Ally Radiators & Thermo Fans - Cooling System

Hi Guys n gals,

my TD42 silver top non-turbo is laid up and I am looking at radiator and thermo fan setups.

Does anyone have an opinion on what they reckon is the best setup for keeping the clunker cool?

I did just install a cheap eBay radiator and twin thermo fan setup which worked well until one of the fans came off its shaft, while the other vibrated the whole car body via the radiator.

YYCool were good about it and gave me a full refund.

Should I refit the original setup with clutch fan and shroud, only needing a new fan clutch?

Should I get one of these aftermarket radiators and if so which fans to use and how to mount them, and how to setup thermo fan controller???

Tearing my hair out, please help....

OLTROLL

I would stick as close to OE as possible Winnie just fitted a HD radiator to his 4.2 and seems very happy with it.
I'd buy a new HD radiator and reco your clutch /thermo fan and go from there ,check your OE plastic fan as it could be cracked and brittle

Thanks threedogs, more though please guys, need to weigh up my options

Are those electric fans noisy?
Been thinking of putting electrics on, 1 or 2, and get a aluminium shroud custom made to get the best air flow.
I have an aluminium rad try to control water temps but still gets a bit warm for my liking.
Thinking manual over-ride the thermal control when needed and cutting power for water and mud stuff.

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Originally Posted by macca

Are those electric fans noisy?

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I wouldn't say its noisy probable quieter then the original viscous fan in mine

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

I wouldn't say its noisy probable quieter then the original clutch fan in mine

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Cause its drawing less air haha.

I vote clutch fan.

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Originally Posted by Dales300exc

Cause its drawing less air haha.

I vote clutch fan.

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Yep supposedly thermos draw less air ( not that I have ever seen any comparisons ) but if it is set up correctly ( which most aren't ) it will still do what a viscous fan does but have more benifets

Ohh thermos with a good shroud will work just fine. Where 99% of people go wrong is slap cheap thermos on with no shrouding and expect results.

But the way I see it, if it aint broke, why try fix it.

Engine fans are proven. Less susceptible to water/mud and when in good working order work brilliant.

Also what a lot of people don't realize is the air is drawn through the radiator by pressure differential. Any fan engine or electric cannot compete airflow wise once the vehicle surpasses about 20km/h.

Things to keep in mind, are the rubber guards in place between guard and chassis, is the small bash plate/ splash guard on place and in good condition. If you have a look at fan shrouding on a gu it actually doesn't shroud the whole radiator.

Start with a quality radiator be it genuine or aftermarket, service your cooling system (flush, thermostat, fan, viscous hub etc).

Some good reading here.

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/engin...results-78338/

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissa...ot-td42-62472/

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Originally Posted by Dales300exc

Ohh thermos with a good shroud will work just fine. Where 99% of people go wrong is slap cheap thermos on with no shrouding and expect results.

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Very True, mine is not set up correctly I done my best modding the original shroud but really need to redo it. Considering I have a blocked radiator core and not the best shroud they do a relative good job keeping it cool

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Originally Posted by Dales300exc

But the way I see it, if it aint broke, why try fix it.

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Agree, but when it does break why not change it 2 something better

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Originally Posted by Dales300exc

Engine fans are proven. Less susceptible to water/mud and when in good working order work brilliant.

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Hence why most car manufactures have already moved over 2 electric fans *L*

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

Hence why most car manufactures have already moved over 2 electric fans *L*

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These fans are probably like smart alternators. Helping with fuel efficiency figures. They wouldn't fit them if they didn't work. For us mud and water could be an issue.

Ally radiators are nice to look at but the cheap ones don't do their job very well, apart from not being serviceable they also creat excessive electrolysis in the cooling system where you need to do a bit of mucking around to extend the life of the cooling system components. I would recommend a brass copper 3 core radiator everyday of the week and so would my radiator bloke !

Thermo fans are tricky, as said before without a cowling they generally are useless only cooling a small portion of the core. Try stick to quality components Like the Davis Craig thermo fans which have great airflow capacities for eg the 16" flows 2200 cfm/min and the 12" 800 cfm/min or even the thermo from an FG Falcon which has a high and low and is rather large in diameter. The controller is where you would find most of your problems, the most common is the Davis Craig one the fits under the top radiator hose with an analog dial you set to your desired temp which tends to leak because of it design.

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

Hence why most car manufactures have already moved over 2 electric fans *L*

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Look at the heavy vehicle world. Only thermo in sight is on the a/c condensor.

Just checked out 200 series, they still run engine fan it would seem, there must be a reason they have not gone to thermos.

Thermos are probably also cheaper to manufacture.

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

Ally radiators are nice to look at but the cheap ones don't do their job very well, apart from not being serviceable they also creat excessive electrolysis in the cooling system where you need to do a bit of mucking around to extend the life of the cooling system components. I would recommend a brass copper 3 core radiator everyday of the week and so would my radiator bloke !

Thermo fans are tricky, as said before without a cowling they generally are useless only cooling a small portion of the core. Try stick to quality components Like the Davis Craig thermo fans which have great airflow capacities for eg the 16" flows 2200 cfm/min and the 12" 800 cfm/min or even the thermo from an FG Falcon which has a high and low and is rather large in diameter. The controller is where you would find most of your problems, the most common is the Davis Craig one the fits under the top radiator hose with an analog dial you set to your desired temp which tends to leak because of it design.

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WhAt about the fAct that a lot of cars from the factory in the last 20 years come with aluminium core? I know my old 99 GQ has one from factory and it still had it in it when I sold it with now issues, not bad for 14years. My 04 GU also had one it from factory and with no issues after 10 years, the only thing being it was externally blocked a little. I still have it should any go wrong with my adrad unit as it works fine.

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Originally Posted by macca

These fans are probably like smart alternators. Helping with fuel efficiency figures. They wouldn't fit them if they didn't work. For us mud and water could be an issue.

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This is pretty much why. Thermos are quiter and the only real time you need the fan is at very low speeds, as I said earlier once you are at speed then no fan can pull anywhere near as much air. So a lot go to thermos for fuel efficiency reasons, space and sound.

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

WhAt about the fAct that a lot of cars from the factory in the last 20 years come with aluminium core? I know my old 99 GQ has one from factory and it still had it in it when I sold it with now issues, not bad for 14years. My 04 GU also had one it from factory and with no issues after 10 years, the only thing being it was externally blocked a little. I still have it should any go wrong with my adrad unit as it works fine.

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The fact of the matter is those radiators have plastic tanks, the combination of ally tanks with ally core is the problem. The difference in your situation is your motors had cast iron heads and not aluminium heads so the 33% ra rating of your coolant ( assuming its a concentrated mix of 980ml/l ethylene glycol for cast iron blocks ) may have had enough alkalinity to neutralize the electrolysis.

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

The fact of the matter is those radiators have plastic tanks, the combination of ally tanks with ally core is the problem. The difference in your situation is your motors had cast iron heads and not aluminium heads so the 33% ra rating of your coolant ( assuming its a concentrated mix of 980ml/l ethylene glycol for cast iron blocks ) may have had enough alkalinity to neutralize the electrolysis.

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There is no problem. If done correctly there is still no
Issue. If people against using ally would throw more facts instead of scaring people then it wouldnt be so bad. 99% of the time the factory radiator is more than enough. I don't know why ally is so scary.

The full ally rad in mine now has no issues with electrolysis, I check it regularly running a 50/50 mix. How many diesel patrols have alloy heads?

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

The controller is where you would find most of your problems, the most common is the Davis Craig one the fits under the top radiator hose with an analog dial you set to your desired temp which tends to leak because of it design.

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Would have to disagree George, sounds like some people are tight asses and not installing them correctly. I have what I believe 2 be what you refer to as an analog dial and they are NOT designed 2 be places under the house.

This is the correct fittings 2 be used with the controller which is also sold from Davis Craig

Attachment 40091 Attachment 40090

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

This is pretty much why. Thermos are quiter and the only real time you need the fan is at very low speeds, as I said earlier once you are at speed then no fan can pull anywhere near as much air. So a lot go to thermos for fuel efficiency reasons, space and sound.

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Totally agree with your comment Matt

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Originally Posted by Dales300exc

Look at the heavy vehicle world. Only thermo in sight is on the a/c condensor.

Just checked out 200 series, they still run engine fan it would seem, there must be a reason they have not gone to thermos.

Thermos are probably also cheaper to manufacture.

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Would not know if they are cheaper or not 2 manufacture, maybe they are just scared of change

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

There is no problem. If done correctly there is still no
Issue. If people against using ally would throw more facts instead of scaring people then it wouldnt be so bad. 99% of the time the factory radiator is more than enough. I don't know why ally is so scary.

The full ally rad in mine now has no issues with electrolysis, I check it regularly running a 50/50 mix. How many diesel patrols have alloy heads?

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Heres a water pump from a vt commodore with a v6 Ecotec cast iron heads and factory ally rad Attachment 40092 need more proof ??

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

Heres a water pump from a vt commodore with a v6 Ecotec cast iron heads and factory ally rad, need more proof ??

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I do

Couldn't that be caused by no coolant or incorrect coolant?

Sorry Oltroll for the slight highjacking of this thread

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

I do

Couldn't that be caused by no coolant or incorrect coolant?

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There was coolant in the system and was only done just over 2 years before i changed the water pump but the mix was incorrect. My oem ally rad in my gu was cleaned 6 months ago and after i reversed flush the system i refilled it with the correct percentage of coolant but during the course of the year i had to resolve some issues like leaks and thermostat so the % changed, over christmas my trol started overheating so when i got back to work i pulled it out and sent it away again and you guessed it it was blocked. 40% blocked to be exact and it was blocked with alluminium oxide, caused by???? Electrolysis.

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

Would have to disagree George, sounds like some people are tight asses and not installing them correctly. I have what I believe 2 be what you refer to as an analog dial and they are NOT designed 2 be places under the house.

This is the correct fittings 2 be used with the controller which is also sold from Davis Craig

Attachment 40091 Attachment 40090

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Your right Todd most people use the little rubber sleeve that is supplied with the controller because 1 its there and in the instructions and 2 they don't know the hose fitting is available. In my RX7 i have a digital unit which is crap but i too use the top hose fitting. I'm not knocking the thermo fan mate i rekon they're great coz you get more power and fuel economy its just finding a good controller that is the problem.

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

There was coolant in the system and was only done just over 2 years before i changed the water pump but the mix was incorrect. My oem ally rad in my gu was cleaned 6 months ago and after i reversed flush the system i refilled it with the correct percentage of coolant but during the course of the year i had to resolve some issues like leaks and thermostat so the % changed, over christmas my trol started overheating so when i got back to work i pulled it out and sent it away again and you guessed it it was blocked. 40% blocked to be exact and it was blocked with alluminium oxide, caused by???? Electrolysis.

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Weren't we just talking about a crappa door not a GU, so what you saying is the water pump picture from the crappa door was caused by incorrect mix???

And your GU problems was caused by incorrect percentage of coolant over the year because you just topped it up with water when you had leaks...... and if the correct percentage of coolant was maintained over the year it would not of happened???

Maybe the beers are going to my head and I just don't understand what your getting at

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

Heres a water pump from a vt commodore with a v6 Ecotec cast iron heads and factory ally rad Attachment 40092 need more proof ??

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How many diesel patrols have alloy heads?

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As above mate. If you had read the entire thread you would know its a 4.2 diesel. How many people on here need to know about an ecotec mate. Surely there is more to the story than just that pic :).

I thought you wanted proof of alluminium radiators and electrolysis ?? My gu and the ecotec water pump was 2 examples i have with me right now and the point of how sensitive cooling systems are with ally rads was the point i was making with what i was saying about coolant. So whats with the third degree ??? Have i done something or are you two trying to prove something ??

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

I thought you wanted proof of alluminium radiators and electrolysis ?? My gu and the ecotec water pump was 2 examples i have with me right now and the point of how sensitive cooling systems are with ally rads was the point i was making with what i was saying about coolant. So whats with the third degree ??? Have i done something or are you two trying to prove something ??

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I have nothing 2 prove, I just wanted 2 know if it was caused due to incorrect coolant in the ally rads or if it was ally rads themselves that were the issue

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

I have nothing 2 prove, I just wanted 2 know if it was caused due to incorrect coolant in the ally rads or if it was ally rads themselves that were the issue

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When I finally start my rebuild I need to get a new radiator as mine has already had a core blocked so interested in the ally vs copper rads debate *L*

No third degree mate just technical discussion. Don't get upset by it. Lots of info is gathered in these sorts of discussions. Ultimately it's up to the individual what they decide and having all sorts of info about certainly makes their decision easier.

Chill out, forums are for this sort of info. Technical discussion as such hold a lot of value.

No problem, I am loving this and getting info by the fistful, love experienced guys arguing the point, I am leaning toward 3 core copper/brass and refurbing my clutch fan, aftermarket centre so not sure I can strip it to fill with silicone oil. Keep it coming

I had not even considered corrosion

Cheap alloy rads are made from---- go on Have a guess!.
"inferior materials".
Also fin pitch may no be suited to your vehicles air flow parameters.
One size pitch does not suit all.
Electrolysis is cause by stray electricity isn't it? poor earths, radiators not properly isolated from engine or body work.
and electrolisis damage looks like cleanish sand blasting for lack of a better description coming to mind, the red/orange muck is just good old rust, improper mixture or not enough or non
it's a huge discussion alright.m2cw.

Great info guys, I will have a good look at mine after all this. Make sure all is as it should be.

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

No third degree mate just technical discussion. Don't get upset by it. Lots of info is gathered in these sorts of discussions. Ultimately it's up to the individual what they decide and having all sorts of info about certainly makes their decision easier.

Chill out, forums are for this sort of info. Technical discussion as such hold a lot of value.

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Dw mate if i was upset you'd know about it lol i was just curious why parts of my posts where being analyzed coz i feel like i had answered questions not created new ones.

BTW i have changed over 15 waterpumps like that one i posted yesterday.

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

I just wanted 2 know if it was caused due to incorrect coolant in the ally rads or if it was ally rads themselves that were the issue

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Hopefully this will answer your question

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Originally Posted by Robo

Electrolysis is cause by stray electricity isn't it? poor earths, radiators not properly isolated from engine or body work.
and electrolisis damage looks like cleanish sand blasting for lack of a better description coming to mind, the red/orange muck is just good old rust, improper mixture or not enough or non
it's a huge discussion alright.m2cw.

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Its my understanding that electrolysis is caused by static caused by different metals touching each other, water being a conductor in a cooling system it connects the different components which are made from different steel's like cast iron, aluminium, brass, copper and galvanized steel. Most coolants today are anti freeze, anti boil and inhibitor mixes, the glycol lowers the freezing point and raises the boiling point of the water and the inhibitor is a form of oil which is meant to prevent corrosion and contains the reserve alkalinity of the coolant to neutralize electrolysis by putting a film over all the components to insulate them from each other. I'm not a chemist by any means thats my understanding of coolant and how its works, too much or too little coolant in your cooling system can cause different faults.

You will also notice there is coolant for cast iron blocks ( usually green ) and coolant for aluminum blocks (usually red ) with the green coolant having 980ml/l ethylene glycol and the red 1060g/l ethylene glycol, obvious coz of having more aluminium in the system.

This is a coolant i have used in systems with aly blocks and my rx7 that i have put an aly rad in and had alot dramas with electrolysis eating thru the welds of the radiator and going thru 3 rads in the first month just cause i used the green coolant which it came out with from factory and finally solving that issue with this coolant.Attachment 40138Attachment 40139

i might add here not against any one but i have had to add extra earth straps to many commodores as they do get electrolysis and have had customers in with a new radiator that's 6 months old and heavily corroded already but no other cars eg for falcon my au still has the original radiator and its 14 years old. to back up about cheap radiators i know someone that had a cheap e bay alloy radiator and it leaked before it was 12months old i've had my pwr alloy one fitted for over 18months now and no issue at all except for the radiator cap.

I went through 3 of the cheap ebay ones in less than 12 months before a refund was issue. Brass/copper 3 core all the way

Mine has supercheap Techalloy coolant and no problems at all even 44 degree days it stays cools.

Ok, so I am low on cash, re-using my radiator as I reckon it was OK, it has been flushed.... Getting a Dayco thermo clutch viscous thingy for $160 delivered, Nissan ones are $300+. Trust Dayco stuff. Re using my fan blades, they look ok. Refitting fan shroud.


Thanks to you all for the advice, will take more time to save and think, but if I can stave off the heat demons for cheaper in the meanwhile, that's a great outcome.

Will post how I went!

Original radiator had muck between the fins restricting airflow, new clutch fan centre and system flush has made heaps of difference.

Thanks all