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If you haven`t done it already it might be time to plan that trip to Uluru if you want to climb the rock. I was there in 2012 but respected the traditional owners request not to climb it but it seems that that is what most people go there to do.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-0...form=hootsuite
Been a hot topic for a while , been there but didn't (couldn't ) climb although plenty did , if you look objectively at the issue and talk to any of the traditional owners they see it as someone walking over a grave and I can personally respect that .
Climbing the rock was not why we went there , on the other hand there are a lot of tracks that are becoming very expensive to get a permit for and some that it's virtually impossible and I think this is a bigger issue .
Uluru is not even the biggest rock in oz just another high priced tourist trap if you ask me .
About time too!
I too respected the Anangu people's request not to climb in 2009, but had previously climbed 'in ignorance' back in 2000.
There will be those who express their belief that as an Aussie they have the right to climb Uluru, & some who will express their ingrained hatred of indigenous Australians but I consider that the need to respect the right of the traditional owners to say what is & is not acceptable, ie. no longer a 'request', is important.
IMHO the delay of two years before implementing the decision should not be necessary but I guess it's a political decison.
"Closing the climb is not something to feel upset about but a cause for celebration."
Agree CuppaQuote:
Originally Posted by Cuppa
I was lucky enough to climb it in 2012 as well. Long and steep climb but well worth it, especially seeing the Olga’s from the top
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2017/11/9.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/11/10.jpg
................on the road
Yeah i climbed it in 98ish returned in 05ish and didn't climb. Yeah definatly respect wishes not too climb, can't remember if it was as discouraged when i did it but glad i got the opportunity i guess was pretty cool . . . Special place that's for sure. .
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this subject, and I will defend your right to yours.
Mine is this ...... I do not consider Aboriginals as "traditional owners" of this land. It has been acknowledged in the past by Aboriginal elders that the "Bradshaw rock paintings" were done by others long before them, and that they have no knowledge of their history or existence. How can you claim to be "traditional owners" and be acknowledged as such, if you were not the first people to populate this country?
The plane that I was in, when travelling to WA one year, happened to fly over Ayres Rock and was the only time that I decided to leave my camera behind.
While I partially agree, there is a point to make: just to be first somewhere doesn't mean it either. What was made by the nature should and shall not be claimed by anyone in terms of ownership. I find the whole idea preposterous.Quote:
Originally Posted by bazzaboy
While the concept of exploiting the surrounding for one's benefit might do in being the first there, e.g. flying to moon and mining some rocks there and bring them back to Earth means one might claim ownership of those rocks but not the Moon.....
Same can be said in regards to building one's dwelling on a land but actually being an owner of said land is completely wrong.
We as a society would do well to oppose this ludicrous idea of having individual or specific group ownership over the rocks, sands, rivers, forests (especially the ones we have not planted!)As a nation geo-politically speaking we are the beneficiaries of the place but that is it. We don't own this dirt no more then others did before us or after us.
So while the "first nations" groups might be able to claim some sort of moral acknowledgement in regards to the land use, they're not the owners nor can they be. This planet existed long before puny "homo erectus" or "home sapiens" species walked on it. Call me what you want but this sort of appropriation nonsense is exactly what is wrong with us as the species, always thinking that we can own something the nature has provided.
We are only permitted to use said land for limited time and as such should ensure that we do our utmost to preserve it in the best shape for the future generations.
I do see the point in limiting or prohibiting the ascend to Ayers Rock/Uluru (whatever ones's chooses to call it) for safety reasons and even then from the point of the first responders only as any rescues and or assistance there is done at the great peril and people are generally mostly stupid when it comes to behaving responsibly. Maybe there is a time the Darwinism is allowed to flourish.... stupid enough to climb it, then getting in to strife there, so be it you've choosen your destiny...
If the ban means that those ugly chains, rubbish and idiots won't be ruining the place then so be it.
Regards
of course people own land,don't we buy it and out a house on it?
To be more accurate, you do not own the land anyway, you just rent it for limited time aka 99 years... What you are buying is the right to use it as a place where you can build a dwelling, or in case of agriculture you work it or plant something or graze animals. You never own it in technical terms. You may pass on said rental or on sell it but you never own it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avo
As such that is why you can be evicted or the land re-purposed by the entity we as a society grant such privilege.....for a fee or reward of course.
Regards
so the government owns it...legally .......
I agree with the decision 100%... and the sooner those godawful ugly chains and poles come down the better.
I reckon the management council deserve some kudos for not implementing the ban wef immediately and allowing that grace period.
If it is on someones bucket list or if (as one of the Council Managers said today) people have already planned their trip with a climb as one of their objectives then that period is fair enough.
For the record I don't care who 'owns it' as IMHO it has an aura all its own and no-one will ever own it but the current management setup seems pretty fair enough to me.
Disclaimer - I'm talking specifically about Uluru and not that godawful Yulara Tourist trap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs
In Australia we own the land in perpetuity if it is sold as Freehold Land, which would account for most landsales. The government still retains the right to resume it if required and rights to minerals etc.
I think you may be thinking of Leasehold land which would generally be 99 years and is common in the ACT and for large pastoral leases.
https://www.austrade.gov.au/land-ten.../freehold-land
Back on topic, I don't agree with closing the climb at all, its a rock FFS. Culturally sensitive reasons, pffft, the usual crock of shit excuse the indigenous like to use. I get culturally sensitive when I catch them helping themselves to the contents of my car in the middle of the night. You've only got to go into any of the communities around these places to see for yourself how much respect the indigenous population have for the themselves or the land.
Many communities are as you say but many are not , and if you do some research or live in or around a community long enough you will gain a better understanding of what the problems are, 99% of which are caused by us thinking that a sixty thousand year old plus culture can conform to European ideals in a few hundred years or even at all .Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemc181
To have any understanding of the clash of cultures you have to open your eyes and ears to the way they have lived and their laws for thousands of years , when you do this you change your mind completely.
Just one example of the people you're talking about is the elder at Kakadu who was personally offered over a billion dollars to allow mining by a French company, they hounded him for years but he refused , how many European men would not have taken the money and run I know I would have .
Don't tar them all with the same brush and find out the reasons why some of them are the way they are .
As for locking up tracks and roads that pass thru some of there lands and increasing permits which are nearly impossible to get if at all I see that differently especially if it has no impact .
I don't need to do the research, I've spent long enough in communities to see for myself. We also have an aboriginal girl that lived with us for two years until recently, so we have a pretty good understanding of the culture. You've got your opinion and I've got mine, best leave it at that.
To be honest emotive political type threads like this usually drag up heaps of over the top comments from both sides , our sister site has been debating this for awhile and politics ,energy blah blah blah , sort of glad this one kept out of the sidelines and stuck to everything Patrols .
Another rock we can't climb - another track we can't drive - another river we can't cross - another paddock we can't camp in - another permit we need (at a cost of course) - another park we now need to pay to get into - another park we now need to pay to camp in (mind you, there are no facillities but the fees are more than a caravan park!) - another ferry we pay a fortune for to go 50 metres - another ballot system we have to register for to "maybe" be eligible to be allowed to pay a fortune to camp side by side in the bush while there is plenty of room just over the fence - another river campsite that is so crowded and "over used" because they have shut down everywhere else to camp - (please feel free to add to the list) -
Nothing surprising here - just inevitable. Makes me wonder where my grandkids will go 4wding, bushwalking, camping. Thank god for virtual reality!
Agree with a lot of your comments however the Users of these facilities do not help themselves by leaving the sites in a bloody mess .Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsGU
When you arrive at quite a number of Campsites now there is broken equipment and litter left for someone else to clean up plus partially uncovered Toilet Sites and in some cases totally uncovered Faeces . Bloody Disgusting
You are right Bob - but penalising everyone for the problems caused by a few idiots is not the way it should be done. The penalties for what some of these fools do should be huge. Large fines, confiscating vehicles - whatever it takes. If a few are made examples of it would make even the most stupid of them think twice. But when scarce resources are used to catch some of them, they are then let off by the courts - again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
But that issue is different from being excluded for other "reasons". Australia is being nibbled away a rock, a creek, a paddock, a track, a lake, a mountain etc, at a time and soon there won't be anywhere left for the type of recreation many of us like to do.
I climbed it in 1980 swam in one of the rock pools too.
no chains back then but couldve had a vending machine up the top.
This was one day before Azaria went missing.
Camped at the base of the rock as you could then my mate was a Ranger
drove from the the Rock to the Olgas the back way cause we could,
Someone is going to lose a lot of money.
Back in 1980 50 buses a day came and went, I suspect most to climb the rock.
Even went hunting with the local tribe, this was before the "take over"
Its sitting all wrong as it is. 2/3rd is still sitting in the dirt
All you see is the one end
Go Here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Mountain_(Victoria)
At this time it is still free to go there, free to camp there, you can climb it, and it's half as big again as Ayres Rock (and yes - it is a monolyth). But you better hurry - you never know when it will be locked up and cost you a months wages just to see it ..............
I've climbed it and would do so again. However it's their land they can choose to close it so be it though they shouldn't get a drop of government funding or money just like any other private land holder.
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Not far for you to go to pine mountain Bill , been near it but was working at the time so never got to explore it , great it's free and relatively unheard of also fantastic area in general .Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsGU
Yep - I have been there many times. Parks Vic (or whatever they are called this week) have done a great job setting up camp sites with drop toilets and putting in 4WD tracks. Also, from there, there are lots of options for 4 wheeling - (not far to Mt Pinnibar - go across the Upper Murray to the Tumba region - or the tracks around Lake Dartmouth, where I will be going next week - to mention only a few). And at this time anyway - it's all free. The only restrictions that apply are seasonal track closures.Quote:
Originally Posted by GQtdauto
Sorry to hijack the thread!
i climbed the rock back in 1979 and yes it was worth it
what a view
I did climb it and spend half a day at the top of the rock exploring it, but didn't do anything disrespectful towards traditional owners of the rock, including taking leaks on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VK2FMIA
I personally prefer to advise and request people not to climb it by the officers at the entry & allow people to decide, but it's the traditional owners call at the end of the day.
I would say just a few people screw it up for all others by doing crappy things there and have the audacity to put that on the web as well.
I hope they reverse the decision 'cos climbing Uluru is a 'religious' experience for me as it is for the traditional owners to not climb it.
Ultimately, we should respect their wishes.