Interesting test on post 2 micron fuel fiters

Just seen this on FB.
A pretty fool proof test which settles a lot of thoughts against post fuel filtering to 2 microns...

I think my mind is made up..

https://youtu.be/JYb4qzvvDZo

interesting ...... although he needs to breath and slow down a bit he has neerves lol

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Originally Posted by Makka

interesting ...... although he needs to breath and slow down a bit he has neerves lol

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He does lol..

Its not really conclusive....

It needs gauges (pressure and flow) post filter. They are only looking at pump suction. This will remain the same regardless of a restriction beyond it.

The pump will also compensate for the extra load hence return fuel stays the same. More load is being applied to the pump.

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

Its not really conclusive....

It needs gauges (pressure and flow) post filter. They are only looking at pump suction. This will remain the same regardless of a restriction beyond it.

The pump will also compensate for the extra load hence return fuel stays the same. More load is being applied to the pump.

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to me, regaurdless pump compensating for load to make up fuel flow, the vacume pre pump after the filters is what I was looking at..
If there was lots of restrictions in the filters the pump would be suckling like a whore to try and get the flow needed..

I guess that's why you pay for a quality filter..

Yes but you cant just look at pressure. Flow rates should considered first.

if you are useing bio i would use one if your useing quality fuel not needed really

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

Yes but you cant just look at pressure. Flow rates should considered first.

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Totally agree...

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Originally Posted by Makka

if you are useing bio i would use one if your useing quality fuel not needed really

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Yea for sure.. and around town not hard to get..
When your remote it's very unknown..

When I had the Stanadyne Fuel Manager with 5 Micron filter on my CRD it really degraded performance. I am not sure if it was the 5 micron filter or the 2+ meters of extra fuel hose to where it was installed (behind second battery). The engine really struggled with fuel starvation. Not much power. Hard to rev it quickly.

These guys are using a 2 micron Stanadyne filter. I do know they have a mounting bracket that places the filter just behind the OEM filter and only adds a few centimeters of extra fuel hose so maybe that would make it work. Otherwise, my experience was not positive with using a pre-filter on the CRD. I felt the extra resistance would kill the fuel pump early rather than protect it.

I had a 2 micron Fuel Manager on my CRD, about a foot away from main filter and had no issues at all with performance...

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...id=67507&stc=1http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...id=67508&stc=1

Hello guys,

I am running a 2 micron Racor filter (R445) before the OEM filter (CRD).

I have done an extensive evaluation of the advantages of having a second filter and the importance of 2 micron filter - these are not just forum talks but all from reliable sources (Donaldsons / Bosch etc.)

The filter is filtted 600k's ago and still going great. I also fitted a restriction indicator with WIF sensor.

I am not sure whether I am allowed to say this but on the other forum, there is a good discussion with all my points on a 2micron second filter.

some photos:

Attachment 67556

Attachment 67557

Attachment 67558

Attachment 67559

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

I am not sure whether I am allowed to say this but on the other forum, there is a good discussion with all my points on a 2micron second filter.

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Got a link 2 your post in that other forum?

I learned a lot along the way so please read all posts.

Cheers;


http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/zd30-...isited-323369/

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Hello guys,

I am running a 2 micron Racor filter (R445) before the OEM filter (CRD).

I have done an extensive evaluation of the advantages of having a second filter and the importance of 2 micron filter - these are not just forum talks but all from reliable sources (Donaldsons / Bosch etc.)

The filter is filtted 600k's ago and still going great. I also fitted a restriction indicator with WIF sensor.

I am not sure whether I am allowed to say this but on the other forum, there is a good discussion with all my points on a 2micron second filter.

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If you go to the other forum and go to your post and click "quote" then copy and paste your post from there straight up here it will be shown here in a quote box like it would if you were quoting here. A better option IMO

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

If you go to the other forum and go to your post and click "quote" then copy and paste your post from there straight up here it will be shown here in a quote box like it would if you were quoting here. A better option IMO

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It's about a five pages long thread and about 20 odd posts from me highlighting all the technical evidences of the advantages of the 2 micron filters.

I'll see what I can do to post all my posts here, when I get a chance.

I'll post all of my posts:

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

I know, I know.. This has been discussed in length but I am still trying to get hang of it (engineering background to blame).
This thread is for discussion and as a resource for anyone on the same dilemma.

Now so far these are my findings/thoughts:

My original thought was to include a 2 micron second filter with minimal headloss before the OEM filter.

The information I was able to find so far are:

Issue:
This will create additional stress on the pump as we are introducing additional restriction on the line.

My View:
The pump must be design to certain % restriction on the OEM filter anyway, so if I replace the OEM filter with a brand new filter the headloss across the OEM filter must be negligible. Even after some time the OEM filter should not clogged as much as the aftermarket filter (first in line) which I can replace and often as I feel reasonable. This will eliminate/minimise the effect on the pump.

Issue:
2 Micron filters put significant restriction on the line - again stress in the pump because 2 micron filters clogged very quickly.

My View:
The OEM filter cannot be anymore than 3-4 microns, how can OEM filter not clogging quickly than a 2 micron filter and additing additional stress on the pump?

Issue:
Why not replacing the OEM filter with a 2 micron aftermarket.

My View:
The design of OEM filter is EXCELLENT - remember in my view - if you look at the filter it was designed as a complete unit with only the pipe connections the user has to make, I believe the significance of the level of filtration (in other words not introducing contaminants into the system) is well thought out.
If I am a little careful I can almost avoid any contaminants getting into the system - after the filter unit it is - but I am not sure how I can achieve this level of contaminant free filter replacement on a spin-on aftermarket fuel filter.

So after going through consideration of Additional filter --> replace OEM filter, I am back with additional filter, but only with a far less headloss across the filter and high flow rate.

I like someone arguing my points as far as it is productive and with proper background information or reasonable logic.

Thanks everyone.

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Has anyone read this before:

https://www.donaldson.com/content/da...hite-Paper.pdf

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Not really; another reference document taking the point on the industry

http://www.cleanprotectpolish.com.au...y_Check....pdf

I think regardless of the OEM filter used adding another filter will always benefit.

My point is the issue due to head loss created by the additional filter is far less serious than the issue with contaminant in the fuel itself.
Also the time taken for a pump failure due to additional head will be significantly more than the time taken for an injector damage due to contaminant.

Other thing to consider is most of the secondary filter kits are sold as 2um filters where this should be the actual filtration limit (ie OEM).
If the OEM's are actually 2um then we are adding another filter to the system to increase the efficiency anyway and also it really does not matter the additional filter is after or before the OEM (I go for before), but if the OEM is less than 2um then adding another 2um filter will improve the efficiency and remove contaminant to the required level (reason I go for before).

If the OEM filter is more than 2um then the system is doomed anyway.

Some other points from around the globe:

Filtering contamination
The precision components in today’s fuel systems require specially designed fuel filters. The critical
component is a super-fine filtration media that removes more than 98 percent of particles 2 microns
and larger. Quality filters feature:
ƒ

• Maximum engine performance and fuel economy
• ƒ Reduced exposure to abrasives
• ƒ Reduced wear on injectors and pumps
• ƒ Fewer fuel system adjustments
• ƒ Easier starting
• ƒ Longer filter life

KEEP IT CLEAN, AND KEEP RUNNING AT PEAK EFFICIENCY

• During storage and transfer of fuel
• ƒ Periodically drain and flush all fuel storage containers to remove any sediments.
• ƒ Maintain a regular schedule for draining machine fuel tanks: weekly for severely dusty
• conditions, every three months for normal conditions.

• ƒ Keep all fuel equipment clean.
• ƒ Maintain all hoses, gaskets and seals in your fuel storage and transfer equipment.
• ƒ Use line filters on all fuel transfer equipment.
• ƒ Never transfer fuel into open containers.
• ƒ Only purchase fuel from a reliable source, and demand periodic testing to ensure quality.
• ƒ Repair any fuel line leaks immediately.
• ƒ Keep fuel tank breathers open and functioning properly. Use an appropriate breather.
• ƒ Never operate a machine without the fuel cap.
• ƒ If a fuel cap does not seal properly, replace it immediately.

When changing filters
ƒ

• Follow the recommended filter change schedule.
• ƒ Keep filters packed in their original box until they are installed.
• ƒ Never pre-fill a new filter — doing so allows some fuel to bypass the filter altogether.
• ƒ Maximize filtration protection by using fuel filters of good quality.

When performing engine service
ƒ

• Clean debris from the engine compartment before removing filters and other fuel system
• components.
• ƒ On earthmoving equipment use a high pressure wash to blast built-up grime off the engine
• before “opening” the engine for repairs.
• ƒ Tightly cap or plug all openings during repairs, even if they are only needed for a few minutes.
• ƒ Clean reusable parts with solvents, using proper cleaning and drying methods.
• ƒ Keep new parts in their original package until needed.
• ƒ Never place components directly on the ground.
• ƒ Don’t reuse seals, replace them.
• ƒ Perform routine inspection of fuel line connections from the tank to the fuel pump.

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

For information and future reference:

Bosch CP3 pump information (particularly the maximum pressure difference across the filter prior to change)

http://www.boschdieselcenter.com.sg/...tem-cr_eng.pdf

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answer to a flow rate question, note CRD pump is actually CP1H rather than CP3

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Only an indication, may not be related to CP3 in Patrol CRD's

Inside The Bosch CP3 Injection Pump - Diesel Power Magazine

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Ron1n,
The flow rate is irrelevant to some extent, what I mean by this is I understand the fuel filter is to be sized to match the required fuel flow, but if the pressure is climbing up to 0.3bar after the filter then the engine/pump is not getting enough fuel. So it is VERY VERY important to monitor the pressure (this is the method of Bosch diagnostic as well).

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

I think I am up to something here:

You can add as many filters as you want to the system, the key point is not to worry about the flow rate but to monitor the pressure drop.

The best way to do this is to measure the pressure (vacuum) with the original system after the OEM filter first.
Install the second filter and monitor the vacuum and make sure it is reasonably within the limits (say 0.1bar or say 2psi more than the original).

YEAH..............!

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

OK.. here's the sketch explaining the proposed method installing a second filter.

How can this be practically configured?

1. First I would suggest to fit a (diesel) vacuum gauge after the OEM filter and monitor values, preferably before the recommended filter replacement interval.

2. Measure the vacuum just after the filter change - this will give us two things
- a compartive headloss across the filter on a clogged filter and
- the vacuum level with a clean filter

3. If the head difference is more than 0.3bar (according to Bosch) you have some serious issues with the fuel you are buying. You must consider changing the filter more often.

4. If the head difference is less than 0.3bar you can proceed with the second filter installation.

5. Measure the head just after second filter installation and make sure it is well below the 0.3bar compare to the measurement in 2 (OEM clean filter only measurement).

6. Continue monitoring the vacuum gauge and when the head reduce to more than 0.2 bar (for safety) from the clean OEM filter only measurement (2 above) then time to change the filter(s).

Note that the measurements are best taken at maximum safe load

Usual disclaimer: these are based on my findings on the internet and does not mean accurate. I take no responsibility for any damage in any form caused by these information. I put this here for the sole purpose of my own benefit and future reference.

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

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Attachment 67567

picture for the above post

Nice work mere I will have a read. We have a great vendor that sells the filter setups at a great price too.

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Next step:

Ford 7 3L Diesel Fuel Filter Vacuum Indicator Switch E8TZ 9S283 A Factory | eBay

As it will be fitted to a barbed 'T' after the genuine filter, I need to figure out the grounding for this unit :-?

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

This is one of the reasons I went with Racor second filter rather than water watch.

Why only watching for water when you can block AND watch...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_P7A3-i5nw

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That's it for now....

Not really a Bosch CRS1 - but I wouldn't think Delphi would be significantly different to Bosch given the similarity in Common Rail technology.

The interesting point to note is the OEM 2 micron filter rating.

https://www.delphiautoparts.com/en/t...-injector-how/

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Some good information on Common Rail faults and disgnosis on Issue 1 and 2.

Good read when you get some time:

https://www.delphiautoparts.com/en/techtalks/

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Originally Posted by MyGU8

Just a quick note on my view:

Looking at the OEM filter design, it is intended for easy hose mounting, by this - it is easy to first prime the filter to clean it up by letting about a couple of litres of diesel run through the outlet (before connecting the outlet hose) to make sure no contamination will enter into the high pressure side.

If the OEM filter is replaced by an aftermarket filter (where most if not all of the filters have permanenet hose fittings, it would be difficult to prime and clean the filter unit during filter replacement.

So my advice is to either keep the OEM filter or if you are intending to replace the OEM with aftermarket filter, include a quick release connection after the filter unit so at least a couple of litres of diesel can be filtererd prior to attaching the filter outlet hose.

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