ZD30 highflow airbox and intake LIMP MODE!!

Howdy All,



So a while ago i installed the tilix kit and have not had a drama since... no limp mode, great spool rate and great performance.

Recently i grabbed myself a demon pro 3.5" high flow air box and after i installed it im having issues with limp mode at 45km and 65km under medium to heavy throttle, after playing around with the max boost and spool rate i havnt been able to adjust this out so i bought a forefront intake pipe and this has removed the limp at 45km but still happends at around 60-70km now.

anyone have a solution to this? will increasing the MAF housing diameter help or will i need to adjust the MAF voltage?

any help would be apreciated!

DI or CRD?
stock ECU?
Full manual boost control: tillix and needle?
what max boost now?
Guess still over boosting.

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Originally Posted by Bidja

DI or CRD?
stock ECU?
Full manual boost control: tillix and needle?
what max boost now?
Guess still over boosting.

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Di with stock ecu
Tillix and needle valve
Boost set to 16psi, will spike to around 18 at full throttle then quickly come back to 16.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sn5013

Di with stock ecu
Tillix and needle valve
Boost set to 16psi, will spike to around 18 at full throttle then quickly come back to 16.

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IMO, suggest you drop your max boost to nom 15psi and work up from there. DI do not handle as high a boost as CRD (stock ECU). CRD maxB 15.5 - 16psi (predictable). Try backing off your Tillix approx "1/4 TURN" may see 1psi maxB drop. Best way to set max boost is drive up hill slight load approx 60-70% ( hauling). Eg: manual 3rd gear @ 3000rpm hauling and adjust max boost to point of no limp and then set spool with needle to suit.

ECU remap is a good option these days (postal), send your ECU off for remap then you re-install and set max boost (20-22psi/AFR22:1). Provides good run and lower EGTs as running controlled higher boost. Your upgrade to induction from airbox to turbo is good and very suited for stock ECU or remap running higher boost.

Reduce your spool until there is no boost bounce and see what happens. The higher spool rate is making the ECU think its over boosting.
Alternatively you can run a resistor on the MAF to trick the voltage, not sure of where and how, but google will find it for you. Or the HPD air flow housing. Which is what I did many moons ago. Worked a treat, I wound my boost out past 30 psi and it still wouldn't hit limp mode. Prior to this, 16psi was the limit. on the knocker...

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Originally Posted by mudski

Reduce your spool until there is no boost bounce and see what happens. The higher spool rate is making the ECU think its over boosting.
Alternatively you can run a resistor on the MAF to trick the voltage, not sure of where and how, but google will find it for you. Or the HPD air flow housing. Which is what I did many moons ago. Worked a treat, I wound my boost out past 30 psi and it still wouldn't hit limp mode. Prior to this, 16psi was the limit. on the knocker...

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So the HPD maf mousing helped the limp issue?

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Originally Posted by sn5013

So the HPD maf mousing helped the limp issue?

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I have the MAF sensor housing I have the airbox lid from HPD it has definitely helped with the overall performance but it is still a balance of turbo settings and boost and unfortunately throttle last weekend I went on a camping trip with the boys to rescue and old four-wheel drive from the bush on the way there the turbo limp mode happened twice but coming home at low speed with the other four-wheel drive there was no limp mode issues whatsoever so sometimes we are probably just trying to give it too much stick

Larger exhaust sys, improved induction flow allow the turbo to spool up quicker/spin up faster and the ECU sometimes cannot keep up. Only ever had limp issues(early on) when running 21psi (hauling) with stock turbo/ECU. Never had this issues post ECU remap(either stock or H/F turbo). Understand that the DI is more prone than CRD.

Early days of NADS, to avoid limp, understand it was a practice to adjust the turbo vane angle limit stop (screw it down) so to reduce the turbine speed to prevent over boosting.

I run a procharge stage 3 turbo (moderate tune) at maxB of 27psi, ECU remap, 4" induction with 3" duct from airbox to turbo, larger TMIC. To achieve desired performance low down, I have done extensive adjustment to the turbo VNT actuator rod length, ie: the vacuum required to lift actuator lever to hit stop. This controls the length of time that the exhaust wheel vanes are closed to achieve required spin up rate of the turbine for low down performance and does influence spool rate and boost behavior.

As an experiment if you would like to adjust turbo actuator to see if this helps, I can walk you thru this but care is needed not to over boost.

Question: When you spool up fast from say 2000RPM, does it feel:
Laggy
Linear (good spool rate), or
Surges a bit?

Check your private messages

the actuator is something i havnt played with as yet but wouldnt mind doing.

Bare in mind mine is auto, but if i put my foot down and it drops a gear, rpms rise obviously and she spools up quick, i wouldn't say its laggy at all and it responds well but if i keep the throttle down for say 5-10 seconds it will then hit limp mode.

if i take of from the lights with 30% throttle she picks up pretty good but at around 45km it hits limp mode then does it again at around 65km but from there upwards limp mode doesnt come back on.

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Originally Posted by sn5013

the actuator is something i havnt played with as yet but wouldnt mind doing.

Bare in mind mine is auto, but if i put my foot down and it drops a gear, rpms rise obviously

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and she spools up quick

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, i wouldn't say its laggy at all and it responds well but if i keep the throttle down for say 5-10 seconds it will then hit limp mode.

if i take of from the lights with 30% throttle she picks up pretty good but at around 45km it hits limp mode then does it again at around 65km but from there upwards limp mode doesnt come back on.

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U say

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she spools up quick

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, does it feel like a gradual increase of spooling up (linear) or does it surge a bit (like starts off gaining at a steady rate and then increases rapidly with a surge)?

When you:

Quote:

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take of from the lights with 30% throttle she picks up pretty good but at around 45km it hits limp mode then does it again at around 65km but from there upwards limp mode doesnt come back on.

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What is the max boost reading at these points?

Have U tried reducing your spool rate, unwinding the needle valve?
Have U tried reducing max boost by unwinding the Tillix?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sn5013

So the HPD maf mousing helped the limp issue?

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Uhm, yep!

Dont even bother piss farting around trying to tune out limp mode. Your seriously flogging a dead horse. Either put a resistor inline on the MAF, buy the HPD MAF housing or get some sort of chippy plug in device to get rid of limp. Seriously...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudski

Uhm, yep!

Dont even bother piss farting around trying to tune out limp mode. Your seriously flogging a dead horse. Either put a resistor inline on the MAF, buy the HPD MAF housing or get some sort of chippy plug in device to get rid of limp. Seriously...

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Yeah Mark, would not a remap and get the fueling right be the go? Works for me, stuffing around with MAF voltage correction is the stuff around from past isn't it?..

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Originally Posted by Bidja

Yeah Mark, would not a remap and get the fueling right be the go? Works for me, stuffing around with MAF voltage correction is the stuff around from past isn't it?..

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Yeah or a Remap. But they aren't reversable, as far as I know. I'd rather have the ability to change if the need ever came up.

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Originally Posted by mudski

Yeah or a Remap. But they aren't reversable, as far as I know. I'd rather have the ability to change if the need ever came up.

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I understand that a sole(original) tuner of an ECU can make numerous changes from the stock baseline parameters and that tuner needs to reverse the ECU back to the stock baseline parameters prior to any other tuner performing a remap of that ECU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bidja

I understand that a sole(original) tuner of an ECU can make numerous changes from the stock baseline parameters and that tuner needs to reverse the ECU back to the stock baseline parameters prior to any other tuner performing a remap of that ECU.

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Ahh Ok. Back when I had the Di grenade, The only option then was for a single, permanent remap.

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Originally Posted by mudski

Ahh Ok. Back when I had the Di grenade, The only option then was for a single, permanent remap.

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I had the original remap(postal/mid 2017) plus 3 additional(live tunes).

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Originally Posted by Bidja

I had the original remap(postal/mid 2017) plus 3 additional(live tunes).

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Yeah nice. I think the Di ECU remap was, and maybe still is, a single and permanent job. But its been a while now, things might have changed.

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Originally Posted by Dr Gary

Check your private messages

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Have replied to you mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bidja

U say , does it feel like a gradual increase of spooling up (linear) or does it surge a bit (like starts off gaining at a steady rate and then increases rapidly with a surge)?

When you:
What is the max boost reading at these points?

Have U tried reducing your spool rate, unwinding the needle valve?
Have U tried reducing max boost by unwinding the Tillix?

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nice gradual spool increase.
when it hits limp mode at those points it seams to be around 10-12psi
Ive tried having the needle basicly all the way out, that removed limp at 40km but still happends at 60km
ive gone down to 15psi now since having these issues and that has stopped it hitting limp mode at every take off, still happeneds most of the time tho and when im on heavy gas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudski

Yeah nice. I think the Di ECU remap was, and maybe still is, a single and permanent job. But its been a while now, things might have changed.

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Think DI and CRD same class for remaps theses days. I know of one DI that has had new Eclipse turbo fitted and had a live tune done subsequent to earlier remaps when had stock turbo on it.
Not sure if they need to be master tuners or not.
All good mate.

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Originally Posted by sn5013

nice gradual spool increase.
ive gone down to 15psi now since having these issues and that has stopped it hitting limp mode at every take off, still happeneds most of the time tho and when im on heavy gas

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IMO, now that U have max boost set at 15psi and only getting limp holding loud pedal, U are most likely still over boosting slightly under heavy acceleration.
How far have you got the needle valve wound out?

Have to ask this_is the needle valve (if one directional tillix type), connected up in the with the vacuum arrow pointing toward vacuum pick up?

Try leaving Tillix boost controller where is for the moment(max boost 15psi), wind the needle right in (clockwise/closed), start eng and @ idle unwind needle valve and if the actuator rod drops this is correct.

OK, now at idle wind the needle in and check to see if the actuator lever is hitting the vane angle limit stop grub screw (with needle closed). Then gradual unwind needle and when the level just drops a way from the stop screw wind needle back in (clockwise)say 1/4 turn. Go for a drive and let us know what you experience. If limp occurs under full acceleration unwind needle more(say one turn). If no joy, we can have a look at adjustment to actuator rod length.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bidja

IMO, now that U have max boost set at 15psi and only getting limp holding loud pedal, U are most likely still over boosting slightly under heavy acceleration.
How far have you got the needle valve wound out?

Have to ask this_is the needle valve (if one directional tillix type), connected up in the with the vacuum arrow pointing toward vacuum pick up?

Try leaving Tillix boost controller where is for the moment(max boost 15psi), wind the needle right in (clockwise/closed), start eng and @ idle unwind needle valve and if the actuator rod drops this is correct.

OK, now at idle wind the needle in and check to see if the actuator lever is hitting the vane angle limit stop grub screw (with needle closed). Then gradual unwind needle and when the level just drops a way from the stop screw wind needle back in (clockwise)say 1/4 turn. Go for a drive and let us know what you experience. If limp occurs under full acceleration unwind needle more(say one turn). If no joy, we can have a look at adjustment to actuator rod length.

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needle valve is about 3 turns out currently, put foot to the floor and she goes to 17psi for a second then settles down to 15psi, needle valve is the one way type and arrow pointing away from the vacuum intake.

I had originally adjusted the needle valve going of the actuator level to set it, that was before i installed the demon pro airbox, before this it ran mint

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Originally Posted by sn5013

needle valve is about 3 turns out currently, put foot to the floor and she goes to 17psi for a second then settles down to 15psi, needle valve is the one way type and arrow pointing away from the vacuum intake.

I had originally adjusted the needle valve going of the actuator level to set it, that was before i installed the demon pro airbox, before this it ran mint

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needle valve is the one way type and arrow pointing away from the vacuum intake

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. Yeah the vac arrow should be facing towards vac pick up. You are running max spool_turn it around and give a try mate. As I said when you open the needle valve the actuator rod should drop not yours (one way directional flow)..

@sn5013 check out Westy's video link here. Credits goes to Kallen @bigguwesty that hangs out here, helped me heaps early on:clapping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tQziIey884

You have to keep in mind these are mechanical devices.
So you need an action for a reaction and it takes time.
Are you running the factory intercooler?
You may have leaks in the system ( they leaked like seives from the factory....)
The more leaks you have the not air you need to reach max boost.
So limp is a combination of air flow, boost and load..
Eliminate leaks and then work on boost and spool rate.
Fuel should take care of itself.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bidja

. Yeah the vac arrow should be facing towards vac pick up. You are running max spool_turn it around and give a try mate. As I said when you open the needle valve the actuator rod should drop not yours (one way directional flow)..

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Sorry mate think a mix of words has crossed us up here, currently the arrow is pointing to go with the flow of vacuum air, so away from the vacuum intake filter.

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Originally Posted by bigguwesty

You have to keep in mind these are mechanical devices.
So you need an action for a reaction and it takes time.
Are you running the factory intercooler?
You may have leaks in the system ( they leaked like seives from the factory....)
The more leaks you have the not air you need to reach max boost.
So limp is a combination of air flow, boost and load..
Eliminate leaks and then work on boost and spool rate.
Fuel should take care of itself.

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

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no, im running a welded intercooler, have already pressure tested the system for leaks and non at all.

i think bidja is right . arrow needs to point towards vac connection as this is the direction of flow that you want to meter .

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Originally Posted by sn5013

Sorry mate think a mix of words has crossed us up here, currently the arrow is pointing to go with the flow of vacuum air, so away from the vacuum intake filter.

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Arrow has to point toward vacuum pick up at engine not to air filter / intake, check Westy's youtube video.

There is no vac on air filter/induction side.

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Originally Posted by Bidja

Arrow has to point toward vacuum pick up at engine not to air filter / intake, check Westy's youtube video.

There is no vac on air filter/induction side.

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yes correct this is how it is.
other side of my needle valve i have an air filter for where air is drawn in, the arrow points arrow from this..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sn5013

yes correct this is how it is.
other side of my needle valve i have an air filter for where air is drawn in, the arrow points arrow from this..

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i should have just said the needle valve is installed correctly, i know this because i adjust my spool rate daily haha

Ok so if you know there are no leaks we have to set it correctly.
First up.
Stop fiddling..
Number one cause of frustration.

To set.
Close needle right off.
Then on an open stretch get into third gear about 1800 rpm and accelerate through to 3500 rpm.
Set max boost to 16psi.

There isn't much point going high with stock turbo.
My saying is there is only so much air you can blow through a straw...

Once your happy with 16psi max open the needle while the car is at idle untill you see the vnt arm just drop off the stopper.

Lock it in.

Give it a while.
If it hits limp open needle a little more.
But only open it like 1/8 a turn at a time. It's very fiddly.
Once you found the sweet spot leave it.

Also as mentioned before it's all mechanical so takes time to react.
Try applying throttle inline with rpm instead of mashing the pedal.
You'll get a better response and less limp..

At the end of the day the stock ECU will only take so much..
East coast performance tuning are the go to guys for the Di.
One of, if not the first to crack the di ECU.

All other mods like bigger maf housings and maf clips simply mask the issue and lean out the engine.
So revert to that straw quote.
You'll have fully sick boost but zero extra power as your not adding fuel to suit....
Hope it helps

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigguwesty

Ok so if you know there are no leaks we have to set it correctly.
First up.
Stop fiddling..
Number one cause of frustration.

To set.
Close needle right off.
Then on an open stretch get into third gear about 1800 rpm and accelerate through to 3500 rpm.
Set max boost to 16psi.

There isn't much point going high with stock turbo.
My saying is there is only so much air you can blow through a straw...

Once your happy with 16psi max open the needle while the car is at idle untill you see the vnt arm just drop off the stopper.

Lock it in.

Give it a while.
If it hits limp open needle a little more.
But only open it like 1/8 a turn at a time. It's very fiddly.
Once you found the sweet spot leave it.

Also as mentioned before it's all mechanical so takes time to react.
Try applying throttle inline with rpm instead of mashing the pedal.
You'll get a better response and less limp..

At the end of the day the stock ECU will only take so much..
East coast performance tuning are the go to guys for the Di.
One of, if not the first to crack the di ECU.

All other mods like bigger maf housings and maf clips simply mask the issue and lean out the engine.
So revert to that straw quote.
You'll have fully sick boost but zero extra power as your not adding fuel to suit....
Hope it helps

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

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Hi mate, what you just mentioned to do is exactly what i did to set the tillix when first installed, it ran great.
have since added the new air box and got limp issues so i went through the tillix install and re-did everything including setting the actuator arm, max boost, running all new hosing, boost leak test etc. regardless of what i do it still hits limp mode at these certain speeds when running 15 or 16psi boost

1800 rpm and accelerate through to 3500 rpm.- this is hard to do in an auto that likes to jump around a bit haha.

Should mention im running the billet demon pro turbo along with a diesel power chip and ad one point had 18psi max running flawlessly and responded very well at 18psi.

if i drop max boost down to 12/13 psi i dont get any limp mode issues under any circumstances but i also notice the performance drop off so trying to find that happy medium.
appreciate everyone input.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sn5013

Hi mate, what you just mentioned to do is exactly what i did to set the tillix when first installed, it ran great.
have since added the new air box and got limp issues so i went through the tillix install and re-did everything including setting the actuator arm, max boost, running all new hosing, boost leak test etc. regardless of what i do it still hits limp mode at these certain speeds when running 15 or 16psi boost

1800 rpm and accelerate through to 3500 rpm.- this is hard to do in an auto that likes to jump around a bit haha.

Should mention im running the billet demon pro turbo along with a diesel power chip and ad one point had 18psi max running flawlessly and responded very well at 18psi.

if i drop max boost down to 12/13 psi i dont get any limp mode issues under any circumstances but i also notice the performance drop off so trying to find that happy medium.
appreciate everyone input.

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So any changes to induction will impact on rate of spool up (eg: speed that the turbine will spin up and can cause an over boost situation).

I have ECPT remap (postal & several live tunes), procharge stage3 h/F turbo, full NADS, max boost 27psi, T&F JT cooler, 4"induction / 9" pod filter and no limp issues. Adjusted actuator rod to improve spool up low down to suit my setup (many hrs of live testing).

So how did you adjust your actuator rod: direction/how much/current "Hg for lever to hit stop? Need to know of your experience and what you have observed.

Suggest you work up boost from 12/13 psi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sn5013

Hi mate, what you just mentioned to do is exactly what i did to set the tillix when first installed, it ran great.
have since added the new air box and got limp issues so i went through the tillix install and re-did everything including setting the actuator arm, max boost, running all new hosing, boost leak test etc. regardless of what i do it still hits limp mode at these certain speeds when running 15 or 16psi boost

1800 rpm and accelerate through to 3500 rpm.- this is hard to do in an auto that likes to jump around a bit haha.

Should mention im running the billet demon pro turbo along with a diesel power chip and ad one point had 18psi max running flawlessly and responded very well at 18psi.

if i drop max boost down to 12/13 psi i dont get any limp mode issues under any circumstances but i also notice the performance drop off so trying to find that happy medium.
appreciate everyone input.

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Ok so your well past what stock ECU can handle.
Imo throw that chip in the bin before you do damage. All they do is ramp pressure up.

Back to basics but how long since you've cleaned the maf sensor?

And can you check maf voltage? You may have an issue with it but there an expensive part. Only buy genuine maf sensor..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Sorry all, havnt been online much latley..

bigguwesty-
I dont run the chip full time, mainly only plugged in when going offroad and watning the bit of extra power, funnily it seams this helps with limp mode a little when its plugged in.
Maf sensor is cleaned every 5000, currently i dont have a way to read maf voltage live but will be getting an ECUtalk soon to monitor a few things. trying to find someone with a spare MAF so i can do a test and tick that off as a problem.

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Originally Posted by sn5013

So the HPD maf mousing helped the limp issue?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mudski

Uhm, yep!

Dont even bother piss farting around trying to tune out limp mode. Your seriously flogging a dead horse. Either put a resistor inline on the MAF, buy the HPD MAF housing or get some sort of chippy plug in device to get rid of limp. Seriously...

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Been there and done that with the exact same model as yours. Once you get rid of it, boost away. Theres more power to be had over 16psi. I had dyno results showing it.