What should i get to start practicing some bar work??
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What should i get to start practicing some bar work??
Whats your budget?
Practice with what you plan to use so you know how it will act
I mate. Not to offend but if you ain't a welder or had propper training please buy your bar work..
Sure its more expensive but when you buy it the blokes making it have gone threw years or training and practice. Anyone can make 2 bits of steel together. Its making it last that's the trick..
And again, not to affend but its backyarders who are pushing prices higher due to more hoops we have to jump threw, its the reason why bull bars are on the verge of being banned..
I simply put it like this, would you muck around with house hold electrical?
I sure as Hell wouldn't, I'm not trained. I pay a bloke who knows what there doing..
So sure, have a play, build some camping gear. But please when it comes to the safety of you, the family and the millions of other road users, if your not qualified don't do it.
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
Good on you for giving it a crack mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty577
Trying to use Motorculture
Are you a qualified auto mechanic? Remember seeing a photo of your car with the front diff you had taken out. Should that not be left for the pros too? If you do something wrong it could be catastrophic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
Trying to use Motorculture
If you dont have a mate that wants to invest the time then a Tafe course first if they tell you, you have the ability then a single phase MIG would be the go.. After the course you will know the amps and current you will require and can purchase a welder that suits your intent at the price you can afford. Sounds harsh but as stated before you don't want bits falling off. Pretty welds don't always mean strong....
Nuts and bolts is a totally different ball park to welding. You can see a loose nut, or if something backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
A weld you need to know your stuff as a pretty weld doesn't mean its a good one..
But on my behalf I have a cert 2 in automotive mechanical, cert 1 in auto electrical, and was born on the farm so had a lot of exposure and experience with a large range of gear..
So I deem myself quite capable of doing these repairs, I'm confident in my abilities. This does not mean I know it all, I have a lot still to learn, but if I have a question my brother who is the head floor mechanic at the biggest garage on yorkes is only a phone call away.
Not to sound cocky, but I stand by my first comment.
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
How????????Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
I striped a ring and pinion in the rear of my hilux and it punched teeth through the diff housing and caused the rear end to lock up, I was only doing 60kph wouldn't have wanted to be doing any more. Granted this was in a hilux ... But chit happens
Got to start somewhere, so Mig would be what you're after. Easy to use,
Do your TAFE course, But there is a bit more than just welding 2 bits together.
Tri-angles are great as you cant bend them, but all this will come will experience.
Gets your mates to critic your work, you'll soon be doing clean presentable work.
Avoid any work that may need certification, leave that to the experts, ATS.
Look forward to seeing some work......
I recon screw the mig get yourself a little caddy stick welder and get some 16TC electrodes and spend a good 50 hours practicing on the material you want to use once you figure out how to strike a 16TC its easier from there
Once that stick welder is mastered, you can achieve anything :)
Unless you don't have the right certs, then you better leave it to the people who do!Quote:
Originally Posted by NP99
Got sick of Motorculture so gone back to Tappa
I'm not saying don't weld Winnie.
By all means try it, save some cash..
But don't start with something that has the potential to differ life from death..
Heaps of other things to build. Camping pole, light poles, camping gear, boot racks etc etc..
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
Kind of hijacking this thread but anyway......Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
How would you suggest a poor weld on a set of sliders or rear barfor example would be life threatening?
so far so good on motorculture
I prefer stick over MIG but that's me I like the sense of achievement from stick.
Anyone can MIG , but expensive hiring bottles etc, so factor that in on any job.
Without entering the debate about safety, or best type of welder for specific tasks, I can relate my experience of purchasing a welder recently, & the difference between it & past dismal electric welding attempts.
I bought a 110amp inverter stick welder quite cheaply off eBay. It is the highest amperage you can run off a domestic 10 amp 240v supply. I also bought a cheap (under $50) self darkening welding mask. The combo of these two things has made an enormous difference. I make no claim to being a competent welder, & would not trust my ability if anything 'critical' needed welding, but for general trailer repairs, fabricating special tools etc I am now able to manage. I still get welds that aren't always pretty & neat, (although some are) but I am generally able to make things that hold together. Past stick welding attempts resulted in lots of 'bird sh*t' & welds which often broke when stressed.
Two things have made a huge difference. The inverter welder is simply easier to use, especially establishing & maintaining the arc, compared to an older non inverter welder I've got. (It is also a fraction of the size, so much easier to cart around). The other thing is the self darkening helmet. This alone has made welding at least 500% easier. Placing the rod in the right place is now simple, because I can see what I'm doing through the lens before I strike the arc.
In the past I had Oxy acetylene, but rental on the bottles for something not used often saw me part with it. I'm not sure if you are supposed to do this with arc, but I've even been able to fill holes using a combination of the welding rod, & steel rod that I used to use with the Oxy.
Cuppa
EDIT. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WeldSmart...30636967510%26
Yeah gotta love the self darkening helmets, save heaps of time.IMO
They fall off after a couple of hits at 100k/h down the road with oncoming traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by taslucas
T-bone a car and have the scrub bar come adrift and spear threw the others door..
But to help the fella out and regather the thread.. :p
It depends on what you want to weld and your budget..
Mig is by far the easiest to use.. but with bottle hire at around $300 a year it can be expensive.
Stick or MMAW (manual metal arc welder) is the cheapest but requires a lot more skill to use as your introduction slag into the mix.
But if you stick with brand name, cig and boc for example you can get a good welder for reasonable price.. with welders it is very much you get what you pay for..
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
What about a mig with gas less wire, I'm using it ATM and don't mind it.
whats your opinions of it if you have used it
Mate I have an old big ass Arc welder and it will weld from Melbourne to Sydney non stop... shit tonne better than any cheap one but we make do with what we got..
I worked in the motorcycle trade for 15 years and was around welding in the more basic form but decided to do a course in the evenings.. By all means give it a go and if in doubt do it again until you get it right!!!
Practice practice... and have fun for you are man ug ug and this is what we do!!!!
I dont have building certs but having a good time learning and doing it myself.... today I built pantry cupboards!!!
Sorta the slack man's stick.. :p
You still have flux to watch out for. Good for heavier stuff, 5mm+ but a bit of a pain on sheet metal
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
I myself own 3 welders a big transarc I brought at an aution for 10$ 110$ later I had new leads on it. A cheap ozito caddy welder from bunnings under 100$ new. I also have a mig welder.
Migs are more of a pain in the arse cost wise. Even if you buy a 500$ gas/glassless combo which will weld fine. Your left with 3 choices you ethier rent a bottle around 150$ a year 100$ or so to fill. You can buy disposable bottles which are a complete utter waste of money. I would be lucky to get 400mm of weld out of bottle not to mention that the regulators are not worth a pinch of shit because they do no compensate for pressure drop as the bottle empty's. Or you can go glassless wire which is messy, not to mention you'll be forever cleaning the front of your helmet.
You'll spend quite some considerable time trying to work out your amps with your wire feed speed not to mention you'll be learning to weld at the same time so you wont quite understand what is going on. Migs can be frustrating at the best of times to setup on different gauge steel.
I've been welding for a good ten years I'm no expert but I am constantly building in my workshop and long story short my mig welder gets used 10% of the time only if im working with metal 2.0mm and below. Its just no cost effective .
The other side to my opinion is welding is a valuable skill to have, once you learn to weld a whole new world of can do opens up. If you want to learn to weld you start with an arc welder it's the only way you'll ever fully understand welding. Everyone should start with arc before touching a mig.
200$ later you have a welder a helmet and a box rods. Don't be two concerned with the whole auto darkening helmets unless you buy a decent one. I have both and lately I've gone back to my my normal helmet its just easier.
To start with don't go near TC rods (hydrogen rods) they are brilliant but not what you want to be learning with. They are harder to get started and get going again the flux looks a lot different when the weld is finished aswell. When your starting to weld you want to use a GP rod and they will be strong enough for anything you have in mind for welding. Easiest way to check is look at the bottom of the rod of the rod and make sure the rods has 6013 on it.
Cheap rods generally bite you in the ass best rod you can get at bunnings are CIGWELD satin crafts they are a lovely rod to use. Get yourself a box of 2.5 bout 50$. When your learning stay away from vertical/down welds all together, turn what your welding around to weld flat. General purpose rods are just that welding up and down is a different ball game.
Few other tips I can think of without trying to overload keeping it simple for now. When striking your rod drag it like a match to start with. Run it across once you have an arc slow down more and more to start with. Get used to watching behind your weld not so much what the tip of the stic is doing. The pool its called where it will look like molten larva coming together. Once you break the heat in that pool your weld will go to shit the idea is to keep everything falling into and move the pool along. Move the rod like your writing running e's, slow down take your time get yourself comfortable and wear a glove to hold the rod if you need to steady yourself. Don't bother welding thin stuff until your starting to get the hang of things.
The end of a day you learn to weld with an arc you'll be much better off. I still use my arc for almost everything the 100$ cheap y doesn't like welding non stop but it brilliant for small projects. My Big old arc that I could probably quite comfortably say is older than I am welds not stop never complains.
I will use a arc over a mig any day for strength. Keep your steel clean and dont weld over flux just don't bother at all period. You stop a weld you knock the flux off then go again. If you get holes in your weld grind the shit out them.
I've tried to keep this as simple as if you get an arc I'll be more than happy to setup some stuff you can start learning on and get a mate to take photos to get you going. Then from there onwards mate its all about your wiliness to keep cleaning and grinding welds out and redoing them.
On a side note, after years your fingers do get used to working with hot steel. Just remember also when you heat steel it expands and moves, tac all your projects together before welding off or it will warp all over the place and was once square wont be square.
O and good on you for wanting to start welding.
Not to mention you weld out bush with a arc from batteries.
Great response mate - good read.
Mate we've all seen brilliant things built in backyard workshops and the only certificate the owner has is a one from grade 5 best improved student. Having the right certificate is not the same as being passionate about your work and wiliness to strive for perfection. I wouldn't go welding up a tow bar a bull bar yeah go ahead. A bull bar as long as the bar work doesn't fall off driving along or you stick a winch in with your starting to learn welds you'll be fine. Even the best welded constructed bull bar with a massive frontal impact will only concentrate all force equally down the chassis rails. So a badly welded bull bar will be like having a smart bar it will absorb and break on impact. Stay away from all welds that have huge load strains,Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
Hey and with grinders if your new to them too use my pictures as a guide and don't remove the guards like I have.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2013/07/6.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2013/07/7.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2013/07/8.jpg
Not sure if that makes sense ?
Heres my 100$ bunnings special, no where as nice and constant to weld like a inverter.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum.../2013/07/9.jpg
Ozito brand fill a market gap........
All these responses and no come back?????? are you out there there there??
what causes a hole to appear in the metal when welding with an arc welder? I find, particularly when I haven't welded for a while I can melt, what I'm welding and create a hole.
Going too slow? Not feeding enough of the rod? Or too much?
@ Mudski Amps too high for the size of material, wrong rod choice, lingering, where maybe stop, start may be better. Heaps of what ifs.
Mig is ideal for sheet metal, stitch weld, plus tack all work before welding to avoid movement. Always wear eye protection "flash" does hurt
I got taught that on a test piece of the material you intend to weld you get it to the point you blow a hole through it then bring back the amps till you no longer do so , that was more so for mig but cant see why the same does not apply for arc?
I am going to make my rear bar very soon and will only fit it if I am 100% happy with my welds... should be fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
My welder only has two size choices. 2.5mm or 3.2mm. Its a 20 year old little Cig Welder. One of those "blue boxes" they used to have. Maybe still do...I use 16TC rods, by memory.
I've always pondered on the thought of making my ARB steps into rock sliders, or atleast a kind of slider, just for a bit more sil protection...
Have yet to see a true slider, why don't ppl just call them pipe steps, as that's all they are
Yes mate welding flash does hurt and it happens, it's always that flash you catch in the wrong spot. The worst part is you'll wake up in the middle of the night feeling like you have sand in the back of your eyes and trying to drive to work in the morning is painful. Your eye or eyes will be trying to close continually with any direct light.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
On a side note, welding will sunburn you. Arc is not so bad but mig welding will fry everything from your hand piece to under your arms. I have a bad habit of wearing just a shirt and gloves with a mig and i'll get blisters above the gloves and red raw sunburn under my shirt just before your armpits.
You don't really feel how its burning you until the damage is done, I really should have taken the time to point this out in my first post.
Reading and posting in this thread has made me realize how much is behind welding with a mig and a arc, its going to take years to understand.
Yes some good tips there.
To get a little deeper. Welding flash is caused by the ultra violet rays, just like sun burn.
Ultra violet can't pass threw plastic or glass, ie a welding helmet or car window. So if you do get a flash don't be to worried. You'll get the dot in your eyes for a little like you've been looking at the sun, but as long as you have glasses on or the helmet you won't get welding flash.
And don't weld in shorts or shirt sleeve tops.. you will regret it.. and possibly be walking like a well hung young cow boy for a few days..
Also grab a box of ear plugs. When welding a ultra high frequency noise is emitted, and although you can hear some crackle, with out hearing protection your ears will be ringing for hours, maybe days..
Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories
Are you saying I can't get Sun burnt if I wind the windows up in my car?Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories
so far so good on motorculture
Yes normal glass although transparent to visible light will block the majority of the uv spectrum.
I made the mistake few years ago mig welding with a singlet on.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2013/07/26.jpg
haha its not nice.