Let's Get Smart

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Originally Posted by Finly Owner

My argument to that, is what cost is a life?


Tim

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Hmmmm ... Hitler? Not much .... the Pope? A little more ... My kids, family and friends? Priceless!!

You can't mandate against human nature. In everything there are idiots and there are people out to make money (and don't care how) and there are people who care.
I think as a society we need to take responsibility of our own actions.
We expect others to tell us what to do, so when things go wrong we can then blame someone else!!

Like what has already been said there is plenty of info in books, magazines, forums, 4WD Clubs etc.

But in having said all that I have been involved in a recovery, where the guy was not an idiot, the right equipment was used but testosterone took over.

I have done all the above read books, subscribe to a 4WD mag, joined a 4WD club and nearly finished a 4WD Training course through the DTU yet the guy would not listen to what I said as I am of the fairer sex!! No one got hurt (lucky), the car got out (of cause) and he was the man!! (............!)

So how do you mandate against that??


Snicko

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Originally Posted by snicko

You can't mandate against human nature. In everything there are idiots and there are people out to make money (and don't care how) and there are people who care.
I think as a society we need to take responsibility of our own actions.
We expect others to tell us what to do, so when things go wrong we can then blame someone else!!

Like what has already been said there is plenty of info in books, magazines, forums, 4WD Clubs etc.

But in having said all that I have been involved in a recovery, where the guy was not an idiot, the right equipment was used but testosterone took over.

I have done all the above read books, subscribe to a 4WD mag, joined a 4WD club and nearly finished a 4WD Training course through the DTU yet the guy would not listen to what I said as I am of the fairer sex!! No one got hurt (lucky), the car got out (of cause) and he was the man!! (............!)

So how do you mandate against that??


Snicko

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YA DON"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tim

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Originally Posted by Finly Owner

Comments & Recommendations :

It is also clear from the evidence before me that both Mr Radford and Mr Williams were not aware of the dangers of attaching snatch straps to tow balls when completing recovery operations.

Having considered all the material before me I recommend that the motoring public, particularly those using 4WD vehicles be made aware and reminded of the dangers of using snatch straps in recovery operations. It is important to correctly attach (following the manufacturers recommendations) the recovery strap to a motor vehicle. A standard tow ball or vehicle tie-down point is not designed for this purpose and may result in the strap or a vehicle component detaching from a motor vehicle and striking and seriously injuring or killing a person. Only attach the strap to a vehicle recovery point or device that is suitably rated for use with the strap.

My Thought s on all this and the ongoing debates on our forum about recovery point, gear, and methods are this:

Although this is still open to some interpretation, and debate about what is safe, we need a great forum like this and unite clubs and forums on what is the consensus of WHAT IS SAFE AND WHAT IS NOT! Take away the emotion, the personal opion, the cost, and come up with something that we as a community can agree on, and maybe even get the final decision mandated by our law makers.

Then that will put an end to fitting of illegal devices on 4WD from accessories outlets. And maybe then we can get it taken further and have pressure put on Vehicle Manufactuers to cease suppling unacceptable devices on new 4WDs.

It is about time we used forums like this to take steps to really save lives. I for one believe in people power. How many of you are sick of sending more tragic reminders of how not to recover your mate?

I am not sure how to start a petiton, but I know how to sign one electronically. A petiton must have a genuine cause that offers a change that is of benefit to a large majority. It is offered to local Government for discussion and if passed is on to state government. If it gets passed there it goes to Federal Government where it open for discussion. Unless you can short cut and speak to a Federal Government Member who is not already against recreational vehicles.

I believe we must come a decision NOW, and then ask for input from desirable clubs and forums, no matter what make of 4WD they represent. Advise them of our plan, ask them if they would be interested in passing around our petition.

Obviously 4WD magazines and shows would not help with this as it would be detrimental to their sponsors.

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I think that the easiest and cheapest solution to this from an administrative/legalistic point of view would be to ban snatch straps, and therefore I suggest not poking a stick at this particular wasp nest.

I don't think vehicle manufacturers are ever going to be definitive about what is safe and what is not as it is not really in their interests. There are too many variables over which they have no control. Easier for them to say 'Snatch recoveries are not permissable with this vehicle' and then anyone who does so, carries the risk.

On a recent DVD accompanying a national 4wd mag I saw a full si2e 4by snatched while bogged to the chassis in quick sand. It seemed to me that more than the usually prescribed run up and speed were used, but all went well. Perhaps it was all done in accordance with best practice. What sort of message does that send to the uninformed Joe public.

A thought provoking issue you raise Master Finly Owner :-)

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Originally Posted by Finly Owner

My argument to that, is what cost is a life?


Tim

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death and injury are budgetted for all the time - in the construction industry, in the health industry and elsewhere. For business risk to human life is just one more cost to be managed.

Silver did you put your name on the voting poll??

materials we purchase for recovery need to of be a set standard (make it impossible to purchase any crap)
it would be impossible to regulate what one carrys in a vehicle for recover ect
only people like us here would follow some rules
the average joe blow dont give a flying .................

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Originally Posted by snicko

Silver did you put your name on the voting poll??

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Can't remember that I voted snicko. Dilema - should I vote now, and risk the integrity of the entire process, or......
Anyhoo, I would have voted self regulation

I would also suggest a good deal of caution in recovering people who don't at least have their own gear - as I suspect they are the ones more likely to sue the pants off a good samaritan if something goes wrong, since they don't understand the risks and/or are too slack to get their own gear.

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Originally Posted by nowoolies

materials we purchase for recovery need to of be a set standard (make it impossible to purchase any crap)
it would be impossible to regulate what one carrys in a vehicle for recover ect
only people like us here would follow some rules
the average joe blow dont give a flying .................

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Still love Marvin!

I had in my hot little hand a rated shackle in a major auto chain store in Qld. the thread on the pin was too small to engage the thread in the shackle.

I suppose it may have performed as rated. Or not. Hardly confidence inspiring :-) It is possible to purchase rated crap.

my 2c worth:devilred:, we already live in an over regulated country now, you can't possibly save every idiot out there( it's natural selection(which our gov frowns on:spammouth:) and should be left to their own stupidity:icon_bonk:) that said, they usually try to take someone else out with them. so you can never underestimate the level they can fall to. hence the need to use your own common sense for your own safety.:jawdrop:

I've said for years now(showing my age now:rolleyes:) that defensive driving should be mandatory when people go for there licence, and there should be a 4WD module incorporated into that course:bigthumbup: education is the key, a combination of regulated and self regulated education would probably be the most effective me thinks.

with regards to sales people they should be trained by the compony that they work for and the industry already has regulations that should cover their legal obligations for duty of care to customers.

just my 2c worth :icon_bonk:

troy