Please read the following
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1226744817948
The thin edge of the wedge
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Please read the following
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1226744817948
The thin edge of the wedge
what a mob of arse holes
the people doing the wrong thing has meant more resources needed
and up goes the price
just my thoughts
stephen
A extract for those who cannot access the Site
FAMILIES will have to pay to stay at more than 100 of Victoria's national park campgrounds for the first time, under a Napthine Government plan.
And the cost of camping at premium sites where fees already apply will be hiked from an average $37 a night to about $59 a night.
The Government is proposing the user-pays model - likely to be phased in from March - which it says as fairer for taxpayers and more sustainable.
The first stage would see 11 of Victoria's free park campgrounds introduce fees of about $19 a night on average, while 24 parks that already have fees would see increases.
The other 98 parks or reserves in Victoria would have camping fees by 2015 under the plan, which is expected to raise at least $13.5 million a year.
Environment Minister Ryan Smith said Labor mismanagement had left a $178 million Budget blackhole at Parks Victoria that had to be filled.
"We found that out of 133 camping grounds, only 24 campsites charged a fee for the use of the facilities," Mr Smith said.
"The cost of providing and maintaining these facilities (is) outstripping the revenue generated by more than $10 million each and every year."
The Government will release the plan for public feedback today.
Large group lodges that hold dozens of people, like those at Wilsons Promontory, would also be hit with increases of up to $90 a night.
The plan is likely to create a mixed response, particularly from businesses near national parks and budget travellers looking for cheap accommodation.
Last night, one of Melbourne CBD's cheapest hotels was offering a twin room in late October for $39 a night.
But the Government says it will put all money raised from new fees into parks services and facilities, which would give campers a quality experience.
Mr Smith said the fee structures would be comparable to other states, and would keep parks to "the highest quality".
"These modest changes will not affect Victoria's status as one of the most affordable states with regards to camping in national parks," he said.
A regulatory impact statement on the Government's plan, including modelling done by Deloitte Access Economics, will be released today.
The report says of the 2.2 million overnight stays at campsites each year, about 570,000 of those are at "basic" Victorian campsites with no showers nor permanent rangers.
There are about 54,000 overnight stays at premium-level sites with hot showers and full-time rangers.
The report warns that there could be less visitors if fees increased, but that the consequences of no action would be that "Parks Victoria will not be able to maintain campgrounds and roofed accommodation to the current levels leading to closures and reduced services".
Another option put forward in the report was a fee structure based on private camping operators' charges.
In principal, I don't mind paying a small fee if it helps maintain the facilities much like at Murundindi where it's $10 or $15 per night.
But the fee's they're talking about are OTT. That said, most of the places I like to stay don't have hot showers......
They call these fees modest...LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Are these fees per vehicle or per person I wonder.
As most will agree, paying a small price for a well maintained site is cool but getting ripped off by the Government AGAIN is BS!
Once any fee is introduced, no matter how small, it becomes far easier & more likely it will increase. 'User pays' is a scam. When did anyone ever experience a user pays system which actually improved on what it replaced? It just becomes more expensive & excludes more people. These are National Parks we are talking about, parks which belong to all of us. In some other states changes have resulted in fees (camping & vehicle entry) equal to or greater than caravan parks, without the same level of facilities often making camping unaffordable for many.
NP's should IMO remain special places available to all, not just those with the fat wallets & preparedness to book ahead.
So it begins!!!
As above, don't mind small fees like at Murrindindi but those fees are ridiculous and will soon be an expensive weekend with the family.
Are those fees per car or per person?
It will not happen, they tried to close all parks to ppl, a few years back. didn't happen
Just someone stirring the pot IMO
I'm sick I am grumpy and I am f%Łking pissed off with this kind of crap... as Drew mentioned a small fee but the amounts they are talking are ridiculous !!!!!
I hope you are right TD, Anonymous Office Wallahs with a stroke of a pen can change all what we know before they have had their 2nd coffee!Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Local NSW NP managers recommend closing access areas to their superiors with an attached budget forecast, read; cost savings, and next thing we know there is a thumping great steel gate blocking our way.
The place is run by bean counters not the people that get out and use the facilities be them serviced or bush camps. A fee for a serviced camp is reasonable but the bush?
Totally agree with Cuppa's post as well.
I'd happily pay $10 a car to stay at somewhere like Knockwood with its clean new Toilet a block. I'd be wanting a second block though I think during the summer when it's busy.
If they want to offer Hot Showers then that's great. User pays. $5 a shower. Timed.
I'd also pay $10 a night per car to stay at the Comet Flat Camp ground at Woodspoint.
I agree with Cuppa though, once introduced its a snowball.
I am trying to get a copy of the Proposal and will post on here when I obtain it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Quote:
Originally Posted by macca
100% agree.
Change of Government sees a change of attitude. Anything could happen!! 3 years out from an election and most will forget by then. Game on!
I know a bloke ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
If you can get it mate go for itQuote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
I'll email the Prez of my club and 4wd Vic and see whats actually happening
Won't happen in Vic if the 4WD movement has anything to do with it
Us in NSW look at the VIC system with envy, your 4wd association has been working well with the government and from what we know you are really forward thinking. I hope this is not a backward step.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Trouble is the acceptance of 'small fees, is exactly how it begins.Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
I just had a look at NSW national park campgrounds which appear to have a set of standard fees applying to most parks, but with more expensive fees applying to the more popular ones.
I picked out one 'standard fee' camp at random .....Tallow Beach campground in the Bouddi National park. This is a beach camp requiring users to walk 1.2kms to it. Only facility is a long drop toilet. No fresh water, & nothing else provided.
Costs for a family of four PER NIGHT are $20 per adult couple (same for a single adult), $10 for a teenager, $5 for a child, Plus a daily vehicle entry fee of $7. So for mum, dad, spotty teenager & younger kid the all up cost is $42 per night for a long drop! Sure it might be a nice location, but if the family plan to stay at a few national park sites for their holidays $294 per week is pretty rich & quite possibly more than the rent they pay on their three bedroom home. This is the model that Napthine wants to introduce to Victoria. I've been wondering for a while when this would happen. As Bob says, the thin edge of the wedge. If we are not careful we'll end up like the UK where there is a kiosk demanding payment for just about everything. It doesn't need to be like that ........ & shouldn't be.
They if they do change it won't be long before they revert back.. At $59 a night I'd be looking for a caravan park..
Another one agreeing with you guys..
The $15 a night we paid down Glenelg river is fine, but $59 is farked..
Spoke to a friend who is a Ranger In Charge. He was aware of the internal discussions for a couple of years but found out today like the rest of us via the media. He will send me a copy when it is a public document.
He agrees that the numbers quoted seem inappropriate for all but he high end sites with not water and a rubbish bin service. He advised that he will not be consulted on the fee structure and the Corporate and planning division will be in control of this! Scarey!
He agrees it must be sustainable and inline with the service. Watch this space.
There most likely will be a by-election in Franskston shortly so some pressure should be able to be exerted on the Govt as they will lose govt if they lose by-election
This has been coming for a long time every now and then you see counter ribbons on the roads and some bush tracks
they have been on both ends of wonnangatta for years gathering numbers
if it has a longdrop on it will cop a fee
Not only the fees. I bet you have to book online, which is a flaming nightmare in itself. Every time I have tried to book a site for more than two days at Glenelg Lower NP it seems someone has "Booked" the site for one day in a block of four or five. We used to book through a the local visitors centre and they would be able to let you know which sites are good and which sites might be muddy, for example. I would just like to thank Mr Napthine for advancing the interests of the local tourist industry.
Its just a grab for money ,they are trying everything to get money to fill black hole created. Parks Vic have had their budget slashed by huge amounts..
Somewhere ,some how the Governments have to slow down the money they are wasting and spend where its needed
just think a toll on the Great Ocean Road
Thank you very much for sharing this. Would love to see the document if you can get a hold of it.
Absolutely! No thought given to folk who travel long term or are permanently on the road. One of the real joys of travelling like that is the freedom it brings through day to day decisions about where to go & where to stop, without need for booking ahead...... and not everyone travelling has access to the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudnut
The Northern Territory generally does NP's quite well. Costs are low & facilities good.
Our NP group accommodation for the Cape Trip had to be booked online, nightmare to make changes when some dropped out. When we arrived at Kalpower they had double booked a couple of sites while others were empty so no harm done.
Everyone hated the system, especially when you are traveling as you may be delayed or change itinerary. Also the rangers hated it with a passion, increased their workload.
The idea of a "user pays" system makes me think along these lines:
Is it only bike riders that pay tax towards bike paths?
Is it only the tax from parents of kids that skate that goes towards skate parks?
Do the people on the east side of a city pay for the roads on the west?
Is it only people that take their kids to a park that pay for that park?
The list goes on. User pays isn't really democratical
Very well said, Taslucas. Our society functions so well because everyone pitches in for the benefit of everybody else and for the overall welfare of Aussies in general. Camping should be accessible to all Australians regardless of their income. Prices as high as $59 per night may place camping out of reach for lower income families.Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
Here are the Govt releases in this matter
Have not fully read these but will make a comment when I have done so
From a quick read the Fees apply to specific Camping Spots but a Camping Permit is being considered for Sites with minimal facilities ie Barmah National Park sites and they are :-
Vehicle/Boat Camping Pass
Annual $121.70
Monthly $81.10
Weekly $46.40
Daily $17.40
That proposal I would agree with as long as the funds collected are used for facilities and maintenance at those campsites
Thanks. Bob.
I got the email this morning from parks re this subject
See this link for full details
www.depi.vic.gov.au/camping .
That Link does not seem to work Darren
Try this one
http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/forestry-...mmodation-fees
Thanks bob, on the iPhone and links can be hard to deal with.
attached is a List of Parks with the types of Fees that are proposed
Those listed as Camping Pass will be subject to the following
Per Vehicle or Boat
Annual $121.70
Monthly $81.10
Weekly $46.40
Daily $17.40
going to have to plan trips and stays well now to allow time for passes and fees to be processedQuote:
Originally Posted by bob
unless there are pay boxs and reicpts at the gates of most remote parks
I think it would be best to purchase a yearly Camping Pass if you go Camping regularly.
I would suggest that a Discount for Pensioners be given and I will be submitting that to Parks Vic
Not sure if I missed this in the proposal but even with a yearly pass you will still need to book for the time you want to be there. Still means you need to plan ahead.
I think it will work as per now in that first in best dressed as Bookings will not be made for those Locations that are subject to Camping Pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollofish
Why not??? Just because they failed once doesn't mean they won't try again and also doesn't mean it won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Why would they change it back???? If people decide its cheaper or more convenient 2 stay at a caravan park they will just close the parks down...........simple decision for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
Of course it is a money grab, If they find something they can make money on of course they will implement feesQuote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
The way I see it they only see 2 options
1. Charge a fee and cover there costs and make money
2. Close them down and save money
I'm pretty sure NSW still has a higher population than NSW, not sure which state has the higher 4WD movement though and look what's happened in NSW................ would love to see a report on how many tracks and camping grounds you guys have compared 2 NSW.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
At the end of the day its all about money to them, they don't give a rats ass what the 4WD movment wants.
It's very sad but the truth