Hey guys,
after an aftermarket turbo for my 2003 4.2 td gu patrol. Want something with more power then the stock gu turbo but also not to expensive and that is also a direct change over to the stock gu turbo.
any ideas? cheers
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Hey guys,
after an aftermarket turbo for my 2003 4.2 td gu patrol. Want something with more power then the stock gu turbo but also not to expensive and that is also a direct change over to the stock gu turbo.
any ideas? cheers
try a garrett disco potato big 3 inch mandrel exhaust monster pump good tune I done this and am hitting up to 300 kw at 24 psiQuote:
Originally Posted by trolling
Sorry is that a typo? 300kw?Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
I have mates with 335 RwKw Patrols so 300kw sounds right
Im not expert but 335 (rear wheel kw too) let alone 300!? I'd be more than happy to have my doubts squashed on this. Wouldnt think its possible for this motor.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Not from a disco potato... Think he means 100kW. Threedogs your mates probably have V8s yeah?
Wtf is a disco potato?Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
Garrett GT2860R
Not sure why it's called that but yeah it just is. That power out of that turbo on a TD42 just can't be done.
Is that the turbo you have winnie? I need to learn more about these motors sibce I have one here now. Plus about the injector pumps too.
Everyone is flat out trying to get 200 Engine kW out of a 4.2 Diesel, let alone rear kW
Mine is a GTX2863R which is basically the new version of it which is more efficient. Mine has an 11mm fuel pump but it is in need of a rebuild so not as good as it could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
You wil have to put up dyno sheets and footage to back this claim..... the worlds most powerful td42 on a 2860.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
Isnt that on a tb48. This is a td42.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
yeah sorry was eqiv to 300 hp I think about 220 kw got 180 just with the turbo alone with standard pump and intercooler so it cant be that hard ? I get confused with hp and kw but she flys either way tows 3 tonne like its not even there and smokes any fwd that has a go :animierte-smilies-f
Standard as in 11mm pump? Again I would like to see some proof, 220kw is at the high end capability of a 12mm pump. 220 hp is the xtreme end of a 11mm pump with little to no ability to control the idleQuote:
Originally Posted by B rad
I don't know mate what ever Nissan sell em with I just loved my ute as its indestructible but lacked power so I found a guy that knew his sh!t and told him I wanted it to go hard and fast nearly $9000 later she flys im not here to pull ya pud
I just answered a question I to was asking 6 months ago and no one on here could help mine flies and I just stated what was done I don't know what the new ranger has but for example today I smoked one towing my 1.2 tonne duel axle trailer with my mixer barrows and tools on to the dude that asked the question its possible just have to find someone that does know there shit and not a IMO msg me if you want me to let you know where to go as there is plenty of jokers that claim to know every thing
You can do a fair bit for 9 grand, so I would say it goes alright....
Mine used to go OK just with the exhaust, aneroid and Turbo...
Without evidence all your doing is pulling your pud. I can tell you that a td42 cannot drive a turbo that is able to produce 300kw at just 24psi even at the engine. Someone saw you coming with your $9000 and then my friend you became the joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
I have no doubt it goes better than standard but you have just picked figures out of the sky. Standard ones are slow and the new rangers aren't by any means quick. A 2.2l ranger is slow the 3.2 ones have a bit of poke I can also beat new rangers with the smaller engine at only 150rwhp.
considering I paid 42 grand for it 9 years ago with a 100 % tax rite off and never spending another cent besides this and have been offered close to what I paid you can make all the jokes at me you want my friend but how many of you own a 4.2 with just a tad over 100 k on the clock ? so If owning a smick 4.2 that would smoke any of you guys makes me a joke I can deal with that
Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
Firstly not once had I proclaimed I know everything... secondly I called you out for outragous power claims which you still cant prove.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
For the simple fact that you have dribbled out some figures and admit to getting confused between hp and Kw, does indeed make you the joke.
I however am very thick skinned and find this very funny.
Good on you for having a GU ute that you can sell for what you paid, I only own a GQ that looks like a crappy farm ute but looks dont mean shit when it comes to power figures.
I have already modifed my 4.2 and quite frankly gone way beyond your "disco potato", 11mm pump and a factory intercooler.
Again through up some footage or dyno.
cant read either don't have 11 mm pump or factory intercooler at that stage id parted with about $1500 what a bunch of red neck dicks please remove me from your shitty group as I have a life away from here
B rad,
I too have posted wrong information before and it was brought to my attention,and you either suck it up that you were wrong, or you pack up your bat and ball and go.
I was a little upset, mainly at myself, at being called, but sucked it up and continued on.
No-one wants you to leave or not contribute, but the internet can be a wild and wonderful thing, and you are posting, with no knowledge of who you are, where you are ... you could be five years old, living in Mongolia, sprouting crap, which then becomes truth, and everyone could then run around asking why they cant get 300kW out of their 4.2 D....
You cant blame some of the forum experts for trying to verify your claims.
Maybe, join us on a forum meet up, get to know some of the guys, and there will definitely be some more acceptance of your posts. I think there will be lots of guys that will be genuinely interested in what you have done with your truck.
I haven't met a bad bloke here yet....
Mic
There is still a maths behind all of this too. To achieve 300rwkw from a td42 you will need 28 psi on a 3076 with a turbine housing in the 1.85 ar and at 8425 rpm. Our engine only revs to 4000rpm maybe 5000 if you want to push it. So it's still not possible even with that size turbo. Then you have to supply fuel to achieve those figures and be able to control it at the same time and after all that is said and done hope the engine stays together.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
There are plenty of jokers out there as you have stated but you are prepared to type shit expect to recieve it back.
It takes a big man to admit on a forum he is a bit wrong But B Rad you seem to have a nice rig, I have a GQ and had it since 1990 and it has had 180rwkw since 1990 and has 190 klms on the clock. But my friend it doesn't matter how much fuel you try and shove into a 28-- of any size turbo housing it will not have the air volume or pressure ratio to exceed 200rwkw not unless you can rev the engine past 8000rpm. If you do the maths and use the comp charts the GTX28/3076 you just cannot make the air volume at 23 psi to do 300rwkw on a 4.2 litre TD at 4800rpm it can easily do it at 8425rpm. So with nothing else considered and 100%VE you can get 300rwkw at 176cc/1000shots at 42 psi at 3800rpm..for a 4.2 litre diesel But it has to be a GTX3076, and all input and output air temps as 25deg C.
Ben, Matt and OldMav when you dyno your trucks is it done in 4th gear?? Have you guys heard of "Bunny figures" ?? Its when tuners do a power run in a lower gear to get big power figures coz on the gear ratio. Do you guys know the ratios for 2nd and 3rd??
Yes 4th gear only. Last time I dynoed mine was on a water type dyno and the power is held at a constant instead of a ramp style. These type can be very accurate.
Yes have heard of some tuners doing as you describe, also probe placement for the dyno can alter readouts.
I do all power or Kw as a calculation of torque of ft lbs or Nm to a ratio to get Kw's my dyno is old and doesn't have a computer attached to do the fancy shoot out crap. As a general rule my dyno calc Kw a little lower than the usual. Its best to do it in 4th as this is 1:1 so you only have a diff ratio to calc into the equation. Also you can add a fudge factor to get engine correction KW's. You can do all this in 3rd gear but the maths has to have a fudge factor added due to tyre resistance size heat build-up, how long you run it on the dyno and so many other factors. Sure I can put 30 inch road tyres on my rig and put it in 3rd gear and just do a no rev dyno pull down and yes it will see a calculated 300rwkw easy, I have done it a few times to see acceleration times against load, so I can adjust the compensator better. But it is not unusual for the ambitious tuner to do a 3rd gear run on modern dynos to give over the top results. Have seem this sort of thing often 5 to 10 years ago.
P.S my dyno is a water load system and it works like this, you flatten the throttle and apply load until you see the highest torque reading or you can apply even more load to stall the engine lol done that by mistake a few times.. So it is not just accurate it is fu#ken accurate because it has one gauge that reads Nm or in my case it reads Lbf.ft
Well 4th is 1:1 yeah!? I think 3rd gear is 1.6:1 so if a motor made 140rwkw in 4th, in 3rd it'll make around 220 something rwkw, so a 300hp oil burning monster lol but only in 3rd gear :)
you guys all clearly know more than me which is why im here and im willing to suck it up but the guy that is working on mine has a 4.2 which does desert enduro racing and says his comfortably can sit at 6000 revs all day long thus being why I chose him and I guess my truck goes well I will get the accurate figures and im sure will surprise
Good work B rad, and I hope that you can contribute as well as glean some knowledge from some of the guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
PS : I don't have any issues as I only have a pissy little CRD now ......:icon_bonk:
Mic
glad your going to hang around,mate this forum is a wealth of knowledge..I've got a turbo'd 4.2(gq) and wouldn't have a clue what it would do..might have to find out one day,had it for years aswell..
Thanks I was only stirring the pot. Figures and some experiences would be great to seeQuote:
Originally Posted by B rad
Cheers
Nice B Rad that's the attitude, you may learn something now. 6000rpm is possible but our rocker system gets very unstable with the valve spring loads we need to use with our TD hence why our very smart Nissan engineers has set the rev limit to 4600 to 4800rpm these guy really do know their stuff. But roller rockers do help, at these sorts of revs we loose proper valve timing so it all get a bit odd with our very high compression ratio compared to a petrol engine so our cam timing needs to be a hell of a lot tighter. Besides that, the cam is completely out of sync with that sort of rev net alone having valves opening and closing being delayed. But you can lift the duration a bit and extend lobe centres to adjust to this rev. But like everything what you gain up top you loose down the bottom, basically making out TD quite useless for a flexible 4x4 torque generating monster.
For a desert racer sure you could try to make the heavy weight TD with its long rod length and heavy weight reciprocating items do this rev obviously its not meant to produce power at this sort of rev this is the realm of the newer EU diesel engine with its short stroke short rod length double over head cams and 4 valves per cylinder ECU controlled multi pulse direct injection. And absolutely useless in a 3 ton 4x4 that is fun to drive as a daily driver in manual format.
Basically our TD is an old school engine, dirty as hell, and really it does a good job at producing power way beyond the designers had intended with the Mods we are doing now days. But it does have its limits and our crank is its weak link after 180-200rwkw but it is possible to extend this a bit further with STD internal but not a lot. 300rwkw usable maybe achievable one day but it will require head mods beyond my knowledge and a crank to suit. Our TD is not about revs this is a silly way to go it is outside logical engineering for its design structure. Our TD is about torque in the 2000 to 2400 rpm area or our cam's sweet spot. To do this we have to generate KW's otherwise it is impossible to get extra torque so really what I am saying posted Kw's is a product of torque to get torque the by product has to be Kw's. With skill and knowledge you can extend torque build without to much of a Kw's rise by increasing volumetric efficiency and still stay within the cam rev range and 6000 rpm is way outside this and just silly. Our cam will not extend Kw's or torque for this rev it is dropping off radically after 4000 rpm as internal pressures and reciprocating weight losses come into play. You only do this if your gear box is ill matched for the engine or your torque rev band is too short, both of these traits are not our TD so the logic for this rev is unfounded.
To give you a real life example in March 1990 I modified my brand new never driven by me maverick, I pulled out this new engine and blueprinted it and I mean really silly blueprinting and balancing, due to a bet and to silence many critics and to make sense of my own ego I math out a fuel and turbo air requirement to generate 200rwkw, as that was me being very young and silly but my ego and bet wouldn't let go. A bit like you B rad but I had some knowledge and a well educated math brain. I achieved my 204rwkw on 33 inch tyres and 4.373 diff ratio in 4th gear for the then $1500 bet. But I can tell you this was only a dyno queen it was impossible to drive on the road it had lag like you have never seen and smoked liked those US truck pull rigs and took about as long to wind up and was probably slower than a N/A diesel patrol in a quarter mile. And I am sure I could easily math out a 300rwkw dyno queen for you and with the same impossible driveability.
In closing KW's in a diesel doesn't make for a fast drivable rig but one that can match its cam with enough fuel and cool oxygenated volume boost air to get 800nm at 2300 rpm is one really quick and fun to drive diesel, especially in a daily driver patrol. But to make use of this torque we need gearing to match the torque otherwise it feel like a 6.5 chev on a patrol manual gearbox it doesn't have enough gears lol and it feel slow and is slow so the Mods are never ending when you start down this power hungry phenomenon.
OldMav theres not many people out there like yourself that try and get proper figures and truly understand what effect they have on their cars, all they after is big hp numbers on a paper to say " look how powerful my rig is". At the end of the day its all for the wank factor lol to show off to people who don't know any better
Oldmav the the depth of your explanations astounds me. Always a good read, even if I only absorb 1% of it, it's all about those 1%'ers. Thanks
Thanks guys but truly this stuff isn't rocket science, most of it is logic and a understanding of the processes of the internal combustion engine. I have a hard time trying to explaining this stuff it isn't my forte. But it does really annoy me to see obvious miss informed info posted on great patrol forums. I can be a bit wrong at time but it is mostly in how I try to explain this stuff I never did very well at English and the written word.
Much of the key to usable power/torque for our TD is in the I call 1%er's, these little things add up, or accumulate to better driveability or better torque rise and flatter torque curve. Killerwasps only don't make a good diesel engine for our heavy 4x4's but a flexible progressive torque curve with gearing to match does. There are sooo many little things we can do to our engines to improve flexibility or to extend the usable torque and yes they are 1%er's but they are the things you feel in the seat of your pants this stuff is torque. Much of what I go on about like intake manifolds and induction system changes on the other forum is all about moving or extending the torque rise, for example moving the peak torque curve back 50rpm without a increase in torque you will feel this but to increase 20 rwKW's at 3800 rpm you cannot feel and for most of us we never even rev our diesel engine to 3800rpm so really this sort of power is useless, and just wank value.
I am not having a dig at B rad and i apologise to him but so many people get hocked up on silly things like B rad, he was thinking wow this guy must know his sh#t he has his diesel engine revving to 6000rpm, little does he know any TD will rev to 6000rpm actually it will rev to destruction, all you have to do is wind out the full rev screw this will extend the revs and obviously extend the max fuel that can be pumped due to revs if there is enough fuel say a 12mm pump and enough boost air then yes it will rev to destruction, no rocket science here no diesel whispering, just a everyday 10mm spanner. Most of us have seen a dyno chart have you ever wondered why they all stop at about 3800 rpm? Pretty easy really because the Kw and torque are dropping off radically because the cam and internal pressures with reciprocating weight loads are counteracting power development. So there is no point in risking a engine failure revving our engine past this point. What would be the point to rev the engine out another 2500ish rpm to see our Kw's and torque decrease to idle power/torque values. It sort of goes to show B rad's admired tuner has only enough knowledge of his TD to be dangerous as for 300rwkw well that's just fantasy at this present time, 300 lbf.ft/s or Hp or 223.7 kw is a reality now days. For me to admire a TD tuner I would bow in his presents if I saw a dyno graph with a torque curve with 700rwNm average between 2000 and 2800 rpm with 28 psi and the lowest AFR of 16. And there is a guy on here and the other forum who has near done this with a turbo I consider absolute crap, ill matched, completely wrong and never should be considered for any diesel, admittedly it is seriously modified. Goes to show what can be done to the mighty TD with 1%er's and a thirst for knowledge.
Who & where is your tuner bro?.Quote:
Originally Posted by B rad
And his car should be on vid some where's?.
just want the facts please.