A place to mount tow hook on GU

Hi

I have these pictures of the factory fitted Nissan roo bar and the fitted tow hook that i was told was a Factory tie down point. It does look very solid but I would like to mount another tow hook on the passenger side.

The problem is I cannot find a decent flat bit of space to mount it; one that would provide access for the bolt heads or nuts. The roo bar frame underneath has angular section which at best would mean the hook would be acted on at an angle (we probably never really pull straight anyway). My best spot in on the front near the number plate and where my future winch is gonna go ;). Most spots to fit the hook seem very close to the edge of the metal plate/sheet or squeezed in next to frame bolts etc.

If anyone has the same set up and some suggestions it would be a great help (any suggestions or idea's would be of help).

Thanks

J

Hi J

Have a look through this attachment. It may help you.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ecovery+points


Take care out there.

Ross
DX grunt & fellow Sandgroper

the hook in the 4th photo is similar to the one on the GQ.Y60, except that the GQ/Y60 is bolted on with three bolts. According to the factory manual, on the GQ it is not a tie down point. Dunno about the GU/Y61. Some aftermarket recovery points bolt into the same holes - on both sides of the chassis.

Whether you will get someone to snatch from it is another matter, it seems!! I would probably not snatch from it if your GU was severely bogged and no prep had been done - eg spade work :-) or if it showed obvious signs of damage - a bit difficult to find a crack in the hook when it is under the mud :-)

There is a wealth of chat on this site and others on recovery points, recovery hooks, snatch, bridles, equalisers etc etc - perhaps a search would provide the info you are looking for and more - DX Grunt's link is a good example.

That large hook is a recovery hook but not a tie down point. Many clubs use these with no problems, but all recovery equipment should suit the recovery.

Tim

in this pic you can see the factory threaded mounting holes in the chassis rail for another hook.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...4&d=1302607378

You will likely find that your hook will bolt straight up to that point.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...9&d=1302607923

Alternatively go to a wrecker and get a genuine Nissan recovery hook and bolt it up there.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...5&d=1302607378

All good mate.

So, you would use these hooks instead of those flat steel plates you can get ? I was under the impression not many ppl would tow you out if you had those hooks ???

those hooks are acually the recovery points and where they shoould be connecting to pull you out

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Originally Posted by katwoman

So, you would use these hooks instead of those flat steel plates you can get ? I was under the impression not many ppl would tow you out if you had those hooks ???

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Hey Kat,

on a GQ Nissan made the error of integrating the tie down points parallel to the chassis at the base of the bull bar and many believe that that is a recovery point and it is certainly not that. ON the GUs they fitted teh factory hook that you see in those pics. Its a winner.

Not that there is a couple of holes in the chassis mount around the body mount that could be used as a tie down point.

Some of the GQs had the Nissan Hook fitted but not all.

The pic below is of the bracket built into the ARB / Nissan bar to hook the winch hook onto for storage when not in use.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2&d=1302607378

note the plate on the end of the hook that will help the strap to not fall off during the recovery.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...5&d=1302607378

the alternative is an OX Recovery plate found in the link that Ross put up that bolts to the side of the chassis

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ecovery+points

^^ Those will also bolt to pre-threaded holes in the chassis put there by Mr Nissan.

Sorry about the size of those pic?? i just used the links from above and that is what happened and i dont know how to fix it but you get the idea

TJM has some plates that bolt on for a range of vehicles.

Thanks DX and everyone.

I was a little concerned at having to drill holes in under-body parts of the roo bar as this would leave only about 10-15mm of metal from the edge where hook would be mounted. The lowest bolt for the roobar (marked A) does fit the 3/4 inch bolt for the tow hook. But drilling the other hole as shown here means drilling through the edge of the frame mount and the nut would not sit on flush metal.

I had been reading up on a number of posts about tie down points and hooks recently. I had bought the tow hook pictured as I had this on the Hi-Lux we first had and it worked well. The bolt on plates pictured in the other thread look good for use with shackles etc must look in to them.

The two holes in frame in the second photo are too small and are about 20cm behind the base of the radiator mount. I would want to be in front of everything when cable and straps are swinging around.

The Nissan mounted hook does look very solid and better bolts than the 10,000 lb "rated" hook I am (was) going to mount. Problem is the lack of retainer clip to stop straps etc falling off.
I like the bridle idea from other posts and would want to remove the factory hook if I can find a replacement.

Thanks for the ideas guys

bit lost in those photos with B and A but if it is where I think it is, that is more or less the same spot as the tie down point on the GQ. There should be some factory holes on the other chassis rail, equivalent to where the factory hook is on the first chassis rail

Some of the after market plates have holes drilled to take hooks like your black one pictured, as well as a bigger hole for shackles.

I'm also looking for a pair of aftermarket front recovery plates to fit my '06 GU. However they seem to be sold to fit series X model GU's (1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6). Trouble is it seem ridiculously difficult to confirm which series I have. I have trawled the forums unsuccessfully (I think I have a series 4 - but as yet no 100% confirmation). Our local dealers whom I provided my VIN number to were unable to tell me. They have now emailed Nissan & awaiting their reply. I am hoping I can get both a driver & passenger side plate to fit. At present it just has one of the factory hooks as in some of the photos here. It looks as though it's tubular - doesn't inspire confidence that it would be strong enough to snatch me out of a bog.

Cuppa

Now I'm confused. My GU has that thick hook thingy, so if I just get another one of them or just one steel plate recovery point for the left, thats ok ?

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Originally Posted by katwoman

Now I'm confused. My GU has that thick hook thingy, so if I just get another one of them or just one steel plate recovery point for the left, thats ok ?

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Yes Kat, get another hook like the one you have, and under your chasis on the other side you will, with help of artificial light, find two holes with no bolts that will need cleaning out. Now you will also needrated high tensile bolts to go in those holes. I suggest going to wrecker and looking for a complete hook and bolts on a troll like yours, that has not had front damage, and get from that. At least the you will have correct rating, size and thread bolts, even if you feel safer buying new hook.

Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I'm also looking for a pair of aftermarket front recovery plates to fit my '06 GU. However they seem to be sold to fit series X model GU's (1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6). Trouble is it seem ridiculously difficult to confirm which series I have. I have trawled the forums unsuccessfully (I think I have a series 4 - but as yet no 100% confirmation). Our local dealers whom I provided my VIN number to were unable to tell me. They have now emailed Nissan & awaiting their reply. I am hoping I can get both a driver & passenger side plate to fit. At present it just has one of the factory hooks as in some of the photos here. It looks as though it's tubular - doesn't inspire confidence that it would be strong enough to snatch me out of a bog.

Cuppa

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This is what’s on the undercarriage of DX grunt

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ripprep002.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ripprep001.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ypoints002.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...pcradle002.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...ypoints001.jpg

As I have stated in a few posts, I won't be hitching you up if you have that 'factory hook' I believe it's for tie downs only and not recovery. It may look safe, and could be safe, but IMHO, I don't trust it. I got my paired front recovery points from an ARB distributor in Mandurah WA and am very happy with them and confident that I can tow or be towed safely using them. They also come with all the nuts 'n bolts 'n washers, AND instructions. lol


Ross

Everyone participating in a recovery obviously has to be happy with the set up, as the consequences of things going awry are severe.

Interestingly this is what the Nissan GR Y61 factory manual has to say about the front hook under discussion, and the rear loop above the step:

TOWING HOOKS
The towing hooks are provided only for emergency.
+ Use the towing hooks only, not other parts of the vehicle. Otherwise, the vehicle body will be damaged.
+ Use the towing hooks only to free a vehicle stuck in sand,snow, mud, etc. Never tow the vehicle for long distances using only the towing hooks.
+ The towing hook is under tremendous force when used to freea stuck vehicle. Always pull the cable straight out from the front or rear of the vehicle. Never pull on the hook at a sideways angle.

This info is from page GI-42. The picture looks like what we all call a GU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver

Everyone participating in a recovery obviously has to be happy with the set up, as the consequences of things going awry are severe.

Interestingly this is what the Nissan GR Y61 factory manual has to say about the front hook under discussion, and the rear loop above the step:

TOWING HOOKS
The towing hooks are provided only for emergency.
+ Use the towing hooks only, not other parts of the vehicle. Otherwise, the vehicle body will be damaged.
+ Use the towing hooks only to free a vehicle stuck in sand,snow, mud, etc. Never tow the vehicle for long distances using only the towing hooks.
+ The towing hook is under tremendous force when used to freea stuck vehicle. Always pull the cable straight out from the front or rear of the vehicle. Never pull on the hook at a sideways angle.

This info is from page GI-42. The picture looks like what we all call a GU.

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Thanks for the info, Silver. You're perfectly right. The towing and towed vehicle drivers, have to be satisfied on all aspects of the tow.
I would be interested to see what Mr Nissan's definition is of an 'emergency'. To me, going out wheeling every weekend is a pre-determined activity, not an emergency.

Off my soapbox now. lol. Thanks for listening.

Ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DX grunt

This is what's on the undercarriage of DX grunt

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Hi Ross. I've got an ARB catalogue in front of me, but no recovery plates like those in it. Any chance you can ask questions of your supplier for me next time you have contact?

Cuppa

Didn't see your soap box Ross, all seems very friendly and informative to me.

It isn't clear to me what Nissan mean by 'free a vehicle' and 'tow'. It does read a bit like a snatch recovery, but they do say 'cable' which to me = winch. It would be great if they said something like 'We can't guarantee it because we have no control over how you use it, but if you pull in a straightish line with an x000 kg strap all should be good.'

I've seen pictures on line of a GQ chassis that looked a bit sad, from a vehicle in Dubai. Heavy 30 degrees off line sideways snatch, among other issues. Factory hook stayed attached, with folding damage to the chassis, but whatever he had bolted to the other chassis rail did not. He acknowledged the other side was dodgy before the recovery, and it wasn't clear to me that he didn't have two goes, one on each rail, rather than use an equaliser.

I've personally seen a metal tow rope hook penetrate a Hilux tailgate at the Southern end of Fraser Island back in '94. That's what comes of bogging a troopy to the chassis in the surf, wrapping a k-mart braided tow rope around a spring hanger, and then hooking the end of the tow rope onto a snatch strap. I wouldn't have done it. I made sure my family and self were well clear. Both drivers were (initially) happy and one was very lucky. (and my MQ was safely out of range!!)


At the end of the day I think it comes down to the strength of the straps, what they are used for, and how. Sometimes they are used when a winch might be more appropriate? Then you have to ask what is the role of the more heavily rated straps for the likes of Patrols and Tojos. I can see how a 10, 12 or 15 tonner would come in handy with one of those 4wd trucks that are becoming more popular.

I'd rather have a strap or bridle fail, if anything has to fail, than a chunk of metal that might get launched. Then there are those who go for hooks that straighten rather than break, rather than hooks that break or hooks or plates that come loose because the bolts or chassis fail. I linked a page elsewhere here on some testing done in Kiwiland in 2004 that identified a hook that straightened at about the right rating. It also had some fascinating things to say about pintle hooks in place of that loop on the rear step. Not to mention a tow ball that faired surprisingly well!!

I have two Outback Ideas recovery plates ($130 the pair) from TJM, one of which will be fitted on the left hand side rail with grade 8 bolts and maybe a plate on the inside of the chassis. TJM did not think a plate necessary. I think I'll leave my factory GQ hook. I have an 8 tonne breaking strain webbing equaliser, and 8 tonne snatch strap. The logic is that the hook shouldn't be working too hard with the equaliser (enclosed angle > 45 degrees), and if it is a dodgy as some think, then it becomes the weak link and all will still be connected for a time to the left hand chassis rail by the plate. Then again, might fit the other plate.

My webbing equaliser replaces the 10mm rated Serafini chain I used to use on my MQ along with paired recovery loops at each end sourced from Bedford trucks and fitted with brackets fabricated by boiler maker mates. I don't use the chain any more, because I am now aware of the webbing option, and I don't want almost 3 metres of 10mm chain on the loose, not to mention that the webbing is also heaps lighter.

All musings on my part with absolutely no engineering qualifications :-) Anyway, how deep can I get with all terrain tyres!!!

If I may butt in without offending anyone... and this is a general observation not directed at any specific poster

Don't be confusing the terms "snatch" "tow" and "recovery". Reading thru the posts the term recovery obviously means different things to different people

Not every recovery is a snatch, indeed that should be the last resort. The factory Recovery Points (the loop at the rear and the hook/s on the front) are IMHO and most importantly the manufacturer, approved points for Towing and Cable Recovery. When Nissan mention recovery they are referring to "tow" and the manuals do not make mention of or approve the Snatch Method of recovery from these points which is why people choose to fit recovery plates etc.

I and a lot of others in my Club have used the factory approved points on many occasions but never EVER for a Snatch (that I have seen anyway). Not saying that is right, not saying that is wrong, just saying the Manuf says they can be used for towing and recovery

Bottom line still remains "if you are unhappy then don't"

exactly, if stuck, one has to make sure that the unsticker is happy with the attachment point. And the stuck has to be happy that they are not going to wear the unsticker's attachment point.

Most people seem happy with the pin in the hitch receiver or the various bars and hooks that fit in it, so the front points are the focus. There are different views about the factory hooks, so regardless of my personal view on the factory hook, I am taking the opportunity while fitting a second point, to also provide an alternative that everyone seems happy with. :-)

I have a personal view about those 45000 kg hooks used with other gear fail rated to 8 tonnes or greater eg the usually recommended snatch strap. The wording on the hook packaging and the hook looks like a fail rating rather than a safe working load, and the ones I have seen certainly do not say it is a SWL. To a degree this is borne out by the testing done in Kiwiland that I linked in the Recovery Point thread. I suspect most if not all are cast as cheaply as possible who knows where. Yet plenty of people use them. There is provision to bolt them to recovery plates - yours Ross, and mine.

As for snatching as a last resort, I have only ever used them in sand, with or without a bit of sand excavating as the circumstances seem to dictate. It might be a last resort for me in the sense of first asking 'Is it in 4wd?' 'Are your hubs locked?' (often the answer is oops or how do I check?) 'Are you happy with your tyre pressure?' 'Now we have sorted that, how about we move a bit of sand and give it a push (with people power)' and then 'OK, where is your strap and where do you think it should be attached?' (to which the answer is sometimes a variation of 'I have been meaning to get one of those....')

Very informative discussion indeed.

Can anybody tell me, what would be the strength difference between the Nissan factory stock thick curved metal hook vs the steel plate with holes to attach the shakle on the front end of My Y61 pickup. Although I do carry a snatch strap (as final back-up), luckily have never had to use it. Most recoveries that I have done or have been pulled out of are not complete bog downs luckily. Mostly have been using a heavy duty tow straps on the curved hook to pull out with occasional moderate tugs. So for future reference, it may be better to know which one is stronger or designed for more load. Also do have a factory rear pintle hook as well, no rating witten on it. Anyone has any ideas what would be rough safe weight limits for these?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nnn

Very informative discussion indeed.

Can anybody tell me, what would be the strength difference between the Nissan factory stock thick curved metal hook vs the steel plate with holes to attach the shakle on the front end of My Y61 pickup. Although I do carry a snatch strap (as final back-up), luckily have never had to use it. Most recoveries that I have done or have been pulled out of are not complete bog downs luckily. Mostly have been using a heavy duty tow straps on the curved hook to pull out with occasional moderate tugs. So for future reference, it may be better to know which one is stronger or designed for more load. Also do have a factory rear pintle hook as well, no rating witten on it. Anyone has any ideas what would be rough safe weight limits for these?

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have a look at the Kiwi link under the recovery point thread, and keep in mind that the test rig was probably applying a steady load

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

Hi Ross. I've got an ARB catalogue in front of me, but no recovery plates like those in it. Any chance you can ask questions of your supplier for me next time you have contact?

Cuppa

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I'll get back to ya on the weekend. I kept my old 'hook' and the instructions for the new set up. It's in my shed 'somewhere'. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver

have a look at the Kiwi link under the recovery point thread, and keep in mind that the test rig was probably applying a steady load

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Thnx, looked up and I presume you were talking about following link....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewto...051e0d27cc4221

unfortunately the link does not seem to work for me at the moment! Tried earlier and just now again without success!

Outers website has been up and down more than NAB lately

The site has gone down hill in regards to stability a lot over the past 8 years of my membership. Also alot of the good old members have left and I don't know any of the new (past few years) members.

If this is a breach of a rule unknown to me, I apologise in advance, however here is the info from the outerlimits site, from 2004, the Outer Limits member wrote:

.... I carried out several hook tests on a test rig.
The bighorn hook with 10mm bolts snaps the bolts around 5 tonne
Drilled out to 12 mm, 8.8 bolts still fail but 10.9s hold till the hook breaks @ 8.18 tonnes.
The Black Rat Black hook snapped around 5 Tonne
The Black Rat Chrome hook straightened around 5 Tonne
The Supa Cheap Ridge Rider Black hook snapped around 8 Tonne
The Bush Ranger Black hook straightened around 5 Tonne
3/4 shank towball snapped around 8 Tonne
Pintle Hook/Nato Coupling stripped the 10mm mounting bolts ie Patrol, around 12 Tonne
Pintle Hook with 12mm 8.8 bolts stalled the test rig around 20 Tonne
The Snatchmaster hooks from Cookes straighten around 9.8 Tonne, this opens a new can of worms as the M12x1.75 bolts broke first.

Standard Toyota L/C hooks straighten @ 4.6 tonnes,
Hilux hooks however, by design, push the rope further away from the mounting plane of the bolts, causing the rear bolt to stretch and snap , then shearing the front bolt, 8.8 bolts failing @ 4.5 tonnes.

The Cookes hooks consistently have the highest rating straightening at arround 8 to 9 Tonnes but the bolts they supply are sometimes only 4.6 instead of 8.8 and both of these can let go before the hook straightens.
A Cookes hook with 1/2" grade 8 bolts is my answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nnn

Very informative discussion indeed.

Can anybody tell me, what would be the strength difference between the Nissan factory stock thick curved metal hook vs the steel plate with holes to attach the shakle on the front end of My Y61 pickup. Although I do carry a snatch strap (as final back-up), luckily have never had to use it. Most recoveries that I have done or have been pulled out of are not complete bog downs luckily. Mostly have been using a heavy duty tow straps on the curved hook to pull out with occasional moderate tugs. So for future reference, it may be better to know which one is stronger or designed for more load. Also do have a factory rear pintle hook as well, no rating witten on it. Anyone has any ideas what would be rough safe weight limits for these?

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the factory loop is not a pintle hook. A search on line should show a pic or two - or have a look at the back of all army vehicles and at least some Telstra off roaders. I don't think the ones that include a towball are strictly a pintle hook.

They used to come on some g60s in the good old bad old days - or maybe someone fitted one to the one I saw years ago :-)

i bought mine from Opposite Lock. they were $105 for the pair (GU4 onwards). I had to buy a extra pair of HT bolts as well (used the hook ones for one side), I needed to go to Coventry Fasteners for those, and they were $10 for the pair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silver

the factory loop is not a pintle hook. A search on line should show a pic or two - or have a look at the back of all army vehicles and at least some Telstra off roaders. I don't think the ones that include a towball are strictly a pintle hook.

They used to come on some g60s in the good old bad old days - or maybe someone fitted one to the one I saw years ago :-)

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Attaching mine and some other pix from the net (specs from some african countries as well as middle east I think). I think in this particular patrol configaration, only rear pintle hook was standard offer. There are no other hooks or plates on the rear. To put anything else I will have to drill new holes as the rear steel bumber as seen is pics has used all factory drilled holes. One can use same holes , but if I were to keep the bumper, than access would be restricted!

THanks Silver, I read that somewhere as well, I looked and looked for those test results, but I could not find it. You must have a better memory than me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nnn

Attaching mine and some other pix from the net (specs from some african countries as well as middle east I think). I think in this particular patrol configaration, only rear pintle hook was standard offer. There are no other hooks or plates on the rear. To put anything else I will have to drill new holes as the rear steel bumber as seen is pics has used all factory drilled holes. One can use same holes , but if I were to keep the bumper, than access would be restricted!

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that's a pintle hook. I'm not sure I recognise the body shape of the ute however :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by molongmick

THanks Silver, I read that somewhere as well, I looked and looked for those test results, but I could not find it. You must have a better memory than me.

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Only found it a couple of days ago Mick so memory wasn't such an issue for me :-)

Well, all this info has made the decision for me !! Stay out of the mud and I wont need to be recovered !!! Less confusion that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katwoman

Well, all this info has made the decision for me !! Stay out of the mud and I wont need to be recovered !!! Less confusion that way.

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I have been reading a lot about mud on the three word thread....... :-)

all the chassis steel and mouting points will damage if your really in there. even that nice big shiny tow hook will straighten. as always proceed with causion when recovering. my advise is to get more creative with the grinder and welder, add steel and use rated lifting eyelets instead of those bendy hook things. cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katwoman

Well, all this info has made the decision for me !! Stay out of the mud and I wont need to be recovered !!! Less confusion that way.

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Gotta have a play in the mud if ya get stuck at Loveday we'll get you out safely no worries

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havoc

all the chassis steel and mouting points will damage if your really in there. even that nice big shiny tow hook will straighten. as always proceed with causion when recovering. my advise is to get more creative with the grinder and welder, add steel and use rated lifting eyelets instead of those bendy hook things. cheers

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A hook that straightens rather than breaks or comes free because of bolt failure is probably a good thing if it straightens at the expected load.

I had a look at rated lifting eyelets, admittedly only one site, and I know that lifting safe working loads are very conservative, but what si2e and quality eyelet do you need for better than a strap with an 8000kg fail rating? Bearing in mind we don't want an eyelet and a shackle coming free?