On Board Hot Water for Shower

Has anyone put a Glind or similar Hot Water System on a Patrol with Climate Control?

I dont see any issue but I would like to check that there are no known issues with the setting of the water temperature with the climate control temperature dial instead of the old slide lever ....

Thanks

Mic

No-one with any ideas?

I had a glind hot water set up in my old navara. Worked a treat. You are tapping into the hot water hoses but it shouldn't be a problem for climate control. Adjust the water flow by the shower head and run the engine on fast idle. I could not notice any difference with full turn of heat knob in car one way or the other. Do you have dual batteries? I am interested where you are fitting the heat exchanger. They are a great system
Steve

I can't see it being an issue. Once the system is full of water it shouldn't change anything...
I can see it affecting the heating effectiveness while using the shower, but you can't use both at once...

Kallen Westbrook
Owner of
Westy's Accessories

I had one in another 4WD for ages. At the time they were really the only way to go. Problem was the 4by would be sitting at idle for ages while everyone had a shower. With diesels you normally have to increase the idle to get enough heat. I now have an instant hot water system (you can get them from any camping store). They are more flexible as to how close to the water you can get them, you don't have to squeeze a heat exchanger and a pump under the bonnet and your car is not sitting at idle for hours.

I have fitted these units to 3 x 3litre patrols,the pump will fit in front of the radiator core and behind the grill or if you dont have abs there is space in front of the fire wall on lhs where abs normally is.
The heat exchanger will fit on top of the relays on the drivers side,simply put a strip of aluminium or steel strip above the relays and attach the heat exchanger to that with 2 large hose clamps.
hope this helps.

I have fitted mine into my bullbar up behind the numberplate.

What I am confused about is the best way to plumb it in.

Does anyone know on the 3L CRD is it the top hose or the bottom out of the firewall that flows out from the heater?

I'd tell you about the marine calorifier I have fitted in our Patrol, but some smartarse would no doubt remind me that we are overweight! :) Drive for 20-30 minutes & have 25 litres of hot water which stays hot for up to 3 days. Takes up more space than a Glind type though.

Boy, very clean mob here, will follow thread with interest,
Are these really required or could you wait a bit longer
till you found a decent creek crossing[no soap] or caravan park

They are not 'needed' but it sure is nice to have a hot shower after a muddy/dusty day of 4wding.

These units are great for Showers and also washing up water

http://www.colemanaustralia.com.au/g...on-demand.aspx

or this one

http://www.anaconda.com.au/Product/C...hower#90028204

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I'd tell you about the marine calorifier I have fitted in our Patrol, but some smartarse would no doubt remind me that we are overweight! :) Drive for 20-30 minutes & have 25 litres of hot water which stays hot for up to 3 days. Takes up more space than a Glind type though.

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I'd like to hear more Cuppa - sounds interesting....was it in the truck when you got it, or have you installed it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by threedogs

Boy, very clean mob here, will follow thread with interest,
Are these really required or could you wait a bit longer
till you found a decent creek crossing[no soap] or caravan park

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Threedogs, if it was up to me, I wouldn't bother ....... I am surrounded by women, and I have had to make promises to do the camping and offroad stuff that we do for extended periods.

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

Threedogs, if it was up to me, I wouldn't bother ....... I am surrounded by women, and I have had to make promises to do the camping and offroad stuff that we do for extended periods.

Mic

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My only worry is that it would become a three minute wonder and then never get used again.....
Does anyone regularly use theirs?

I went up Fraser last year for 10 days and it got well used then. Also when I go up teerwah beach camping it means the missus can have a hot shower. I love going surfing in winter then going up to the car park and having a steaming hot shower in front of everyone that is freezing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

I'd like to hear more Cuppa - sounds interesting....was it in the truck when you got it, or have you installed it?

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For those not familiar with calorifiers they are just a heat exchanger inside an insulated tank. They are commonly used in the boating world & are becoming a bit more popular in motorhomes. Unlike the Glind & Helton type heat exchangers the motor does not need to be running when showering & the temperature of the water is more easily controllable.
Water is heated as you drive, & stays hot for a few days (dependent on ambient temps & amount of insulation). On the two I've fitted, one in our bus & one in the Patrol, I have added extra insulation & find the water is still hot enough to shower with on the third day of camp without having driven. Most calorifiers also have an electric element in them, so can be plugged into power when available. The one in our bus is made by Sigmar Marine, & is a square shape. Unfortunately the square model is no longer made, a shame because it was much easier to build in. I think the smallest model they do is 15 litres. http://www.bcaaust.com.au/Marine-Water-Heaters
The one I fitted into the Patrol was made by Surecal, a UK company well known in the European boating world. They sell direct from the factory on eBay, & total cost delivered here was close to half the cost of the Sigmar. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-Litre-...#ht_2895wt_689
Main difference is that the Surecal tank is copper, & the Sigmar stainless steel. The Surecal also comes fitted with both pressure relief & tempering valve. With the Sigmar these are essential extras which push the price up.

Fwiw, I also found Surecal very good to deal with.

20 to 30 minutes driving gives a tankful of water plenty hot enough four showering, an hour or two's driving gives water hot enough to give significant burns. Thus the need for the tempering valve which automatically mixes cold water to the hot to give the temp you set it at. This also makes the hot water go further.

Of course an electric pressure pump is needed. I now have a tiny 4.3 litre per minute one in the Patrol, light in weight & light on power consumption.

Cuppa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

For those not familiar with calorifiers they are just a heat exchanger inside an insulated tank. They are commonly used in the boating world & are becoming a bit more popular in motorhomes. Unlike the Glind & Helton type heat exchangers the motor does not need to be running when showering & the temperature of the water is more easily controllable.
Water is heated as you drive, & stays hot for a few days (dependent on ambient temps & amount of insulation). On the two I've fitted, one in our bus & one in the Patrol, I have added extra insulation & find the water is still hot enough to shower with on the third day of camp without having driven. Most calorifiers also have an electric element in them, so can be plugged into power when available. The one in our bus is made by Sigmar Marine, & is a square shape. Unfortunately the square model is no longer made, a shame because it was much easier to build in. I think the smallest model they do is 15 litres. http://www.bcaaust.com.au/Marine-Water-Heaters
The one I fitted into the Patrol was made by Surecal, a UK company well known in the European boating world. They sell direct from the factory on eBay, & total cost delivered here was close to half the cost of the Sigmar. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-Litre-...#ht_2895wt_689
Main difference is that the Surecal tank is copper, & the Sigmar stainless steel. The Surecal also comes fitted with both pressure relief & tempering valve. With the Sigmar these are essential extras which push the price up.

Fwiw, I also found Surecal very good to deal with.

20 to 30 minutes driving gives a tankful of water plenty hot enough four showering, an hour or two's driving gives water hot enough to give significant burns. Thus the need for the tempering valve which automatically mixes cold water to the hot to give the temp you set it at. This also makes the hot water go further.

Of course an electric pressure pump is needed. I now have a tiny 4.3 litre per minute one in the Patrol, light in weight & light on power consumption.

Cuppa

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That doesn't look too bad Cuppa....I presume it gets too hot to touch on the outside.

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dominator

I went up Fraser last year for 10 days and it got well used then. Also when I go up teerwah beach camping it means the missus can have a hot shower. I love going surfing in winter then going up to the car park and having a steaming hot shower in front of everyone that is freezing.

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Dominator,

Good to see that you are getting good use out of yours.
We have used one before, but we only used it once on a 9 day trip. Considering how many things there are to buy, I have to weigh up how many times I will actually use one myself...

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillsGU

I had one in another 4WD for ages. At the time they were really the only way to go. Problem was the 4by would be sitting at idle for ages while everyone had a shower. With diesels you normally have to increase the idle to get enough heat. I now have an instant hot water system (you can get them from any camping store). They are more flexible as to how close to the water you can get them, you don't have to squeeze a heat exchanger and a pump under the bonnet and your car is not sitting at idle for hours.

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Thanks Bill,

I take it that you find the inconvenience of having to put the unit somewhere in the back of the car, more convenient than the old fixed unit you had....

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob

These units are great for Showers and also washing up water

http://www.colemanaustralia.com.au/g...on-demand.aspx

or this one

http://www.anaconda.com.au/Product/C...hower#90028204

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Thanks Bob,

I have seen these around, but I am still trying to weigh up the convenience factor between a Glind fixed into the car and the freestanding units.... and also make sure that with the fixed unit, that there is enough temperature variation in the 'dial' to actually make the water cold enough to use.

The fixed unit we have used before in a 3Litre Patrol was way too hot, and we found it difficult to get it cold enough for the kids

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pepper

I have fitted these units to 3 x 3litre patrols,the pump will fit in front of the radiator core and behind the grill or if you dont have abs there is space in front of the fire wall on lhs where abs normally is.
The heat exchanger will fit on top of the relays on the drivers side,simply put a strip of aluminium or steel strip above the relays and attach the heat exchanger to that with 2 large hose clamps.
hope this helps.

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Pepper,

I have seen one where they mounted the heat exchanger just above the Passenger side chassis rail, which would also end up below the second battery tray. Looks like one of the best spots I have seen to keep the hoses short and prevent too many airlocks.

I have seen them mounted along the Firewall up high, but although it looks really neat, I don't necessarily like this idea due to the fact it is higher than the radiator cap, which then also has the potential to form an airlock..... don't want any cracked head issues.....

Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

That doesn't look too bad Cuppa....I presume it gets too hot to touch on the outside.

Mic

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Not so Mic, because of the insulation around it. I also have both of ours mounted inside 'boxes' with additional insulation around the tank. In the Patrol this 'box' is made from 7mm ply & you feel no heat on it's surface. It has a little hatch I open to access the tempering valve. It is noticeably warmer inside the box, like a good airing cupboard. Btw I fibbed, it's a 22 litre, not 25.

Pics of the calorifier & it's box during early construction phase. Diagram shows how I connected the calorifier connected in parallel into the engine's heater system. The tap 'C' has proven unnecessary.

Cuppa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

Not so Mic, because of the insulation around it. I also have both of ours mounted inside 'boxes' with additional insulation around the tank. In the Patrol this 'box' is made from 7mm ply & you feel no heat on it's surface. It has a little hatch I open to access the tempering valve. It is noticeably warmer inside the box, like a good airing cupboard. Btw I fibbed, it's a 22 litre, not 25.

Pics of the calorifier & it's box during early construction phase

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That looks really neat, but a little larger than I thought......I don't have that much room in the wagon.

They do a 10 litre model which is half the size, no bigger than a Coleman heater, but certainly bigger than a Glind.

Height 250mm, Width 250mm and Length 600mm

But yeah, not quite so easy in a wagon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

Thanks Bill,

I take it that you find the inconvenience of having to put the unit somewhere in the back of the car, more convenient than the old fixed unit you had....

Mic

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Everything is a compromise Mick. I have room for the Coleman system so it is not an issue. Others with larger families may not have enough space. To me - I'd rather make a bit of room to carry the heater than to have the car sitting at idle (sometimes for over an hour depending on how many want a shower).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

The fixed unit we have used before in a 3Litre Patrol was way too hot, and we found it difficult to get it cold enough for the kids

Mic

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With the one I had - it was connected in series with the car heater. The water temperature could be adjusted by adjusting the heater control on the dash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillsGU

With the one I had - it was connected in series with the car heater. The water temperature could be adjusted by adjusting the heater control on the dash.

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I connected mine in parallel. So if you want really hot leave the heater off if you want it cooler turn the heater on and it will by pass the shower. That was the theory anyway. I have found the engine slightly above idle is the perfect temp anyway.

I just have a cheap setup, bit of mucking around but cheap, I have a stainless bucket to heat the water in on a gas stove, idea is heat it to desired temp then I have a bilge pump with a marine starter button on the end cap of a 50mm poly pipe and then to the battery, the water outlet on the bilge pump goes thru a hose to the shower head which I put thru the window. Drop the bilge pump into the warm water stand on the starter button and away you go. May sound a bit complex but it cost me about $40 for the whole setup, cheap and easy to use even if the hot water is not on tap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stropp

I just have a cheap setup, bit of mucking around but cheap, I have a stainless bucket to heat the water in on a gas stove, idea is heat it to desired temp then I have a bilge pump with a marine starter button on the end cap of a 50mm poly pipe and then to the battery, the water outlet on the bilge pump goes thru a hose to the shower head which I put thru the window. Drop the bilge pump into the warm water stand on the starter button and away you go. May sound a bit complex but it cost me about $40 for the whole setup, cheap and easy to use even if the hot water is not on tap.

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Stropp,

You don't have cold water over there anyway, so you hardly need it warmed up :tongue:

I like the thinking.... I was looking at mounting a 12V pump under the bonnet anyway for a water tank, and I could just plumb in an extra pipe in from pre-heated water source and pipe out to shower head and one way valve to the water tank to prevent backflow, then in essence I only have to carry a couple of length of hose, and a shower tent. I just need to work out if I want to go the extra step and plumb in a heat exchanger as well.



Mic

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dominator

I connected mine in parallel. So if you want really hot leave the heater off if you want it cooler turn the heater on and it will by pass the shower. That was the theory anyway. I have found the engine slightly above idle is the perfect temp anyway.

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Dominator,

That is one problem with the 3 Litre as opposed to the old 4.2- no manual throttle lock, only the pre-heat switch, so you can't have it just above idle....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by happygtu

stropp,

you don't have cold water over there anyway, so you hardly need it warmed up :tongue:

I like the thinking.... I was looking at mounting a 12v pump under the bonnet anyway for a water tank, and i could just plumb in an extra pipe in from pre-heated water source and pipe out to shower head and one way valve to the water tank to prevent backflow, then in essence i only have to carry a couple of length of hose, and a shower tent. I just need to work out if i want to go the extra step and plumb in a heat exchanger as well.



Mic

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if your going to preheat your water why not just get a 12v bucket shower out of kmart
oraussie disposals $20 bucks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillsGU

With the one I had - it was connected in series with the car heater. The water temperature could be adjusted by adjusting the heater control on the dash.

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Bill,

The shower we used was fixed either by inserting a regulator in the water line to make it work properly or by changing out the pump for a different flow-rate unit, which then enabled the heater controls to make a difference to the actual water temp at the shower head - before that moving the heater controls made absolutely no difference at all.

There is someone else in our club with a Cruiser who has the fixed on-board shower, and he is happy with the performance of his, but I haven't seen him use it on a trip yet either.

My only worry about installing a fixed unit, is that the Climate Control dial only goes from 18 - 32 Degrees, and I am not sure if that actually equates to the same temperature variation of the old style heater controls ( Not sure if Cold is Colder than 18 and if Hot is Hotter than 32... )

I will check out the portable units properly, but I would prefer to have something fixed and mounted in such a way that it doesn't take up too much space and get in the way. I do like Stropp's idea of the hoses and portable pump....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roofy

if your going to preheat your water why not just get a 12v bucket shower out of kmart
oraussie disposals $20 bucks

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Roofy,

We had a solar shower years ago, and it was, in my opinion, fairly useless....

I am a bit of a space junky, so I would get annoyed about having a bucket with holes in the bottom hanging around with no other uses....

Everyone likes different setups.

I use a solar shower, and if it's not ideal weather, a half kettle of hot water added to the solar bag is fine.

Not out to start an argument, but IMHO, a gas stove is cheaper to run than a car engine.

Be gentle with meLOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GUtsy ute

Everyone likes different setups.

I use a solar shower, and if it's not ideal weather, a half kettle of hot water added to the solar bag is fine.

Not out to start an argument, but IMHO, a gas stove is cheaper to run than a car engine.

Be gentle with meLOL

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Thats alright - I love a good argument....

Gas used to be cheap and easy, but these days trying to find somewhere to fill your gas bottle and does want to 'Swap and Go'....... I don't carry a 9kg bottle for camp cooking, so it is getting more difficult.

There have been some really great ideas and contributions to the question, which is absolutely fantastic and it is great to see so many different setups and ways about achieving these.

I really like Cuppa's solution, as this is totally different from most and will suit a whole lot of trayback vehicles as well as those who are travelling full-time. It possibly isn't right for me as I will probably only get a chance to use it twice a year looking at it rationally, and any extra uses would be a bonus, so I need a simpler solution ( which may be going back to the dreaded Solar Shower, but I sort of hope not ).

Thanks to everyone so far.... and hopefully a few more ideas and solutions will pop up too.

Mic