Who has changed there radiators due to upgraded pump and turbo ?
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Who has changed there radiators due to upgraded pump and turbo ?
This is @mudski "s favourite topic.
I'm sure he will put his input ...
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G’day FP mate!
For ease of answers from blokes with similar trucks to help you.
Which beast (GU/GQ)? (Model-Ute/Wagon/SWB) ? Donk? Pump? Turbo? Intercooler plans mate?
For example a top mate is running a lighter Tare GQTD42Ti wagon with BorgWarner6758 via a beaut 12mm built pump through a front mount WRX Intercooler tuned to all rounder perfection.
His cooling system I believe is 99% stock Nissan and only rising to very manageable IMO expectated temps of 95-105C with say 2.5T hauling behind up quite descent hills, otherwise unladen flat cruises to an 85C max in moderate ambient temps. (EGT’s incredibly always the lowest ever heard of driving in convoy radio comparisons)
Cooling system mods IMHO are best started at a base line of ‘stock’ and then tweak only one change at a time whilst recording. Sometimes we have to go back two steps to go forward the right one as so many same vehicles are different, including tunes/weight/bullbar many variables etc etc......
I’ve personally spent a small fortune over some 20+ years cooling V8 modded 4bys and only now realising that most of it was in shiny catalogue wanted not needed vain :-)
FWIW: Performance custom full aluminum radiators although very effective at shedding heat do tend to crap themselves on Aussie corrugations quite quickly found :-(
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I’ve gone from a cheap aftermarket oem copy to and oem radiator, then a wizz bang 3 core copper brass job and back to a Koyorad oem style rad and and I found zero difference. Copper brass rads are much stronger than the alloy type but don’t have the heat dissipation abilities of an alloy rad so they are made with larger cores to try to overcome this. The alloy rad don’t have the strength.
So if your ride doesn’t have cooling issues I would probably go the copper brass rad purely for reliability.
I haven’t tried a PWR rad, but I have read that some people think they are no better than the stock oem rad. I think this case would vary between vehicle and setup.
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Same here I've got GQ TD with borg Warner turbo ufi 12mm pump, safari front mount intercooler and a set of spotties & high mount up front. Just have the factory gauge and the vast majority of the time is under half on the gauge but will go up to 2/3 in heat towing and pushing it up big hills, still think this is under 100 degrees comparing it to other gq gauges with an aftermarket one also so don't really worry too much. Cooling system is 100 factory with radiator a few years old and brand new water pump.
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Ok here is the info I have been wanting to take my cooling system apart my self so I knew what had been done to it, check on the condition of the radiator give it a good flush check out the thermostat put good coolant in it because I have not been realy happy with the cooling of it, I did not like how hot it got when I was under light to medium load around town, I cleaned out my viscous oil and put extra in but know I have been told it is running to cold around town on the flats so between 73 to 75 degrees and my manual says that the thermostat opens a 76 D and on a moderate climb 80 D, I have a 92 Gq Td42 loaded up with about 90% of camping gear and rtt 24/7 I have a high mount Denco with a standard 10 mm pump I have half of my PWR fmic set up but will not plumb it until my new turbo comes which will be a UFI 21L Td05 with a 3 inch dump and a 12 mm compensated 250 hp ip, I just wanted to save double handeling when the radiator was out when doing the ip
Here is the engineering and the total myth busted. The thermal conductivity of copper is 1.9 times that of aluminium. So if you have the same area of core with the same number of fins and the same temps inside the radiator as outside for two radiators travelling under identical circumstances, the copper core will out perform the aluminium. The aluminium jobbie is a con. The thermal conductivity of copper is 223 BTU/hr.ft2F and the thermal conductivity for aluminum is 118BTU/hr.ft2F, So if you want to see a tangible difference in radiator performance, increase the only variable in the formula and that is AREA. assuming the temperature stays the same. Increasing only the volume inside the radiator will delay the temperature rise, not reduce the ultimate temperature. Additionally the other uncontrolled variable is the temperature, so you could only drive in cooler temps rather than hot temps to ensure you keep the radiator temps cool. There is a further variable due to air velocity, however that still comes down to the ability of to transfer the heat across the material boundary from inside to outside.
So really, all our efforts will be in vain to a large degree if we dont increase the surface area , decrease power/energy into the system by way of heat or find another way to more effectively shed heat by convection or radiation. If by chance you have installed an aluminium radiator and had a positive outcome, there must have been a change within one of the variables above as there is simply no magic going on. In our case we are typically boosting HP, ie energy into the system, but also driving quicker, whilst leaving the surface area the same or in some way increasing the thermal transfer due to higher density of cores and fins.
I run a copper core and always will. If I wanted to increase the efficiency I will get it modified to add more cooling fins per inch and if possible increase the cores by way of row depth. I would also induce more cooling air thru the core, in my case by running both a mech fan on the engine side of the radiator and a high volume elec fan on the other side of the radiator. I cannot physically change the outside boundary dimensions of the radiator without significant mods, so these are simply the limits. Just my thoughts, hope it helps.
Remember, this is a closed system, so energy in = energy out. If the out is less than the in, the energy is transferred and manifests as retained heat.
As to 2, 3, 4, 5 core radiators, they generally are more effective because of the greater depth of core thru the radiator, not the volume, so greater core area for heat transfer. As an example, every single Chev diesel conversion suffers from overheating to some degree, and the solution rolled out is to put in a larger multi core radiator, which more or less works until the owner pushes the vehicle harder as its not getting as hot, then the energy load goes up and he is basically at the same spot he started at. So the message is to get the energy load down, get the load down by virtue of weight, speed and driving style or go bigger on the radiator. I run a copper 4 core, and fully expect to be upgrading to a 5 core or even 6 once I start putting more energy into the closed system.
Waterless coolants work in a different way in that they raise the boiling point and reduce the occurrence of air bubbles. Air is an insulator, hence is the enemy of heat transfer efficiency. Air is also erosive when working in the steam state, so raising the boiling point helps; thats why the radiator cap is there as pressure helps with elevated temp management and why the correctly working radiator cap is important.
Strange how you say Phil that copper is better than alloy for heat transfer. I reckon I have spoken to about six different radiator places and all of them said alloy was better for heat dissipation. We can’t argue with those figures you put up though.
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Mark, its a long way worse. Only thing I can think is that they all add an extra core row, which increases the dissipation area and that's how they get a comparable or slightly better claim, but you can see that by adding an extra row to a copper unit will be way better. I simply think its a sales gimmick. I have not looked at specific 'alloys of aluminium' so maybe there is some difference but I suspect it would be minor.
I'm not in the know, to be able to tell the difference at a science / physics / atom level whether copper dissipates heat better at car radiator application.
But...
Having a computer building and overclocking hobby since early teens, there is always one staple rule when it comes to air cooling heat sink fans.
A copper base with aluminum fins is always a go-to application (air cooled system), because it has been tested and proven.
Scientifically why? I don't know... But my understanding is that copper has a higher thermal conductivity than aluminum, and aluminum dissipates heat faster than copper. So airflow will remove heat from Ali faster than from copper? But Copper will conduct / spread heat across it's physical form faster than anything else?
Now, whether this applies to radiators, because there is a liquid form involved in the heat transfer process... *shrug*
The water cooling blocks in PC systems are usually Nickel. But sometimes, it is a copper plate with water galleries that run to a aluminium radiator in a closed loop water circuit...
Another example I know of is, some of our very old 66kV / 22kV transformers at work had copper windings, and brass casing, but it had very large aluminium external oil cooling fins / tanks ... Is that saying something? * shrug *
Again, how this if at all, would apply to car radiators? :confused:
Loving the insights guys, I am not saying anything ethere way but just an experience from one of the guys in my 4wd club he had a Gu I can not remember why he changed radiators but he put a bigger one in with no cowling probably for towing purposes but it was over heating he took it to a Nissan guy who said that you can not beat factory and that it was to big a radiators so he ordered a genuine Nissan rad with full cowling and he has towed with no problems since
Dont know Hodge'y but the first thing that comes to mind is that is simple to make aluminium extrusions as opposed to fabrication out of copper. Copper is far more difficult and more expensive to work with - maybe. From my understanding dissipation is just another way of saying conduction, just that conduction implies, incorrectly,a heat transfer in a positive direction, and dissipation in a negative direction. >Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
Found this company link below that appears inline with @PeeBee ‘s metallurgy knowledge.
“Copper is actually a better conductor of heat than aluminum.”
“If you could build a copper radiator the exact same way we make the aluminum ones, it would work better than the aluminum. It would also weigh about 90 pounds.”
https://www.dewitts.com/blogs/news/1...rs-cool-better
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