor Sport Policy. (not bagging it just saying is all).Quote:
Originally Posted by growlers71gq
ADR's are law across all states it is the continual toing and froing of a NCOP for modifications that causes all the confusion. It will probably always be that way because Australia is a geographically diverse Commonwealth and not a single Entity so what is desireable mod in one 'area', say Tassie can be detrimental in another say, W.A.
Bottom line of that is that most of that legislation is to protect the 99% from the 1%
I have no problem with 33's and 2 inch lift as a maximum and, yes, as it stands that is marginally on the side of illegal in most instrumentalities but mermaids and coppers don't care too much over a few mm's unless you want to carry on like an rrse.
35's and 4 inch or more I do have a problem with in the general sense. I should add at this point my prev truck was those specs so feel I have at least some balance on the perspective.
Many of the problems aren't out in the Scrub it is on the public highways and byways. The road infrastructure, traffic laws, advisory's etc are not designed or constructed for Trucks modified to that extent or more and Joe Public doesn't know or chooses to ignore that a truck with 35'or 37's is harder and takes longer to stop than a bog truck.
Now, I am not about to get into any argument over brakeing efforts versus torque moments versus biasing changes versus vehicle stability etc etc
Bottom line of that is the legislation is to protect the 1% from the 99%
One thing I do agree with is tell your Insurer EVERYTHING you have, added/mod'd on your truck. If they won't insure you initially then you can be assured that they will be 100% guaranteed to drop you like a snotty rag if you don't tell them and then have a major claim... so why give them your money for nothing.
Bottom line find an Insurer who will accept your "risk" . I have had no issues with getting highly modified trucks accepted by TCIS (I believe Shannons and 1 or 2 others are good as well) and the only common exemption across all the Insurers I canvassed is 'no coverage if you are participating in any form of timed events'.
As ET said, as I have his Q and he has my U (I up graded), as soon as I told my insurance company about the 4" lift and 35's they dumped me very quick, I can understand their concerns as it is illegal here is WA to run anything over 33's and a 50mm suspension/body lift.Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
There are a few companies in Australia that will insure mods to this extent but 35's and 4" lift is the maximum they will insure, the insurance issue was discussed a while ago, started by Kat...... here is the link http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...-Car-Insurance we made it sticky in case this issue was raised again.
As for timed events, ET is correct as usual, participating in any off road events will void your insurance quicker than you can say " tree, look out".
first target hahahahahahahaha.....BOOM!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Don't tell them!! The dirt road on the way in is extremely treacherous if ya know what I mean! Notice how the insurance companies failed to tell queenslanders about flood insuranceQuote:
Originally Posted by The Dogman
Hey guys The Qld transport have just changed the rules last month apparently GQ's r not legal with 33inch tyres the max allowed is 31inch not sure where this has bin documented git it from a reliable source go the Tax revenue collectors who drive Transport & Police Cars this whole situation is bullsh?t
If u smoke illegal drugs & get caught your fault but if u buy Legally a Suspension Mod or large tyres & fit them u r going 2 contribute 2 the Government Tax Collections.
I ? why is it legal 4 suspension & tyre shops 2 sell stuff but its Illegal to use the same????
& Then we have the Insurance Cos who r happy 2 wipe your cover if u r in an accident but very happy 2 take your money I know this has bin said b4 but it SH?TS me
No vehicle is allowed to go bigger than 25mm in height than original wheels in most states, so if your car came stock with 29.7inch wheels, like mine, you can't run anything bigger than 31.7inches for road legal purposes. That's why I have two sets of tyres. Set for mud and a set for road
Also it's legal for them to sell bigger tyres because some vehicles come with bigger tyres stock, they're not responsible for keeping your car road legal although morally they should inform you if it may void your insurance.
the spill i was given was that if you t-bone some one on the road with all that lift and the tyres, your winch bar is coming through there window at head level.
i can see the point, most trucks still have the bumber or roo bar down low but its still a pain.
I can't really put any merit in that rusty because if the authorities take that tack doesn't that group trucks into that category anyway? I saw a Ford F650 (Google Image it, gigantic) with rego near my place and that thing is the size of a removalist truck, how is that thing more road legal than a GQ with 6 inch suspension lift and 4 inch body ( I realise this is ridiculous, I'm being dramatic) because I'd still rather be hit by the GQ.
I can understand there has to be a point when they draw a line in the sand and say we deem this to be too big but 2 inch total body or suspension lift and 1 inch on tyres without spending money hand over fist on the engineering is a pain in the arse.
Would be good if we could have 4 inch lift and 2 inches on tyres. Would make most peoples fourbies road legal too.