GU 1998 TD42T rough idle and smoke

Hi to All,
I am 65 years, electrical/electronics profession. Always had my nose under my bonnets.
I have been a patrolman for 25 yrs. At present I drive a TD42T done 240000km so far. I have owned it for some 3 months.
Getting it ready for a trip towing a 24' van.
Hope someone out there in 4x4 land can assist with an issue I have with my TD42T.
Here is the problem. After having the engine off for 24hrs, starting the engine when cold, for the initial 10 odd seconds, the engine runs rough as if running on 4 cylinders and at the same time emits white smoke from the exhaust.
I have changed the 2 oil filters and air filter initially. Recently though, I also changed the fuel filter.
When I removed the fuel filter, I found it only half full of diesel fuel. I can only assume it may flow back into the fuel tank.
When I replaced the fuel filter, I pre-filled it with diesel before I fitted it and then pumped the hand-pump on the filter-top.
When I started the engine cold after the fuel filter replacement, I thought I had fixed my problem, but alas, not so as on the next start 24 odd hours later, rough idle and the white smoke was back but I think it was not as severe as before.
After leaving the car for 48 hrs and trying another start, I hand-pumped the fuel filter pump before I started the engine and the engine ran rough only for a matter of say 3 seconds before it settled to a even idle.
Well, what more can I say. Oh, had suggested to me to check the glow plugs and found the G-plugs to draw total of 46.2Amps. Further glow plug tests revealed all plugs draw the same amount of current, hence glow plugs in my view are ok.
Have not removed the main fuel tank. Patrol seems to run well once warmed up.
My question, can fuel drain back to the main tank from the filter ?
I don't believe the fuel can drain the other way, i.e. from filter through the injector pump.
Can see no obvious fuel leaks from front to rear.
Your input would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance.

The WOLF 12/7/2015

Thank you to NISSANPATROL.com for the opportunity to post.

There is a mod the TD blokes do to bypass a sensor.. maybe the cold start sensor? They unplug it and bridge the terminals and sorts it out.

Welcome to the forum mate.

welcome mate

Thank you re the welcome messages DYSONEST and DHUCK. Feel at home already.

Hi Softy, appreciate your response. Will give the COLD START SENSOR a go if I can find it. Do you know what type of sensor it is and where I can find it ?
I have a "Howsyagoin" manual on a disc, so will try to find the sensor there.
As I'm new to this site, took me a while to pickup my thread. But I did find it as you can tell.
Thanks to all who responded to my post.

Sounds like fuel is leaking back...

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

loosing fuel :
they are prone (the lift pump) to leaking back to the tank
I'm not sure if they are a repairable item or a replacement item, as I have not as yet had a problem......

with your glow plugs
did you take them out and clean them - or just test them in-situ............?

with the 4cyl running & white smoke
almost all TD42's have a problem with their oil getting to the top on initial startup - thats the rattles
if it is loosing fuel pressure (you have to prime the lift pump) not all the cyls will be getting fuel at the right pressure on startup -
depends on how many Kms on the clock as well - maybe Injectors are nearing their end.......??
the white smoke is only condensation - hence why only on cold start up
black smoke (usually under power) is un burnt diesel
grey smoke under power could be either oil is too thin (oil change needed) or Valve stem seals
grey smoke constantly - rings are shot

hopefully some of this may help you

cheers

BTW - welcome to the forum

Thank you Mudski and Bigcol for making the effort to reply.
Bigcol, I take it you mean the fuel pump in the injector pump assy when you talk of lift pump. I thought the fuel draing back to the tank would only go from the filter back to the tank. You are suggesting it may leak back via the injector pump, is that right?
My Patrol has done some 245000km, so I think the injectors are a possible cause of the smoke problem. Did some more checking today and found that with the Patrol stationary, and reving the engine by hand at the injector pump assy to around 1200rpm, I can detect an occasional miss, reving to 2000 and above the engine runs fine. Suspect injectors again, would you agree? Checked the glow plugs only electrically. Have not removed them, in fact did not know they could be cleaned. I'm not too savvy with the Diesels yet, always keen to learn.
Thanks so much to all of you who have replied. 14/7/2015

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roland the Wolf

Thank you Mudski and Bigcol for making the effort to reply.
Bigcol, I take it you mean the fuel pump in the injector pump assy when you talk of lift pump. I thought the fuel draing back to the tank would only go from the filter back to the tank. You are suggesting it may leak back via the injector pump, is that right?
the lift pump - is that thing on top of the filter that you had to "pump" to get fuel pressure up, old landcruisers had their lift pump on the side of the injector pumps, but not Nissans
so yes, it is draining back from the filter (lift pump) back to the tank......... NOT from the Injector pump

My Patrol has done some 245000km, so I think the injectors are a possible cause of the smoke problem.
the smoke - is it only when you first start up...... or after you have been driving, you can see it?????
the injectors face is like a flat surface, with a pin sticking out the middle - when the fuel goes through it - it sprays in a fine mist
when the injectors are old or have been baddly treated (eco fuel blends) that flat surface ends up having a "hollow" around the pin - the fuel then dribbles out, instead of misting
hopfully you understand what I am saying
Attachment 59805
Did some more checking today and found that with the Patrol stationary, and reving the engine by hand at the injector pump assy to around 1200rpm, I can detect an occasional miss,
fuel starvation - not enough fuel pressure from the pump to the injector pump - thats why when you rev higher, it is ok.......
reving to 2000 and above the engine runs fine. Suspect injectors again, would you agree?
Checked the glow plugs only electrically. Have not removed them, in fact did not know they could be cleaned.not sure on which type of Glow Plug you have in there (there is 2 or 3 types for the TD42 from memory)but I think you can take them out, and using 2000 or finer wet and dry, give them a very light clean, as they get covered with soot, this may help them. - I have only done this on Landcruisers (2H engine) so not even sure it can be done on Patrols
I'm not too savvy with the Diesels yet, always keen to learn.
Thanks so much to all of you who have replied. 14/7/2015

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hopefully you understand my ramblings

On top of the fuel filter mate is the lift pump. If this is shot, fuel could leak back toward the tank. As you have previously said, you had primed the filter and it started fine. This tells me the issue is there. Or there somewhere.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

G'day mate, welcome aboard

Hello ansd welcome to the forum, enjoy

Hi ALL, sorry for the delay in responding. Too busy. Just updating as to where I am at with my issue.
Had all injector serviced with new seats and pintails. Made a big difference to my problem but the rough idle and white smoke at cold start-up is not 100% cured, much better though.
With the Patrol stationary and bonnet up, I find the engine misses at revs 1500 to 2500rpm. Now when I disconnect the fuel "in" to the filter and connect a fuel tin suspended from the bonnet, thereby gravity feeding into the filter, I have NO more misses at the mentioned revs. My thought is that the injection pump is starving for fuel. Installing a pre-delivery pump could fix the problem but this may upset the internal workings of the injection pump.
I am open to suggestions before I delve head over heel into this issue.
Have not replaced the hand-pump at this point. I have a definite air pocket in the filter, i.e. fuel draining back to the tank. After a 24 hrs stand, before I start the engine I can pump about 4 hand-pumps before the air pocket appears to be filled.
Staring is fairly instant.
Another point I found is, when I rev the engine to say 2000rpm and let the throttle come back to idle position, the idle revs slowly drop back so far that after some 20 secs the engine will stall, but, but, if I then press the hand-pump 1-2 times before it stalls, , the engine comes back to normal idle .
Your thought, opinions and ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Roland the WOLF 17/8/2015

Have you checked the filter under the inlet banjo to the fuel pump?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...fuelfilter.jpg

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http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...website001.jpg

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Welcome mate, surely the best forum on the net.
If you need it, you can get it, if you want to know it, just ask it.
If you want to find it, go to the search bar for a universe of information.
Enjoy the sights and sounds of the greatest show on earth.

Hi ALL, thanks Nightjar for you efforts with the pics. YES, I was aware of the filter at the injection-pump fuel "IN". I actually fitted a new one and kept the old one as a spare. The original filter was ok and only had minor small bits collected.
Ordered a new Hand-pump assy. Will let you all know when I replace same and what difference if any it will make to my beast. Keeping my fingers crossed. I am eventually aiming to pull a 2Ton plus van around Australia and I will not leave until I am confident with the TD42T.
Now whilst I think of it, for you Gurus out there, is there any mod I can do to improve the TD42T performance. The only mod I have is a 3" exhaust on my TD42T. Im thinking intercooler. Is it worth considering. Im confident that I could fit it myself. Any other worthwhile mod ?
Thanks for your interest.
Roland the WOLF 18/8/2015

Oh one more thing. I would like to check the timing of the VE pump with the jig and dial gauge. Seeking brief instruction. I know that I have to remove the high pressure lines to the injectors from the VE pump and remove the bolt in the centre of the VE hi Press pump head, and then somehow the timing jig is fitted to the hi pressure pump head. and that the bit I don't yet get. Going by the manual on CD which I happen to have. I can do the forward and backward movement of the crank with ref to TDC. Just do not know how the dial gauge is fitted to the pump head. Any hits would be great, thankyou.
Roland the WOLF 18/8/2015

After reading through this thread my ‘diagnosis from afar’ is either the lift pump, which the replacement you have ordered will fix if that is the problem, or the line between the fuel tank & filter has a small leak..... hard to see, but letting in sufficient air for the line to drain back into the tank overnight. Sucking in air would also account for the miss you have observed. To be honest changing the line would have been the cheapest first line option & IMHO therefore the first thing to try.

Another way folk have dealt with not holding prime is to fit a one way valve into the fuel line. Our Nissan Civilian bus had one of these when I bought it, not sure why as once removed (as part of a fault finding exercise to find the source of air in fuel - giving symptoms of loss of power & heaps of white smoke) it held prime ok ..... AND gained another 10kph - turned out the one way valve was too small & restricting fuel flow at higher revs. (It turned out that the air getting in was the result of an intermittently sticking exhaust valve).

not sure what Turbo you have fitted - 1998 they were all N/A (Naturally Aspirated)
so if it has a Turbo - it is maybe after market
it will depend on how much Boost it is making as well

if you are quite handy, mechanically, have a look for a Factory Turbo & Intercooler from the wreckers, you dont want the Turbo, but the factory Intercooler with the brackets etc will be a shed load cheaper than a Cross Country Intercooler

it will help "cool" the air from the turbo (making it denser) helping to lower your EGT (Engine Gas Temperatures) going out the exhaust
lower temps, more efficiency, more power

Hi to you Cuppa & Bigcol. Thanks so much for your replies. What a great forum. Cuppa, I actually removed the Lift-pump blocked off the filter "IN" and connected a vacuum pump with gauge to the filter "OUT". Noted that the vacuum slowly leaked away. Hence my suspicion re the lift-pump. Interesting though your mentioning of the fuel line from tank to filter. Definitely no leaks visible. I have looked suspiciously at the rubber hoses attached to either end of the tank-to-filter fuel line, but as I said NO visible leaks. Have also thought of the one-way valve, but I often consider the fact that if the manufacturer did not fit it, hence it should not be required.
So if the lift-pump does not cure my problem, I will have to give the fuel line closer attention. Shall see.
Bigcol, yes, well it looks like a factory turbo, all appears to look very original. Now Im learning here Bigcol, is the BOOST, the pressure out from the turbo into the manifold ? I assume so. I take it, the EGT is the exhaust gas temp at the exhaust manifold. I hear some 4x4 people have a BOOST,EGT and other gauges fitted to enable monitoring what the turbo does. I think that sounds like a good idea, if I fitted some gauges to my beast. What are some necessary readings to keep monitoring. I commonly hear BOOST reading and exhaust temperature. Can you give me leg-up here, as to where the gauges are connected to get the various readings.
Now re the intercooler, I take your suggestion on board, thank you. There are different types of intercoolers are there not? Which one is the better? If Im going to go to the trouble of fitting one, I may as well fit a gem.
Anyhow, thanks again for all of your interests and assistance with my dilemma.
Will keep you all posted with my progress.
Roland the WOLF 19/8/2015

I will stay way from the lift pump problems, as I have not had any (yet ! ! !) so cannot help you
but - see below in RED

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roland the Wolf

Hi to you Cuppa & Bigcol. Thanks so much for your replies. What a great forum. Cuppa, I actually removed the Lift-pump blocked off the filter "IN" and connected a vacuum pump with gauge to the filter "OUT". Noted that the vacuum slowly leaked away. Hence my suspicion re the lift-pump. Interesting though your mentioning of the fuel line from tank to filter. Definitely no leaks visible. I have looked suspiciously at the rubber hoses attached to either end of the tank-to-filter fuel line, but as I said NO visible leaks. Have also thought of the one-way valve, but I often consider the fact that if the manufacturer did not fit it, hence it should not be required.
So if the lift-pump does not cure my problem, I will have to give the fuel line closer attention. Shall see.
Bigcol, yes, well it looks like a factory turbo, all appears to look very original. Now Im learning here Bigcol, is the BOOST, the pressure out from the turbo into the manifold ? I assume so. would really like a picture of under the bonnet if possible, like my car (1999 NA) I fitted a factory turbo
yes your Boost is the air pressure created by the turbo and feed into the inlet
I take it, the EGT is the exhaust gas temp at the exhaust manifold.usually fitted post Turbo, but some are fitted pre-turbo rare, but it happens sometimes
I hear some 4x4 people have a BOOST,EGT and other gauges fitted to enable monitoring what the turbo does. I think that sounds like a good idea, if I fitted some gauges to my beast. I work on the theory of "Pre warned is Prepared", I have Boost, EGT, Oil pressure, Water Temp, both batteries, cabin temp, under bonnet temp and Amps
What are some necessary readings to keep monitoring. I commonly hear BOOST reading and exhaust temperature. my turbo is set to 8lbs boost (factory setting)
at 100km per hour I have 5lbs boost and 250* EGT when NOT towing. When towing I have 8lbs boost and 300* EGT, going up hills it will sometimes reach 400-450*. never ever let it run up to 500-550* for too long - that will kill the bearings in the turbo
Can you give me leg-up here, as to where the gauges are connected to get the various readings. boost gauge is fitted just before the inlet, EGT probe is post turbo (after the turbo)
Now re the intercooler, I take your suggestion on board, thank you. There are different types of intercoolers are there not? Which one is the better? If Im going to go to the trouble of fitting one, I may as well fit a gem.
this can, and does open a can of worms..........
some have brought the Crosscountry Intercoolers and are happy with them - I cannot see the value of the cost V's the gain - around $2500 delivered (eventually, apparently, 14 weeks is the longest I have heard of someone waiting for theirs)
I have the Factory standard Intercooler off a 2006 - it works, I'm happy - and was cheaper than the cross country
Anyhow, thanks again for all of your interests and assistance with my dilemma.
Will keep you all posted with my progress.


hopefully I have been able to help you
Roland the WOLF 19/8/2015

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this is my gauges

Attachment 60593


hmmmm

Hi Bigcol, great reply to my questions. Know exactly where I stand now re gauges. Shall do some seeking for an intercooler. It's not that urgent at the moment. Will get me the gauges though.Thanks again.
Now I received the lift-pump today and needless to say, it was installed as soon as I arrived home.
I have yet to see how she starts up in the morning but can say, that the miss that I had when revving the engine with the Beast stationary, it is NO MORE !
Took it for a run for about 10km and found the following issue still.
Starting from 0km in first, I run the engine to just under 2000rpm and all seems good, change to second and when I reach about 2000rpm, the engine hesitates but eventually revs further, changing to 3rd and the engine appears to rev ok through to 2500rpm, although must say it nearly seems to lack power between 2000 and 2500rpm in 3rd. Can you tell me to what revs the diesel should happily rev to ? Have found that once I get to 2600/2700rpm I get a definite hesitation. But like I said, the miss I had before when revving by hand with the Patrol stationery is now gone.
YIP, it is progress albeit slowly. Have not done the timing nor adjusted the tappets. The engine runs quite smoothly when at operating temp, so I doubt if the tappets are an issue. Timing is another thing. I bought the timing jig but my manual on CD does not indicated how it is fitted. You have any idea ?
That enough for now, had a big day. Thank again for all the help.
Roland the WOLF 20/8/2015

Gday Wolf welcome aboard mate. Gotta friendly mob here fulla great info and advice