right advise to my son

need help to try and give the right advise as much as possible to my son...it is not relevant to patrol but still relevant to all engines I would say , plus i think to just confirm my own line of thinking since it has been quite a while since i built a motor...he is 17 and a half , is interstate (hence I cant get there) and has bought himself a HQ 202 1 tonner ute...he is playing around with it and learning as he goes on a second year apprentice wage while he is fixing the minor things needed for roadworthy before he registers it once he gets his licence...
my phone bill is now astronomical !!!l lol

he said the oil is now extremely milky ...was not previously though...he had given it an oil change and new filter when he got it home..(about 4 months ago)...
It is my understanding that motors that do a lot of short runs suffer from oil dilution. Every cold start puts water and fuel into the sump and that the motor is dependent on hot runs to make this evaporate out. ...I have been told that engine oil can take up to 15 mins to reach a temperature high enough to evaporate out water. If the engine oil does not become hot enough a mixture of oil and water will develop within the motor .?
he is panicking now because his mates of the same age are telling him the head is cracked or the head gasket is stuffed etc because of the milky oil...which is what i would initially think and he feels that he may just need to put another motor into it ...(yeh well we know who will need to help pay for that ! )...there goes part of my build on the GQ ..:
But I suspect he is starting it up all the time just to hear it running , driving it up and down the drive etc (as we all did at that age)..and that it may be related to just the short motor running time and not getting hot enough over the last few months ?....he also has the problem of carbon deposits coming from the exhaust at start ups as mentioned in a previous post here and the water coming out of the exhaust...I initially put that down to it sitting and the cold climate ...being in Melbourne

So my question is ...could I be right with the consistant short cold starts I suspect coupled with condensation from the cold weather or could it actually be possible that it is head related ? which seems strange if the car doesnt move out of the driveway...if I was there I would just change the oil and take it on a half hour hot run and see what happens but that is not possible.
cheers Menace

If the oil is now EXTREMELY milky, I would suspect a head gasket, or loose head bolts. Get him to run the engine with the radiator cap off. ( with the engine colds of course). After the initial few bubbles, If he gets a strong, steady stream of bubbles, it indicates high pressure air getting into the cooling system. Also, ask him how much water the engine is using. Some of the older systems only have an outlet pipe, so use a smidgen of water every time they get up to temp.

I would be more inclined to say head related

How milky is the oil? I would be more inclined to say it is a build of condensation from sitting around and not getting hot. He will need to check the water level and then in turn the oil level to see if they are changing to indicate a blown head gasket. If he dosen't know what he is looking for in regards to bubbles in the radiator, he may mis diagnose that it is a head gasket. Engines aren't prone to blowing head gaskets sitting in the carport/driveway. Hoping that the bloke he bought it off didn't change the oil and filter and give it a clean out prior to him buying it.
My thoughts anyway. Maybe he asks one of the mechanics at work to have a look at it for him?

202 were prone to popping piston tops off,
But from symptoms would lean towards head gasket

I had an old vb commodore as my first car, had to pull head off and get a burnt out valve replaced, new head gasket etc. might pay to do a compression test as well. I think it was number 5 or 6 cylinder on mine that had the problems, low compression etc, when I took it to the head shop fella there said it was common problem on them.


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Originally Posted by menace 2

need help to try and give the right advise as much as possible to my son...it is not relevant to patrol but still relevant to all engines I would say , plus i think to just confirm my own line of thinking since it has been quite a while since i built a motor...he is 17 and a half , is interstate (hence I cant get there) and has bought himself a HQ 202 1 tonner ute...he is playing around with it and learning as he goes on a second year apprentice wage while he is fixing the minor things needed for roadworthy before he registers it once he gets his licence...
my phone bill is now astronomical !!!l lol

he said the oil is now extremely milky ...was not previously though...he had given it an oil change and new filter when he got it home..(about 4 months ago)...
It is my understanding that motors that do a lot of short runs suffer from oil dilution. Every cold start puts water and fuel into the sump and that the motor is dependent on hot runs to make this evaporate out. ...I have been told that engine oil can take up to 15 mins to reach a temperature high enough to evaporate out water. If the engine oil does not become hot enough a mixture of oil and water will develop within the motor .?
he is panicking now because his mates of the same age are telling him the head is cracked or the head gasket is stuffed etc because of the milky oil...which is what i would initially think and he feels that he may just need to put another motor into it ...(yeh well we know who will need to help pay for that ! )...there goes part of my build on the GQ ..:
But I suspect he is starting it up all the time just to hear it running , driving it up and down the drive etc (as we all did at that age)..and that it may be related to just the short motor running time and not getting hot enough over the last few months ?....he also has the problem of carbon deposits coming from the exhaust at start ups as mentioned in a previous post here and the water coming out of the exhaust...I initially put that down to it sitting and the cold climate ...being in Melbourne

So my question is ...could I be right with the consistant short cold starts I suspect coupled with condensation from the cold weather or could it actually be possible that it is head related ? which seems strange if the car doesnt move out of the driveway...if I was there I would just change the oil and take it on a half hour hot run and see what happens but that is not possible.
cheers Menace

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If there is a slight build up of milky residue on the oil cap that would be from condensation, if the oil level on the dipstick is rising and the color of the oil has a latte type of look to the oil it could be a blown head gasket but being a cast iron head they don't necessarily crack.

Being a HQ the radiator system should be a non recovery type so the water level should sit half way up the top tank but saying that some one may have upgraded the system to have a overflow bottle and recovery type cap, in that case it should be to the top of the radiator.

Condensation from the exhaust is normal for carby cars but at operating temperature it should clear up. The carbon deposits will be from the choke being on, on start up. If the mixtures are adjusted correctly after a good drive on the freeway it should have more of a greyish color untill the next start up.


What area in Melbourne is your son mate ?? I could possibly have a look and let you know whats going on inside the motor if you like ??

thanks to all for the replies ...very much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Alitis007

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Being a HQ the radiator system should be a non recovery type so the water level should sit half way up the top tank but saying that some one may have upgraded the system to have a overflow bottle and recovery type cap, in that case it should be to the top of the radiator.

What area in Melbourne is your son mate ?? I could possibly have a look and let you know whats going on inside the motor if you like ??

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yes Alitis the radiator system is a non return (no overflow bottle)...
He lives in Lilydale..so if anyone is close then I am quite happy to pay for a diagnosis for him...he knows all there is to know about what fits and what doesnt etc with 1 tonners but mechanically at this stage not so savvy....I have flown him up to the gold coast while I am here for this weekend ..pick him up tonight so he wouldnt be back there until monday...I will be getting a more informative knowledge of the symptoms as best as he can explain it..if lilydale is far away then thanks for your generous offer with your time anyway Alitis..appreciated heaps.

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trekster
I had an old vb commodore as my first car, had to pull head off and get a burnt out valve replaced, new head gasket etc. might pay to do a compression test as well. I think it was number 5 or 6 cylinder on mine that had the problems, low compression etc, when I took it to the head shop fella there said it was common problem on them.

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yes it could be quite anything at the moment treckster..if I was down there or more importantly , he was up here with the car , I could do all that for him ....he doesnt really have the knowledge or all the appropriate tools to go that major...hence if it is that deep then I would just get another motor (long) and feel it would be easier for him to just have a go at putting that in himself ....cheers

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threedogs
202 were prone to popping piston tops off,
But from symptoms would lean towards head gasket

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Yeh I thought anything that internal would be making some noise
In regards to the gasket TD , Nissannewby , same answer as to Treckster...
Cheers

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mudnut
If the oil is now EXTREMELY milky, I would suspect a head gasket, or loose head bolts. Get him to run the engine with the radiator cap off. ( with the engine colds of course). After the initial few bubbles, If he gets a strong, steady stream of bubbles, it indicates high pressure air getting into the cooling system. Also, ask him how much water the engine is using. Some of the older systems only have an outlet pipe, so use a smidgen of water every time they get up to temp.

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I went through that process with him on the phone regarding the rad/cap etc...I dont think he knew what he was looking for..I will go through it again when he gets here....yes apparently it is really milky....cheers Mudnut


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Wazza_66
How milky is the oil? I would be more inclined to say it is a build of condensation from sitting around and not getting hot. He will need to check the water level and then in turn the oil level to see if they are changing to indicate a blown head gasket. If he dosen't know what he is looking for in regards to bubbles in the radiator, he may mis diagnose that it is a head gasket. Engines aren't prone to blowing head gaskets sitting in the carport/driveway. Hoping that the bloke he bought it off didn't change the oil and filter and give it a clean out prior to him buying it.
My thoughts anyway. Maybe he asks one of the mechanics at work to have a look at it for him?

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I agree Wazza...thats why I am confused...the prior owner...? possible...my son did his own changes etc when he got it home so I will see if he remembers what the oil looked like !...he doesnt work as a mechanic...he is an apprentice boiler-maker (my future bar maker lolol)..cheers

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Originally Posted by menace 2

yes Alitis the radiator system is a non return (no overflow bottle)...
He lives in Lilydale..so if anyone is close then I am quite happy to pay for a diagnosis for him...he knows all there is to know about what fits and what doesnt etc with 1 tonners but mechanically at this stage not so savvy....I have flown him up to the gold coast while I am here for this weekend ..pick him up tonight so he wouldnt be back there until monday...I will be getting a more informative knowledge of the symptoms as best as he can explain it..if lilydale is far away then thanks for your generous offer with your time anyway Alitis..appreciated heaps.

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Lilydale is a bit of a drive but if he can wait a few weeks i can go for a drive and have a look for you.

Being a P plater soon he can't put in a v8 untill he is fully licensed, assuming he wants a253, 308 or 350 but what he can do ( also assuming the head gasket has failed ) is get a head from a VH with the blue 202 which is a yella terra head with roller rockers and upgrade the dizzy from points to electric from a VK ( he will also need to run a relay to the coil so it has 12V) and if he can find an efi setup from a VK will give it a bit more go and alot better economy unless he wants a triple webber set up like the XU1. BUT he should change the fibre timing gears with steel ones coz the originals tend to sheer teeth when they are accompanied with heavy right foot.

Providing the bottom end has good compression it will be better to fix the head rather than finding a second hand long motor with an unknown history and the chance of buying some one else's head ach.