Steering wheel wobble woes - Help needed please!!

Hi everyone,

This is a bit long winded, but its been a long process so I wanted to list everything to date. So please read on. I have a 2011 Nissan Patrol wagon. Up until recently my Patrol had the original 17" alloys & original Bridgestone 693 tyres on it. I had been debating for a while about upgrading to some more aggressive tyres. So I ended up getting some new BFG Km2 in a 285/75/16 on 16 x 8 Dynamic steel rims with a -13 offset. This is where all this mess started. The Patrol has 35000 on the clock & most of that on sealed roads or good dirt roads. No tracks to crazy. New 2" lift, steering dampener, adjustable drag link, 2deg caster bushes less than 12 months ago.

The plan was to continue using my 17" alloys for day to day running around & swap to the steels with km2s when we go off road. Thats the plan for now anyway. So running on the 17" alloys the Patrol drove great, least I thought so. From the lot brand new it steered horrible. But after a wheel alignment when I put a 2" lift in & an adjustible drag link it was pretty good.

I put the brand new Km2's on the car with the steel wheels & there was a steering wobble between 80 & 100kms per hour. Also it just drove horrible on the road. Almost like the tyres were trying to grind into the road. Hard to explain but it was horrible. So I returned the patrol to where I bought the tyres from & said the steering has a wobble & to rebalance the wheels. 1 Hour later I got the patrol back & they said it was very minor wheel balance correction. Not really enough to make a difference. I got 6 wheels as I have 2 spares & 3-4 of the wheels had loads of weights all lined up on bot the inside & outside. At the time I was thinking gee thats alot of weights for new wheels & quality tyres. Drove away & similar wobble, maybe marginally better. This particular shop said all it is, is Nissan Patrols dont have central locating wheels meaning are are really hard to get the wheel to sit dead centre of the hub. They tried to tell me you need to put the wheel on, tighten the nuts. The loosen slightly & spin the wheel backwards & retighten. Do this until no wobble. Anyway!

So I figured it must be something in the wheels as I did not get this wobble with the 17' alloys. So I took it to a different tyre place to get the tyres rebalanced. They said the wheels were out of balance, some around the 40-50 gram mark. Drove away, same thing.

So in disgust I removed the km2s & returned to my original alloys. The patrol drove well again & I was happy apart from having over $2ks worth of wheels & tyres in the garage that I dreaded to use.

So I decided to ring around a few truck alignment places & a few other wheel alignment places. I got varying responses about the issue like, all mud tyres shake the wheel, thats just a mud tyre!. Another place said you shouldnt drive high speed on a mud tyre anyway like 80-100km per hour. They are not designed for that. Another few places said it has to be the new wheels as the old wheels did not do that, its all about balancing. Another place said thats Patrols, they all shake no matter what tyre. A few places said you are on your own, cant help you. Another place said its all about a wheel alignment, no need to rebalance.

So I ended up taking the patrol to Proaxle for a on car wheel balance & alignment. Firstly they balanced the tyres. He removed most of the weights & mainly put the weights on the inside. He used very few weights. He balanced all 6 on the front wheels, 3 on each side. It was interesting to watch, seemed very old school. Very manual with flashing lights. Then a wheel balance. They ended up putting 3/4 degree offset kingpin on the passenger side & used my original bearing. Also it had way to much toe so that was adjusted. Drove away & it was a brand new car. With the mud tyres the steering was very light & no longer felt like the tyres were gouging into the road. Very nice to drive so a win there. The Patrol has never drivin so nice on the road. So now the steering wobble. The wobble is very minimal now & only between 90-100km per hour. It is also not all the time. Its like at those speed it cuts in & out. Sometimes it seems to shake & other times not so much. Its maybe more of a shimmy now. The other thing i noticed was you can feel a very slight bounce/shake through the car, like on your right leg on the accelerator & when the steering wheel starts is in line with it. Does that make sense? All in all it has improved massively. I almost feel like its in my head as the minute I think its fixed it starts to wobble.

So I swapped back to my 17" alloys & the steering wobble/shimmy is gone. But I concentrated on it while driving & that slight bounce/shake I mentioned, you feel through the car is still there, only just. But no steering wheel wobble. While changing wheels I noticed that the drivers side wheel bearing was quite loose. It was due for a service the following week so I had the wheel bearing tightened. I also got them to go over the front end with a fine tooth comb. They mentioned that there is evidence that the panhard bushis starting to show signs of wear/cracking. So there was no change after tighteneing the wheel bearing.

So thats where Im at now. Im pulling my hair out with it. Like its much better now compared to when I first put the Km2s on. But still, I was so excited to get the new wheels & tyres but now I kind of dread putting them on. My next step is to replace the panhard rod bushes, but its all starting to add $ up now.

A few questions to put my mind at ease. This is my first set of mud tyres. Do all mud tyres create steering wheel wobble/ shimmy/vibration? Failing that do all KM2s do this?

I mentioned to the fellow at proaxle that I have read onn the patrol forums that people have had good results removing the shims out of the kingpin/swivel hubs. He said you should never remove the shims, never ever. All this is doing is squashing the bearings & WILL lead to premature bearing failure. Apparently the kingpins are preloaded from Nissan & should never be altered. Any thoughts on this??

Has anyone got any advise for me to resolve this issue? I am hoping the new Panhard bushes will solve it but Im not holding my breathe anymore. Im am just shocked it went through 3 sets of hands & I was the one that realised that the wheel bearing was loose. It seems every place has there own beliefs & some being its not fixable. I cant help but think it must be as I see loads of Patrols running around on mud tyres & steel rims. Surely it must be fixable.

Help please!!! Can anyone think of something I may have missed? Thanks for your help
Greg

My take is nearly all GUs will shake between 80-90 kph,
My problem was a wheel bearing coming loose some how
Not sure if you can completely eradicate it and as you have found everyone
is an expert. If you replace any bushes use OE Nissan rubber jobs,
You could try lead beads inside your tyres you buy a pkt and place into cavity
tyre will self balance. Never tried it but great for the more Knarly aggressive tyres

Check Tie Rods and also Drag links for any extra play in them. Mine were both knackered and swapped them out and now almost all gone. Need to check a few other bits adn get another alignment but went from bone breaker shakes to bugger all now

Ok thanks for the replies. Yes I had planned to use genuine Nissan bushes etc. The drag link on my Patrol is a Superior engenieering adjustable which has been in for less than a year. So that should be good. Anyone else have any advise for me?

mate where do you live??, i am in perth and had the same thing, took it to wilkinsons and yes it cost 800 bux but i can drive with one finger if i wanted to NO shake, they replaced tie rod, drag link and castor bushes and balanced and aligned it and its smooth as now, you just need someone who KNOWS and not think they know .

My 285 17 inch KM2's are as good as gold. No shake if holding the wheel, and minor shake if you let go, but that it fairly standard for a lifted Patrol.

Mic

Only 35,000 On the clock. Something aint right. Most guys see a few hundred thou before having issues, I've got to nearly half mill and only just doing bearings and bushes now...

Its a bit if a chase your tail for sure. Patrols ain't known for their light easy steering, there a proper 4x4..
You mentioned that the panhard is pretty new, I'd leave them until last.

First up I'd get everything 're tightened. Radius arm chassis mounts and bushes, drag and tie Rod ends, and as your running bigger beefier tyres you probably want slightly over torque wheel bearings.

As for king pin bearings, the bloke is correct, removing shims is a quick fix for worn bearings. Back to my original statement, your bus is dam near New..

How much warranty do you have left? I'd be bolting the muddies on, and tell the dealership to make it right or your not leaving, and it WILL be covered..
Something has been missed and worn prematurely..

I had same problem, it was found to be a panhard rod bush. Now much better

Kallen, it was fitting the muddies onto aftermarket steel rims that were the cause of the issue not the OEM rims and tyres. I would say it would be quite difficult (not impossible) to argue the case to Nissan. Especially as there was no wobble prior to fitting the new rims and larger muddies. But maybe I'm wrong

Thanks for the replies everyone. As you could imagine it is driving me nuts. It is by far the death wobbles that alot of people have mentioned through the forums. I guess its more of a shimmy, it certainly improved a lot after going to pro axle. Interestingly today I drove along test driving it in a 90k speed limit. I had my alloys with road tyres on. The whole road was heavily cambered to the left instead of the highest point in the road in the middle & the sides arc's down, like most roads. Travelling along where the road was cambered down to the left there was no steering wobble but a slight vibration when touching the steering wheel. It didnt shake the wheel when you let go of the steering wheel but you could very slightly feel it through the wheel. I threw a u-turn so the camber of the road ran the opposite way & the steering wheel started to slightly shimmy when I let go of the wheel, only just. So there is evidence that this problem is there on both sets of wheels. Only with the mud tyres & steelies it is worse. Maybe like the greater offset in the steelies, more agressive tread pattern & the extra weight is compounding the problem. I probably never noticed it prior to the steelies as I was really concentrating on it while driving today. I wouldnt bother about it if the muddys felt like that as it was close to non existant with the original alloys. It is intermittent which makes it hard.

It is quite disappointing & I didnt think I would have this problem with only 35k km on the clock & less than 2 years old with a modest 2" lift which has been treated like a baby. To answer a few questions -

Stropp - Im in NSW, WA is a bit far away although if I get desperate enough I always wanted to go to WA :)

Westys - Yes still under warranty for more than 1 year. Honestly Im not even going to bother with Nissan. There warranty doesnt mean much. I drove this patrol right out of the lot brand new with the steering wheel a long way of centre. Also the steering was erratic. If I let go of the steering wheel it darted off into the gutter. It was terrible. at the 1000km service they asked me to take it to a wheel alignment place to get a print out of the angles. I did that & paid for it. Took it back to Nissan & they said there was nothing wrong with it. I asked at least can they get the steering wheel straight& they said it was within 10% of being straight so it was ok. It was more like 30%. I fought it for 6 months to head office & got no where. In the end I got so upset with how I was treated I never went back to Nissan again. A lady at head office even yelled at me, crazy! The drag link is new not the pan hard.

janderson - Yes Im hoping the panhard bushes will fix mine. At my service at the 4wd place they told me there is evidence that the panhard bush on the passenger side is showing signs of cracking. So is yours showing any signs of wobble after the new bushes or did it just improve things slightly?

Clunk - Spot on, as soon as Nissan sees a 2 inch lift with aftermarket drag link & some mud tyres they are basically going to use that as there way out.

So thats where Im at, Im booked in again at the 4wd shop for next Friday, where I get my work done to replace the panhard bushes. Fingers crossed that will take the last of the wobble out. If that doesnt fix it, no idea. How far & how many $ do you put into hopefully fixing it. Ill let you know how it goes. Thanks for your help. If you can think of anything else please let me know. While doing the panhards Ill get them to go over everything again throughly.

It did improve, before this I put up with it for 2 years

Fair enough mate.. Well I'd start with New panhard bushes and a re tension of all bolts to do with steering and suspension.. Rear aswell..

That was way too much lead for a new tyre. Also should have the red dot on the tyre aligned to the valve. Any tyre fitters on the forum?

Hi westys, I will ask the shop to tension everything. Thanks.

Np99 - I will have a look for a red dot. I dont recall seeing a red dot on the tyres but Ill have a look tomorrow. I think the most lead is about 40-50grams now on the worst wheel. Originally when they were fist balanaced one wheel in particular had like 150 or so grams all lined up. But now only 40-50.

Hi Mopargreg,

I had the same issue with the standard 16" rims and 265/75 and I started to look at it in several forums. After reading a lot I noticed that is a common issue in the Patrols and there are a lot of points should be looked at (Bearings, Shocks, Steering Shock, rims/tyres, and so on...)

Four months ago I fitted MT 305/70 16 in a Speedy Dessert Rat rims (Sunrasia type) and issue is gone now. I would like to think that guy who balanced and fitted the wheels did an excelent job. I'm located at Perth and this guy owns the following business:

Warren's Tyre & Brake Service
Address: 277 Walter Rd W, Morley WA 6062
Phone:(08) 9375 9994
Transit: Wheeler St After Walter Rd

My shakes were caused by the king-pin bearings.

Removed the shims and shakes gone.

I will get new bearings in before long though.

+1 for king pin bearings. Solves nearly 90% of your problems

Mine wobbles same speed 80-90km/h when slowing down in a quicker pace
Might check my bearings as I've done all alignments, rotor machined and
balancing

Hi everyone. Just thought I would update this. My steering wobbles are all gone now. The problem was a mixture of alot of things & each thing I did helped it. So after the visit to Proaxle I noticed it had a loose wheel bearing. I got that tightened. Then I replaced both ends of the front panhard bushes, even though only 1 side needed replacing. After those 2 things the steering was still wobbling but it was improved.

I swapped back to my 17" alloys with road tyres & we went on a road trip. Driving mainly on sealed roads. Some of the sealed roads were lousy though. At speed I was all over the road, doing between 80-110kms per hour it really wasnt a comfortable ride. When I got home I booked it into another place for a wheel alignment as I knew something was not right. Upon inspection my total toe was at -6.8, -4.1 on the left & -2.7 on right. They said that that is way off. They adjusted it for me to a total toe of +0.6, +0.3 each side. Took the patrol for a spin & stright away it felt better. Easier to control & again less steering wobble whel I had the muddies on. The alignment shop recommended that 100% a good wheel balance will solve the last bit of steering wobble. They recommended a place around the corner who are perfectionists when it comes to balancing.

After the wheel balance the Patrol is perfect! No wobble with the steel wheels & muddies. An absolute joy to drive now. Never since owning this since new has it driven this well. SUper smooth even with mud tyres. I have to say I am a little annoyed that Proaxle sent me away with the toe way off on my Patrol. They even adjusted the toe so Im not sure what happened there. ALso Im not sure what Proaxle were doing with the on-car wheel balancing as it was a waste of time. The last place that balanced them perfectly said all wheels were out of balance between 60 to 150 grams. The guy was balancing the wheel was shocked when 1 wheel was 150 grams out.

ANyway I stoked with the outcome now. Im just amased at how many sets of hands I needed to go through to sort it out. Also I was amased as all these bits that needed adjusting or replacement add up to a big wobble. Even something in alignment with the toe being out added to the wobbles. Thanks for everyones help.

Thats great news mate and thanks for updating us with the outcome!!!!!

Not many shops cater towards balancing 4x4 tyres, Get that done at a 4x4 shop.
If you you have heaps of weights on one side the guy doesn't know his job.
He can de mount the tyre and turn it 180 on the rim then he may find that it balances better.
4x4 tyres should only be fitted by 4x4 shops IMO

Thanks for reporting back.

i had similar problems before- at around 90 to 100, the car wobble.... i thought this was a 'patrol thing'. since after 3 different re-balance, the wobble were still present. but when i changed tire last time, the shop to balance the new tires with a 'finger' mounting on the balance machine. the car drive like a totally different car....no more wobble. i was told that most tire shop have only balance the tire using the center hold of the wheel. but in fact the center may not be 100% center. so you need to use a finger ( cannot remember the real name) to mountain the tire on the balance machine. this is especially important for large 4wd tire. since each finger cost about $500. so most shop do not have this device. next time, ask the shop to show you this device first before doing balancing

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Originally Posted by Trol3.0

i had similar problems before- at around 90 to 100, the car wobble.... i thought this was a 'patrol thing'. since after 3 different re-balance, the wobble were still present. but when i changed tire last time, the shop to balance the new tires with a 'finger' mounting on the balance machine. the car drive like a totally different car....no more wobble. i was told that most tire shop have only balance the tire using the center hold of the wheel. but in fact the center may not be 100% center. so you need to use a finger ( cannot remember the real name) to mountain the tire on the balance machine. this is especially important for large 4wd tire. since each finger cost about $500. so most shop do not have this device. next time, ask the shop to show you this device first before doing balancing

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Which shop fixed your problem?

the one in Bexley in Sydney south.

http://www.rema-tiptop.com/portal/Wh...,71,116336.rtt
for large 4wd tyres, you will need a canctering adapter to do the job.....simple solution

I have had the same wobble problem and have not had the wagon long, was getting worried, but now have some good tips to try, cheers all.

Mines been doing it for ages. I thought it was the wheel bearings not tight enough as I changed them wheni fitted the locker and it was bad. I tightened up the bearings more as they were a bit lose after they wore in and it went away. Now its back and the bearing adjustment is still perfect. I wad told I need to remove the shims on the top and bottom bearings on the swivel hub but im not sure if this will create other issues with those bearings being tighter. So I have left it for now.

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Originally Posted by mudski

Mines been doing it for ages. I thought it was the wheel bearings not tight enough as I changed them wheni fitted the locker and it was bad. I tightened up the bearings more as they were a bit lose after they wore in and it went away. Now its back and the bearing adjustment is still perfect. I wad told I need to remove the shims on the top and bottom bearings on the swivel hub but im not sure if this will create other issues with those bearings being tighter. So I have left it for now.

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Want a quick fix, remove the shims.
Wanna do it properly, replace the bearings..

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Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories

Want a quick fix, remove the shims.
Wanna do it properly, replace the bearings..

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Bearings were replaced when I did the wheel bearings. I re raced the whole front end when I fitted the locker.
Maybe I should remove the shims as the bearings are new?

I had my tyres balanced when I had my last service. Immediately the Patrol had the 80 kmh wobble. I then took it to the guy I have bought my tyres from for years (and never had a balance problem). He says that most tyre balancing machines are designed for use on passenger cars. His machine costs many thousands of dollars and has the proper attachments to suit the wider, heavier 4WD tyre. He removed the large amount of weights the mechanic stuck on the rim, re ballanced the tyres, and the problem went away.

Yeah I gotta find someone in the northern burbs of Melbourne. The only mob I know of is Pro Axle but a mate took his Patrol there for the same reasons and he left there with a $1500 bill. The issue was resolved but it feels like they just changed everything, which they did, until the issue went away. While the exact cause is really unknown, this issue is a tricky one.

Anyone that can recommend a balancing place in Melb around Ringwood ???

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Originally Posted by The Viking

Anyone that can recommend a balancing place in Melb around Ringwood ???

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Hey try tyrepower in croydon. They do a great job