Forgot to mention, on our trip to USA they all supercharge them apparently and rarely turbo.
We ran out of time to find any "experts" on the engine but this was the general norm in asking people we saw had them in their cars.
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Forgot to mention, on our trip to USA they all supercharge them apparently and rarely turbo.
We ran out of time to find any "experts" on the engine but this was the general norm in asking people we saw had them in their cars.
I wanted to supercharge mine but was told that to suprecharge it, I would not only need a supercharger but new heads as well as the heads couldn't handle the heat/pressure... Simply became too costly to change...besides, for that money, I'd rather get portal axles.Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
ET - can I ask what normal running temp readings are you getting on your Engine Guardian? What sort of ranges are you seeing and what is your alarm set at?
Last Q first;Quote:
Originally Posted by FNQGU
I have my Engine Coolant thermocouple attached to a bolt on the outlet housing
I have the initial warning set to 85 degrees
The G'box thermocouple is attached to a bolt on the G'box oil pan
The cooling fans on the Tranny Oil Coolers are set to come on at 75 degrees with a manual override if I want them continuous
That alarms are set for an initial warning at 90 degrees
Normal temps and ranges are hard to specify as it varies so much depending on what I am doing, ambient temperature etc
Around town with no load maybe 60 to 70 at the most for both
Towing maybe 70 to 95 G'box and 75 to 100 Engine but they aren't related IE if it is hot, terrain is undulating and the TC is locked then engine will be high in the range and G'box low to mid range.
If it is hilly and TC unlocked then engine temps drop maybe 5 to 10 and G'box rises maybe 15 to 20.
4x4 work they are all over the range.
I have checked the accuracy with a laser temp gun and both agree within a degree or so.
Obviously the thermocouples are not measuring the temps of the Coolant and Tranny Oil.
If there were temp probes in the fluids the figures would be different.
That is OK with me because I am using the watchdog as an operating alarm so to speak.
If one wanted a watchdog to directly monitor fluids then you need different thermocouples and sampling points.
So you set the second Engine Guardian sensor to the Tranny and don't utilise the tranny temp reading on the Compushift II? Is there a reason you chose that? I generally keep a close eye on the Compushift readings for temp but to be honest I am not exactly sure where that sender unit is located. I had assumed it was in the pan.
I was half thinking of linking the second sensor to the Oil Pressure, as although I would prefer a separate gauge, I don't have a nice neat place to put one.
Thanks for the info on temps too. Will give me something to compare.
I am not running a Compushift but would be keen to know what fluid temps you are seeing.
My TCU is a GM Supermatic
The watchdog I have installed has 3 inputs, 1 and 2 are thermocouple and 3 is switched.
1 and 2 are the Gearbox and Engine temps and 3 is the Engine low oil pressure
All 3 can be used to automatically switch relays/fans/whatever
All 3 can be programmed for audible alarms as well as visual
My TF temps will sit around 80-87c once warmed up and just driving around town etc. On a Highway run with TC locked it can sit in the low 70's to low 80's.
On my recent run up the Creb Track in hot weather, and after a lonnnnnggggg steep climb in Low 2nd, it rose to 97c, which to me is getting on the hot side. I have two coolers, but to be honest, one of them is badly positioned and I am going to move it when I get back. I am also going to fit cooling fans on both. Should have done it in the first place but Wholesale Automatics assured me I would not need them....(maybe in Victoria!). I also have the Nissan box, just with the Nomad Valve Body and some upgraded friction plates, and it has less TF volume than the Chev Auto by a couple of litres.
I was looking at that link you posted to your Watchdog/Guardian (whatever they call themselves) and was considering the same unit, only with two sensors instead of three. I was also half thinking about the Engine Saver low-coolant alarm that some others have fitted, but haven't made any final decisions on either or both together.
Yeah, those temps kinda gel with mine.
I admit I don't pay all that much attention as I rely on the alarms and if the alarms aren't going I just boogie along doing whatever I'm doing
If you can already monitor your Tranny temp in some way shape or form then I agree and wouldn't bother with a 3 channel watch dog.
I like your idea the two channel unit for monitoring the engine as it will do temp and oil press.
I thought about the low coolant alarm but decided against it because you don't necessarily have low coolant before you begin to cook an engine.
No biggee tho... they all work
My old man had a recom 6.5ltr put in nad after a year had to have it replaced.
Thanks Ricky....
No idea what you are referring to.
ahhhh... setting new lowest standards for a post to get the manuals.
Has anyone had one of these engines on a dyno?
Ok, so I have finally gotten around to getting my tranny coolers re-positioned and a big ass thermo fan installed, and yes it seems to make a huge difference. The coolers are the ones supplied by Wholesale Automatics and are made by PWR. Nothing special really, they are thin but fairly large. Due to a lack of space in front of the radiator, I had previously mounted one in front and one slightly lower, more directly behind the winch, and temps were still a bit high.
I now have the two coolers mounted back to back with a fan pushing air through them. Looks like this:
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjhvxw0a9.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psuuo763qb.jpg
First install of the thermo fan was behind the coolers, and pulling air through, however I think because they are mounted together this wasn't working very well. Mounting the fan in front saw an 8 degree drop in temps comparatively.
At the moment, the thermo fan runs constantly from startup and is fitted with a shut off switch on the dash in case of a deep water crossing. The shut off switch has a nice bright blue LED in it which illuminates when off, just in case I forget to turn it back on. I may yet change this around and run the thermo off a temp sensor but this is it for the time being.
I also fitted up one of the Aussie made Engine Watchdog's, the TM4 version with the twin sensors and oil pressure alarm. This little unit is just sitting on the dash at the moment until I decide where I finally want it.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbdpfegcn.jpg
The transmission sensor is positioned on the back of the pan.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0rhjwtkz.jpg
My first test run saw the tranny temps between the Engine Watchdog readings and the Compushift II showing some big differences and I am trying to work out why. The watchdog sensor would have a reading of say 60 degrees, and the Compushift would be reading 76 degrees. A whopping big difference. I can understand that the internals of the box, or the fluid itself would be hotter perhaps than the base of the transmission, but 16 degrees difference seems like a lot to me. If anyone can shed any light on this I would be keen to listen. I am hoping that the sensor location is ok.
Previous runs at this same location used to see transmission temp readings on the Compushift get to around 93 degrees. This time, it got to 80 degrees with the watchdog only reading 63 degrees. A huge drop in temps. Now I am wondering what the optimal temperatures are for the transmission, and whether this is even a fraction too low?
80 degrees fluid temp is OK.
The watchdog thermocouple won't read anything like the same as the Compushift temps.
One is fluid temp, the other is whatever heatsoak has gotten to the edge of the pan flange.
Thanks. Tranny temps now seem really good.
Engine temps around town are sitting between 91 and 97 degrees, and climbing to 103 degrees when worked a bit going up the range. I wouldn't mind getting these down a bit too. I think that the location of the tranny coolers might be restricting air flow through the radiator a little too much. Another headache...
Just seen an F350 with a 6.7l turbo'd engine and running a 4in exhaust. I got told ages ago to fit one and promptly forgot about it. Mine's got a 3in exhaust.... Is there much, if any, benefit in changing up to a 4in exhaust?
Not with our little motors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko17
I looked at that, but was told there wasn't the room in the engine bay with the Chev in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko17
I have seen it done with the 6.5s the 6.2s but not on a GU
4" is doable and if applicable then do it. The least amount of back pressure after a turbo the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
True... esp with the free running turbosQuote:
Originally Posted by nissannewby
There is a bloke, who lives fairly close to me, that has a GQ ute, with a 6.5l Chev, running twin turbos and a 4in exhaust. Sounds absolutely insane! Am I right in thinking that the GQ's had more room under the bonnet? I seem to remember a shite load of room in my old 4.2l GQ, but as FNQGU says, I have bugger all room under the bonnet of my GU, and so don't think a 4in would fit.
Has anyone put a P400 into a patrol?
Just wondering if the revised oilpan fits.
Also, I have not seen a rear turbo setup as well, is this due to the dashpanel clearance?
If there is anyone in the Melbourne area with a 6.5, I'd like to have a look at the install, I'm in Ferntree Gully
cheers
If you speak to Graham at Gryphon Engineering in Cairns he'd know. As a matter of interest, he is putting twin turbo's on his own 6.5 Chev at the moment. He has a beaut 80 Series in black. Twin exhaust and twin stainless snorkels too. Amusingly he has had to rip out the Toyota diffs and put in Nissan diffs and axles. The truck isn't yet on the road as work keeps slowing things up, but it will be interesting to see how it goes when he is done.
I am still having overheating issues with my Chev cooling system, and now it is getting frustrating as I just thought that I had it sorted.
At the end of the day, I am starting to think that I have too much shit in front of the aircon condenser and the radiator, and that this particular design of radiator is not able to cope.
For the last few months I have been running a solid spacer from the engine to the radiator fan, and this has worked well, keeping running temps down in the low to mid 80's. Yesterday I finally swapped back to a brand new viscous hub, and straight away the temps soared back to the 100 degree mark, on a reasonably cool day (26 C) in an unloaded vehicle. WTF?
In short, I don't want to run a solid fan spacer-block as the solution. And it makes the obvious conclusion that the viscous hub doesn't draw as much air through the radiator as the solid block. In my mind, this means that the radiator, is not up to the job. I have had it (only done 30k) and the block flushed (with a LOT of shit being removed) and the coolant all replaced and yet it made no difference.
I also removed my Hella spotlights from in front of the grill, and have made sure that all the shrouds are in place. Thermostats are good, and I am not sure what else I can try other than replacing the radiator for something with a core that is better at cooling with a lower air flow?
In front of my radiator I have the standard Nissan aircon condenser, plus a transmission cooler, oil cooler and the power steering cooler. Added up, this takes up a lot of real estate! Previously (before I changed over to an Auto transmission and added the tranny cooler), I had a thermo fan blowing air into the condenser. Everything else was the same, although at the time I still had overheating problems in really hot FNQ weather, which would result in the aircon cutting out. Now that I have the Engine Watchdog on it, I can clearly see the temps and don't let it get this high. I have noted that the aircon will add up between 5 and 7 degrees to the running temp of the engine too.
I have now consulted with an Air conditioning specialist and a radiator specialist and both don't like the restrictions in front of the radiator, but particularly the tranny cooler. The trouble is that both acknowledge that there isn't really a better place to put it.
There have also been comments made that the inlet and outlet to the radiator should preferably be on opposite sides as this enhances cooling efficiency of the radiator. Unfortunately this would mean some hose re-routing and mods to the thermostat housing.
What has now been proposed (if money was not an issue) is to replace the radiator core with a more efficient one, with inlet and outlet on opposite sides, plus include the transmission cooler into the new radiator, plus change the thermostats to a version with a lower opening temp (currently 86*). This isn't a cheap option however, and I am wary of spending this sort of coin.
Locally, Gryphon Engineering here in Cairns have told me that they have five other trucks currently booked in for overheating problem rectifications, and all have the same radiator. Of interest, none of the conversions done here by Gryphon have overheating issues, and he did eighteen of them last year, each with the more efficient radiator setup compared to the one done at Brunnies (where mine was done). At the moment, there is a beaut truck in there where a bloke is driving his handicapped son around Oz, that has only done 4k on the engine and it is has had the radiator pulled twice since being converted! Now, I am not pointing the finger at Brunnies, and their radiator is huge, but WTF! I don't get it.
Do you have a pic of the radiator or is there one on here somewhere on here?
Sorry, I don't have a pic of it out of the vehicle, but is three core, inlet and outlet on the drivers side with a baffle running horizontal for three quarters of the way across the mid-section (or so I am told). The baffle directs flow across the top half of the radiator and then down, and back to the outlet. I am told it is made at Brunswick Diesels, but not sure who makes the core itself.
I might be pulling it out on Monday at Pacific Radiators to re-examine the whole set up more closely, so will take some pics if we do.
Is the baffle like another tube or a smaller tank which then leads to the bottom half of the core?
Sorry Matt, I'll have to get an accurate description to answer that with confidence. Unless someone else knows the layout... I just know that the flow is directed across the top half, then drops down and runs back through the lower half to the outlet.
If is just a baffle then what the water will actually do is just find the easiest path which will be straight across the top tank down to the lower half and out the outlet so only cooling a fraction of the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by FNQGU
When the inlet and outlet are diagonally opposed then the cooling can be far more efficient due to pressure/temp differentials.
Do you have bash plates installed below engine, if so are they perforated?
Thanks Matt, this is the same advice I am getting up here.
Nightjar - I have a Bushskins steering guard and the standard Nissan front radiator guard thing, that yes has big holes in it.
Ok, it's been a while and I've made some changes and am still experiencing engine temperatures that are high. Frustratingly high.
In summary - I have the Chev 6.5TD with a modified Nissan Auto (fully rebuilt with HD friction plates and Nomad valve body by Wholesale Automatics), twin transmission coolers with electric fan on them, and an oil cooler also (recently) with an added electric fan on it. I spent a lot of time talking with Richard at ARE out of Brisbane and with a Cairns radiator specialist (who knows 4wdrives on the Cape) and eventually i forked out $1300 to change to a 3-core Copper/Brass dimpled tube radiator, and....it made no difference at all.
This setup will overheat on the first big hill IF it is run with the normal viscous coupling on the radiator fan. If I put a solid block spacer in place instead of the viscous coupling (an expensive Brunswick bandaid), then it will usually run at quite good temperatures (78' - 85'C), UNTIL the ambient air temp rises to about 34'C - 35'C, which it does right through summer up here. At this point it will get hot if working the engine hard, or towing a load up a reasonable hill with the airconditioning on. If I switch the aircon off, it will drop 7 to 8 degrees C on average and working it hard up that same hill won't be an issue. Try that with the viscous coupling back in place and I'd get a quarter of the way up the hill before the temp needle starts climbing dangerously towards the red.
I've also pulled the radiator twice and backflushed the engine block each time with no real improvement. Coolant mix ratio's are correct and coolants haven't been mixed.
I recently moved the oil cooler (ADRAD plate and bar type) out from in front of the condenser and put it lower down behind the bull-bar with an electric fan on it. I did this because temps on the oil cooler were in the mid-90's (temp gun reading) and it had to be sending hot air straight back into the radiator. Basically, just trying to eliminate another factor i suppose. I then stuck a 12" electric fan in front of the condenser (where the oil cooler had been) and it made no difference, although I didn't expect it to.
I then removed the bullbar and winch and front grille completely and ran it up the same hill, and BINGO - no overheating! This was with the viscous coupling on of course. Stick the bullbar and winch back on, and straight back to the redline! It appears that airflow through the radiator is the overall issue right? I don't have a big-arse set of spot lights in the way either. Besides the winch control box, it is as open as it can be, with only a lightbar level with the top of the bullbar.
So, I have had numerous calls with Brunswick Diesel over the last xx months/years and they advise that they fit this solid spacer to ALL the automatic versions of this conversion that they do to Nissan Patrols. Mine is nothing special. Really??!! I am struggling with that concept. My small brain does not comprehend why such a band-aid fix is the recommended answer to this problem. I was told that I'd just have to live with it, as the cost to try and rectify it is simply going to grow and might not make any difference anyway. Gryphon engineering here in Cairns who also do these conversions, have also run out of ideas and are basically going along with it, although they were one of several who recommended the radiator change...
The downside of this solid spacer is that my fuel economy since fitting it has risen from 14.5/100 to 19.3/100 or worse. I'm also nervous about every puddle I drive through on the Cape as I don't want the fan to drive itself into the back of the radiator, and, it just seems ridiculous that this is the answer.
My transmission temps are great by the way, usually in the high 70's, but will climb into the late 80's if the engine is running hot. i had considered that the coolers in front of the condenser were my main problem, but compared to the oil cooler temps, they run cold. Besides that, I am out of ideas as to where else I could put them anyway.
I also have considered the option of spending another grand or more and going to twin thermo fans and a custom shroud. Funny this, but some recommend it and others are dead against it. Brunswick said it wouldn't help and so did Gryphon Engineering, basically saying that the fan already in place pulls more air than the electric system would. I would however 'like' to be able to turn them off for water crossings, but that is just a 'nice to have' I suppose.
Should I be looking at the Water Pump? I'm told it is the High Flow version that was the 'fix' to this original overheating issue but haven't yet pulled it off.
Both Thermostat's are brand new also, and are rated to 71'C.
So, before i start cutting holes in the bonnet and fitting the vents I had been previously investigating, can anyone else point me at a solution?
I think you have sussed it ben when you said removing everything from the front equalled no cooling problems. So you need to increase surface area that sees airflow.
Is the radiator your using just a wide style patrol item?
The earlier style systems seem to be prone to heating problems in the patrol. The chevs are a hotter engine as such.
Im surprised the thermostats are the same temp setting. I would have thought a staggered setup would be much more stable.
Do no cut holes in the bonnet. I dont believe it will solve your problem. As in the first paragraph mate you need more surface area for the air flow to act on.
Can you post a few detailed pics of your setup please?
The radiator WAS the standard Brunswick custom install, which is pretty bloody huge. I replaced the core in it with the above mentioned version for no real improvement.
Previous thermostats were rated higher. Low 80's C from memory. I replaced both when I found one was not opening properly. Pics to come... thanks Matt.
Ok, a couple of the front BEFORE I moved the Oil Cooler.
Drivers side
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswpa9epez.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psacx1yn2i.jpg
The oil cooler has been removed and relocated. The P/S cooler is still in the same place now.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbs3kr7pb.jpg
Passengers side.
Below is Drivers side NOW. I even temporarily hooked up a 12" electric fan here to blow onto the condenser, but it really made no difference whether it was there or not. Wiring hasn't yet been tidied up...
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psdj1wkckt.jpg
This is where I dropped the oil cooler down to. Passengers side, behind the bullbar. More just an experiment really and probably not where I would like to leave it as it is still likely susceptible to damage if I hit a roo or something.
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8lnwcfrd.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...psq6vobecf.jpg
Beneath...
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3igajofu.jpg
You certianly dont have a lot of room for free air to the radiator.
I have a '99 Ute and it seems to run with no overheating issues at all.
Brunnies did the 6.5TD in Dec 2012 for prev owner
I got them to convert the 5 speed to a crate 4L85 auto (Chevy Suburban et al) in early 2014.
It still has the viscous fan and the 'original' Brunnies Rad (huge Mofo) and thermostats (temp unknown)
The twin tranny coolers are under the tray
Twin IPF spotties on a custom bar in front of the standard series 1 grille
Is the front bar a little more forgiving in the flow department than what ben has pictured.