my water to air intercooler install

I have posted a few pics already but I thought I would do a diy thread.

I had to juggle this instal around work so it took alot longer than I hoped but anyway.
most of the work was done a couple of weeks ago on my last leave. today I installed the wiring. it came pre wired but I wanted it in a j-box and the loom wouldnt fit in so I rewired it and tested it today and it works..happy days. It has an 80L/min davis craig pump . which is 2 speed. A 1.6 ohm resistor gives the pump 5.5v for the slow speed and it has a pressure switch which switches at 7 psi, switching a relay to bypass the resistor and give the pump a full 12 volts. I also has a timer which is delay off. When I drop below 7 psi it keeps the pump at full speed for 20 second to help remove any excess heat. here is a few pics

Cheers
Benny

Neat As!! W/A coolers work amazingly once all setup. I wouldnt trade mine for a air to air anyday.

Looks Great Ben. Nice work mate

cheers guys..... I cant wait to test it out and what it does to egt's

Nice tidy setup the ben. Some nice ceramic coating on the exhaust manifold would have it looking even better. As for your EGT's it will certainly help especially once pushing about 30 psi through it :). That is the plan isnt it?

yeah the exhaust does look pretty crappy, may be another time it has spent far too much time in the shed this year. not quite 30psi yet my turbo wont make that much. lol

You are looking at a united TD05 at some stage werent you? Or are going down a different path? It will sick the to seee you results. Even with your current turbo and that intercooler you should be able to pretty much max your fuel pump out now and not even worry about EGT's.

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

You are looking at a united TD05 at some stage werent you? Or are going down a different path? It will sick the to seee you results. Even with your current turbo and that intercooler you should be able to pretty much max your fuel pump out now and not even worry about EGT's.

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I hope so I already have a mistubishi tdo5h you get with the DTS kit but thats as far as I have got with the turbo, it has only done 23k since new so I havnt thought about upgrading yet.

Believe it or not that turbo will push up to 30psi with minor high flow. The ones that come with the DTS kit are a TD05 16. United modify these again to get some more puff out of them. What sort of numbers are you looking at?

I was going to push about 22ish through at first, as for numbers I want to be surprised but if it is below 200hp I wont be happy, well as long as it is more than bigrigs i'll be happy lol

You wont do 200 on a standard pump. You will prob get bewteen 160 and if everythin is working well maybe 180. The turbo will need to have some sort of high flow to give enough air volume. With a fresh pump you will quite easily do 200 on 22-24psi.

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

You wont do 200 on a standard pump. You will prob get bewteen 160 and if everythin is working well maybe 180. The turbo will need to have some sort of high flow to give enough air volume. With a fresh pump you will quite easily do 200 on 22-24psi.

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the pump wont be standard by a long shot. I just took it for a test drive and holy crap!!! I drove it on the bruce hwy and in the 80-90km zones I was seeing a reduction of 80-100 degrees and on this one hill I saw a reduction of 180-200 degrees that is outstanding. its much more responcive, it boosts longer. it needs more fuel, i have been setting the turbo timer to 1.30 to get the temps down to 100degrees (from about 200) before shutting down, now its cooled to 100 in under 30 seconds. I could not be happier well worth the 5k it costs

Sweet. You will have take us for a strap sometime. Have you played with your pump at all? I do know some people where I could get the pump done for you at a good price if/when your keen. Do you know when your next break is when your home?

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

Sweet. You will have take us for a strap sometime. Have you played with your pump at all? I do know some people where I could get the pump done for you at a good price if/when your keen. Do you know when your next break is when your home?

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yeah I'll be in brissy tomorrow for the day I got back to work tuesday until wednesday the week after

Ill be back the monday of the week you get back

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Originally Posted by Ben-e-boy

the pump wont be standard by a long shot. I just took it for a test drive and holy crap!!! I drove it on the bruce hwy and in the 80-90km zones I was seeing a reduction of 80-100 degrees and on this one hill I saw a reduction of 180-200 degrees that is outstanding. its much more responcive, it boosts longer. it needs more fuel, i have been setting the turbo timer to 1.30 to get the temps down to 100degrees (from about 200) before shutting down, now its cooled to 100 in under 30 seconds. I could not be happier well worth the 5k it costs

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$5k wow.
Nice neat setup though.
I would be more interested to see pre and post intercooler tempatures.
Do you have any of these?

Marty

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Originally Posted by Bambill

$5k wow.
Nice neat setup though.
I would be more interested to see pre and post intercooler tempatures.
Do you have any of these?

Marty

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I dont have any intake temperatures. but on the way home home from brissy I gave the ute a hiding to the point where my clutch is slipping a bit now and I could only get the pyro to 360 degrees

Slipping clutch, no load, cooler temps maybe.
I guessing post turbo pyro?
My setup with the air to air front mount will only reach 1100degF (595degC) pre turbo under sustained full noise runs and on the dyno (ambient air temps around 25degC).
This is with 28psi boost making 194rwkw @ 2920rpm.
Having said that though the intake charge can get to 50-60degC (in the manifold) under those conditions from around 150-160degC pre cooler.
Only real difference being that the AFR's richen a little and you see a little more smoke.
Would be very interesting to see the intake temps of yours if you ever get the chance to do them.

Marty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bambill

Slipping clutch, no load, cooler temps maybe.
I guessing post turbo pyro?
My setup with the air to air front mount will only reach 1100degF (595degC) pre turbo under sustained full noise runs and on the dyno (ambient air temps around 25degC).
This is with 28psi boost making 194rwkw @ 2920rpm.
Having said that though the intake charge can get to 50-60degC (in the manifold) under those conditions from around 150-160degC pre cooler.
Only real difference being that the AFR's richen a little and you see a little more smoke.
Would be very interesting to see the intake temps of yours if you ever get the chance to do them.

Marty

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I just had a chat with the guy who built it, from their R&D I should only be looking at 20 degrees C above ambient, whether it is a 20 degree day or a 45 degree day, but that test was done with a ball bearing turbo and I have a journal bush and I would be looking at slightly higher temps because of that

my clutch is slipping because I did a few to many 5th gear pulls up decent hills from around 2k rpm WOT and full boost I was being quite harsh on the old girl. I would prefer to see it slip now than after the new pump and big boost.

I would love to see the temp especially once the boost is wound up I'm going to order another temp gauge. These kit are still efficient at 50 psi. On top of that Australias most powerful cars are cooled by A.R.E

Whats the theory behind journals running hotter than ball bearings??

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Originally Posted by nissannewby

Whats the theory behind journals running hotter than ball bearings??

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I dont know and I cant think of why either

All things equal, more Friction = more heat, and the BB Turbo being a little more efficient to generate the boost will consume/waste less energy as heat to make the same Boost , then of course journal turbos need much more engine oil cycled through them adding even more heat to the engine, it all adds up, and your cooler has to try pull all this heat away.


Plus they say "Slightly higher" temps, not how much, so this could be only 1/2 a degree ?

Yeah I could understand this if the turbo wasnt watercooled. I think I may have to look into this further :)

Yes, but if all was equal, the Ball Bearing Turbo would also be water cooled !

Both bearing systems run on a cushion of oil.
The BB will spool up faster by whatever % (is on Garrett site).
The BB requires less oil so you may get a slight and I mean slight reduction in heat transfer there, but as for EGT's the only thing that could affect it would be efficency.
All things being equal apart from bearing cores, there should be no difference in the compressor wheels efficency though.
If anyone finds the answer to this question I would be most interested in the explaination for it.

The compressor side of the 2 Turbos may be 100% identical, and so just as efficient as each other in theory, but you have to look at the Turbo as a complete unit, the journal bearing Turbo will require more energy input on the Turbine side, to drive the Impeller at a equal rate compared to the BB Turbo (due to the added friction from the journal bearings).


Everyone knows friction generates heat, sure it would be minimal heat transfer from the journal to the Impeller and so to the intake, but its still a tiny amount of increased heat, but i would say more important, is to look at the whole engine as a package, and how the engine is working just that little bit harder to drive the Turbo.



Working harder requires the passing of more exhaust gasses and so again a little more heat is added into the mix, the result is the whole Turbo runs just a little hotter and will pass a little heat on to the incoming air into the compressor, a slightly hotter intake means the compressed air is a little less dense, and in turn has less 02 available for the combustion, so again this slightly reduces efficiency of the whole package in a nasty little cycle.



Intercoolers can only be so efficient, It makes sense that the higher the temps entering the Intercooler, the higher they are leaving the cooler, remember we still don't have a actual temp figure, just that its slightly hotter, so it could in fact be very little difference, but personally i can easy understand how there "could" be a little difference in intake temps between the two types of Turbos.

Sorry to Ben n boy for this going off topic here a bit.
That was not my intention when I asked the question about temps earlier I was just curious for a comparison.

040FF, Sorry I cannot see the friction making a difference.

No offence to anyone but it sounds like good salesman dribble to me.
Am happy to be PROVED wrong though.

Marty

No problem Marty, ive tryed to explain it to the best of my personal understanding, thats by no means a guarantee im right, but simple physics dictates, Friction = Heat.

Anyway, as you correctly say, we have probly hijacked Bens thread enough now :p


:hijacked:

i can see the friction equals heat and considering that a bb turbo has less contact area than a journal bearing ill go with that until proven otherwise in saying that i think it would be miniscule difference
dont worry about the hijack.its a good technical conversation.
bambil. the guys are pretty ordinary salesman to be honest they just tell you what they know if you dont like it go somewhere else kinda thing
and while we are here the biggest issue with text is that you cant judge attitude. no offence given or taken
in the near future ill get a temp gauge and do some serious testing
benny